Need 4 Door Hatch Advice

[nissangirl74]

I'm interested in the Mazda Speed3. For me. I'm tentatively looking for something to replace the Insight. Maybe. I would like to have something other than a coupe. We have ONE vehicle that's not a classic (out of 15) that we can put more than 2 people in and there are 6 of us in the house. I don't need something that seats 6 but something that seats 4-5 would be nice in case three of us want to go somewhere. I don't want to buy a mommy-mobile sedan though. I don't want a minivan, at all. As much as I really like the Pathfinder, it's not practical and it's not what I really want. I like the idea of a sporty four door hatch. The Speed3 is amazing (looking) but I haven't driven one yet. I'd like to know what else I should add to the list. The Focus is out because of zero legroom. As much as I liked it, the only thing riding in that backseat comfortably is Mia. I don't really have a budget in mind yet. I'd rather know what's good / bad first. If I can't swing it, I'll just stick with what I have and save up. Opinions, please and thank you.

[frapjap]

Speed3 is a fantastic car. I know Greg won't allow german pieces of s*** in the driveway, so I'm leaving out the Golf, Mini, etc.
Some ideas that come to mind-

Subaru:
WRX hatch (not a favorite of mine, but falls in your criteria)
'07-'11 Outback Sport

Legacy GT wagon
the new Crosstrek

Mazda:
Mazda Speed6 (it is actually a hatch back)

Honda:
Fit *(add a turbo later)
Accord Crosstour- due to their quirkyness, they can be had for pretty cheap

Volvo:
C30

Porsche (a girl can dream, right?)
Panamera

Ferrari:
FF




Cadillac:
First gen SRX

Hyundai:
Veloster (meh)

[RicerX]

Bang for the buck goes to the Speed3. Only other option hatchback wise to consider is a WRX. Both are up for significant revisions for MY14/15. My advice - drive both. My Speed3 has been a fantastic car so far. Gas mileage has the potential to be wonderful if you learn how to drive it outside of the boost. I consistently get 30MPG between home and Nashville on the interstate. EPA ratings do not at all suggest this, but it is possible. The WRX will not touch that with its AWD and turbo setup.

Rumor about the next Speed3 is it will be a Skyactiv Turbo. That would be killer if they do it right. I haven't heard anything further about it though so it's one of those grain of salt kinda things.

Regarding the Speed6 - really tough to find used, especially used and in good shape. Wicked freakin car though. If you can round up one that hasn't been beaten to crap, I would really consider it.

Nissan has the ... Juke ...

Other than that, I can't think of anything else that would fit in the category.

[Jesda]

Kia Soul is an ideal packaging format for cargo and people but they aren't that interesting to drive. You can get them ridiculously cheap though.

[nissangirl74]

Nissan has the ... Juke ...

Not just "No", but "Hell No"

Nissan currently doesn't build what I want

**just to clarify, it must be a manual**

[Bubba1]

I'm interested in the Mazda Speed3. For me. I'm tentatively looking for something to replace the Insight. Maybe. I would like to have something other than a coupe. We have ONE vehicle that's not a classic (out of 15) that we can put more than 2 people in and there are 6 of us in the house. I don't need something that seats 6 but something that seats 4-5 would be nice in case three of us want to go somewhere. I don't want to buy a mommy-mobile sedan though. I don't want a minivan, at all. As much as I really like the Pathfinder, it's not practical and it's not what I really want. I like the idea of a sporty four door hatch. The Speed3 is amazing (looking) but I haven't driven one yet. I'd like to know what else I should add to the list. The Focus is out because of zero legroom. As much as I liked it, the only thing riding in that backseat comfortably is Mia. I don't really have a budget in mind yet. I'd rather know what's good / bad first. If I can't swing it, I'll just stick with what I have and save up. Opinions, please and thank you.

Methinks if you're looking for something that comfortably holds 4-5, plus has a hatchback for groceries/stuff/pets, I would think you'd want something bigger than a ZoomZoom speed3. Don't get me wrong, they're fun, nice cars, but they're more logical as commuter cars and families with maybe 1 small child. Given the size of your crew, and you're not interested in mid sized utes or big sedans, I would suggest looking at a later model small ute, like a CRV or Rav4. They've not only swelled in size over the years to about the size of a old Pathy/4Runner. They are also hatchbacks, plenty of space behind the rear seats, functional rear seats, reliable, comfortable, and get mid 20's. Are they sporty? No, but neither is an Insight, and these hold a whole lot more.

[WDRacing]

What Joel said. The Speed3 is nice, couple guys on base here have them. I've sat in them and driven them around a bit, nothing extensive, but enough to know that they aren't going to be comfy for 4-5 unless the 4-5 people are young kids in the back, which you don't have.

I love our Dart, but again, we have small kids, so they fit well in the back. If you're going to buy something small, try the Dart anyway, just to give it a fair shake.

For me, I'd buy a mid size something, like the 6speed. I rented a non speed version awhile back and really liked it. My 540 is the smallest car I will ever own as a passenger car for myself. Don't get to caught up on gas mileage. Enjoying the drive trumps mileage completely imho.

[RicerX]

Another thing I forgot to mention - if you want a tad more room, the new Mazda6 with the sport package is available in a 6MT. I think it's one of the few remaining midsize cars to offer three pedals (if not the only one).

[nissangirl74]

I'll go drive the Sport 6 and compare the two. Understand that they'll probably never be more than 4 people in this car. I wouldn't dream of trying to put 5 in it. The center seat in the rear looks to small to even accommodate a child seat. The girls are involved in many activities that I have to drive them to, so often, it's just us 3. It'd also be nice to have something a little more comfortable than the Insight, and something less thirsty than the Frontier, to take on a road trip

I did a comparison between the two on the Mazda website.

Mazda 6 Sport
- $21,675
- 184 hp
- Mileage: 25/37
- rear hip room: 56.1 in
- rear leg room 38.7
- curb weight: 3183

Mazda Speed3
- $24,200
- 263 hp
- Mileage: 18/25
- rear hip room: 52.2
- rear leg room: 36.2
- curb weight: 3281

79 horsepower is a lot to walk away from

[Rex]

I'll always suggest used ... so here it goes.

Mazda6 Wagon or hatch. The wagon was V6 only, the Hatch can be found as such and both were offered with a stick. 5 full size people and stuff can be carried in either.

Volvo V70 or XC70, though the XC was probably never offered with a stick and finding a V70 stick will require and older one or an R version. But it's not German.

Acura TSX wagon, not sure if they offered as a stick but it's possible. And you know Honda reliability is solid.

The Mazda3 is a solid choice, but I think it's going to be similar to the Focus in legroom.

If German was allowed, Audi, BMW & VW have all offered AWD, manual, wagons with either turbo, 8 cylinders or plenty of power.

[Kompresshun]

I could walk away from 79hp for a 7 mpg gain in the city and a 12 mpg on the highway.

I've driven the MS3 and it was fun to drive, but a little too cramped for my liking for a daily driver. I like having an actual trunk and there was not near enough room behind the rear seats in the MS3 to make me happy for a DD. I haul around a large tool bag, a small floor jack, and a large stroller everywhere with me. It could not accommodate that without folding down a seat, so no sale for me.

I think you'd be surprised how much fun the 6 is to drive also. It may be lacking the HP, but anything Mazda makes delivers for the most part. Hell, I even enjoyed the Mazda 5 I drove and it's basically a minivan.

[WDRacing]

MPG averages are only achieved by driving extremely conservative. HP trumps BS non existent mpg claims because the HP is a reality.

For Christs Sake Chris...put down your purse!

[nissangirl74]

I could walk away from 79hp for a 7 mpg gain in the city and a 12 mpg on the highway.

I wouldn't.

I'll always suggest used

Normally I would to. I don't pay full price for anything. Ever. However, the Speed3 is holding its value REALLY well. The 2011 models are still getting over $20K on Autotrader with well over 30K on the clock. So next question. For $4,000 more, would you just buy brand new and know the complete history of the car? Or Save the $4K and buy the used one. I have serious concerns about driving a used performance car. My mind automatically goes to 'what broke'?

[Kompresshun]

Well quite honestly, I probably wouldn't buy either of them. I definitely wouldn't buy a 4cyl Mazda 6 just to have a manual trans, even though I love a manual trans. I also would be leery of the MS3 though if you're buying it for the long haul. I've known 4 people that have had the motors crap out before 60k miles due to cracked pistons or blocks. Not saying they're bad cars, but i've always stayed away from them for that reason.

Normally I would to. I don't pay full price for anything. Ever. However, the Speed3 is holding its value REALLY well. The 2011 models are still getting over $20K on Autotrader with well over 30K on the clock. So next question. For $4,000 more, would you just buy brand new and know the complete history of the car? Or Save the $4K and buy the used one. I have serious concerns about driving a used performance car. My mind automatically goes to 'what broke'?

^This.

That's also the reason we're buying new too. Almost every slightly used version of the vehicles we're looking to buy are only $2,500-4,000 cheaper used with 30K+ miles on them. Why would I buy something that's near the end of it's factory warranty in most cases, when I can buy something brand new, with a full warranty and that no one else has had the chance to mistreat? I'll take new in those circumstances, thank you.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I could walk away from 79hp for a 7 mpg gain in the city and a 12 mpg on the highway.

Good Lord, man!!! I'd happily trade seven empeegees for 80 more hp!!! Hell, I'd trade them for forty more! I miss having excess power. I miss my Q and would HAPPILY welcome back its ultra-consistent 17.6 mpg combined.

[Rex]

MPG averages are only achieved by driving extremely conservative. HP trumps BS non existent mpg claims because the HP is a reality.

HP is not always reality when it comes to Mazda, I'm pretty sure they had to compensate owners of RX-8's & Miata's for overstating crank HP on their brochures.

I'll always suggest used

Normally I would to. I don't pay full price for anything. Ever. However, the Speed3 is holding its value REALLY well. The 2011 models are still getting over $20K on Autotrader with well over 30K on the clock. So next question. For $4,000 more, would you just buy brand new and know the complete history of the car? Or Save the $4K and buy the used one. I have serious concerns about driving a used performance car. My mind automatically goes to 'what broke'?[/quote]

That's when I avoid a car, if the market/demand for it is so strong the car's not depreciating I avoid it. That's how I ended up in a Q45 ~10 years ago instead of an Acura Legend GS 6 speed.

Though you are right, a new known history car would win out over the same car with no used car depreciation.

[Kompresshun]

Good Lord, man!!! I'd happily trade seven empeegees for 80 more hp!!! Hell, I'd trade them for forty more! I miss having excess power. I miss my Q and would HAPPILY welcome back its ultra-consistent 17.6 mpg combined.

We're talking two things here, which is why I would make the sacrifice. One being that it would be a daily driver and the other being that it's a Mazda.

I know we're different on this but I've tried to have something powerful, that I can rip on anytime I want as a daily driver and it never has panned out well for me. Either it gets me in trouble, or it constantly stays broken. That's why I drive the 500... it's powerful enough to not piss me off when I need to pass someone or pull in front of traffic and it doesn't bore me to tears to drive. It's comfortable, VERY roomy, and reliable.

Now that aside, you know that 184hp with a 6spd manual would be fairly boring in some cars. I'm willing to bet that's not the case in the Mazda 6, because i've enjoyed every single Mazda i've been in from a Miata to a Mazda 5 - even my dads 85 Mazda 626 was fun.

Sure, i'd rather be driving something more powerful almost every day. I want something loud and obnoxious that scares children when I drive down the street, setting off car alarms and rattling windows. I just don't want it as something I drive everyday anymore.

[Bubba1]

I could walk away from 79hp for a 7 mpg gain in the city and a 12 mpg on the highway.

Good Lord, man!!! I'd happily trade seven empeegees for 80 more hp!!! Hell, I'd trade them for forty more! I miss having excess power. I miss my Q and would HAPPILY welcome back its ultra-consistent 17.6 mpg combined.

while I agree there is no such thing as "enough" horsepower, I think it needs to be kept in perspective. I don't see big power, or the fun to drive factor as mandatory in every vehicle, particularly if you're a multi vehicle owner. For example, I like my boring midsized SUV simply because it has many features that my other vehicles lack. And since I have a designated fun vehicle to vent my Tim Allen grunting need-for-speed, I'm content with a less-fun to drive vehicle for the mundane chores.

If you had only one vehicle, then I totally understand the higher importance of the fun to drive factor.

[WDRacing]

Negative. Enjoyment from driving your primary vehicle is as a must to me. For me, gas mileage is considered far after...well just about everything. Fun is first and utility is second.

With that said, SUV's can be fun to drive as well. We had a 1989 Pajero (Montero here in the states) that was awesome to drive on the beach or for some mild trail usage. It doesn't have to be fast to be fun. But fast is always a plus.

[Bubba1]

Negative. Enjoyment from driving your primary vehicle is as a must to me. For me, gas mileage is considered far after...well just about everything. Fun is first and utility is second.

With that said, SUV's can be fun to drive as well. We had a 1989 Pajero (Montero here in the states) that was awesome to drive on the beach or for some mild trail usage. It doesn't have to be fast to be fun. But fast is always a plus.

Right. I agree it doesn't need to be fast to be fun and your example helps illustrate my opinion. I test drove a Montero many years ago, and I agree it was a nice mid sized SUV and saw it was a very capable off roader, (so is my old 4 Runner FWIW). But like my 4 Runner, the Montero was not an exciting vehicle to drive on the street and I'm guessing the street accounted for most of your Montero's mileage. If that's true, then one could easily conclude your Montero as a DD is boring (like my 4 Runner) . Plus the fact you liked it despite it not being a canyon carving tire smoking torque monster, supports my contention that a small SUV (which are now about the same size as that old Montero) might merit some consideration.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

The Speed3 is a nice car. I have a friend who has one and she mainly just uses it to commute from Phoenix to Tucson. I've driven it and it has PLENTY of power. Nice even powerband too, not too much turbo lag. Great car, super fun.

I would also take a good hard look at the Outback GT wagon too. My friend just picked one up. I was blown away when I got to drive it. They look so inconspicuous from the outside, but the interior is great. All leather, plenty of room, options galore. His is the turbo model and has a lot of power for what it is. Not quite as sporty as the Speed3, but I was surprised when I could really hear the turbo spool once I got on it. It was a manual too. Fun car.



You can find them pretty cheap too. And they haven't been abused like a WRX/STI.

[Eikon]

The Speed3 is a nice car. I have a friend who has one and she mainly just uses it to commute from Phoenix to Tucson. I've driven it and it has PLENTY of power. Nice even powerband too, not too much turbo lag. Great car, super fun.

I would also take a good hard look at the Outback GT wagon too. My friend just picked one up. I was blown away when I got to drive it. They look so inconspicuous from the outside, but the interior is great. All leather, plenty of room, options galore. His is the turbo model and has a lot of power for what it is. Not quite as sporty as the Speed3, but I was surprised when I could really hear the turbo spool once I got on it. It was a manual too. Fun car.



You can find them pretty cheap too. And they haven't been abused like a WRX/STI.

An Outback XT would be great in the snowbelt if you didn't care about gas mileage.. but in AZ.. not necessary. You would get 22 mpg hwy at best.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

+1. I'd stay away from Subaru.
What about a Scion? I can't remember if those came with a stick or not, but I thought they did. The new ones (Xb and Xd) come with either a 5MT or a 4AT.

Or you could just get the cube running again... :

[PapaSmurf2k3]

If you didn't require a manual trans, sadly your options would greatly improve.

Have you checked out the Ford C-Max?
Hyundai Elantra GT?
... Nissan Leaf?
Versa (also available in 6 speed!)
Ford Flex
Nissan Rogue
a NEW Honda Insight

[Bubba1]

Ford Flex

Good idea. For a big family with pets, a Flex could swallow everything and still have room leftover. I have a good friend who bought a 2WD Flex as his wife's DD. She loves it despite an annoying (at times) MyFordBadTouch.

Bex, does your fleet include a vehicle that holds everyone? If not, a comfortable full sized vehicle like a Flex or MDX might be worth consideration.

[Kompresshun]

Bex, does your fleet include a vehicle that holds everyone? If not, a comfortable full sized vehicle like a Flex or MDX might be worth consideration.

^This. You guys have a ton of fun cars, but the Frontier is the biggest thing you own. If you're looking for extra space, the MS3 really isn't going to be much of an improvement honestly. It may be over the Insight, but it still won't offer much more room than the Frontier.

If you're wanting reasonable fuel economy then maybe the Ford Flex, C-Max, or the Mazda 5 if you're not wanting an CUV/SUV? Heck, i'd be looking at a Subaru though honestly in this situation. Get a Legacy GT or a Outback and call it a day.

[Rex]

The Mazda5 was offer with a stick in the earlier production years.

[nissangirl74]

Bex, does your fleet include a vehicle that holds everyone? If not, a comfortable full sized vehicle like a Flex or MDX might be worth consideration.

No. Since Hunter has returned home, we do not. The Frontier only seats five and the kids are growing so much that the three youngest are becoming cramped back there. Honestly though, it's very rare that I would need something to haul all 6 of us to the same place. However, I have a great need for something to haul 3-4 of us somewhere. While the Frontier does serve that function, the gas mileage is less than stellar.

If you didn't require a manual trans, sadly your options would greatly improve.

I love the Flex and it is on our list to rent for our next road trip. However, we do not have the room to park another one and for as often as we would need it, it would be cheaper just to rent one when I needed to.

I don't want a SUV.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

The Speed3 is a nice car. I have a friend who has one and she mainly just uses it to commute from Phoenix to Tucson. I've driven it and it has PLENTY of power. Nice even powerband too, not too much turbo lag. Great car, super fun.

I would also take a good hard look at the Outback GT wagon too. My friend just picked one up. I was blown away when I got to drive it. They look so inconspicuous from the outside, but the interior is great. All leather, plenty of room, options galore. His is the turbo model and has a lot of power for what it is. Not quite as sporty as the Speed3, but I was surprised when I could really hear the turbo spool once I got on it. It was a manual too. Fun car.


You can find them pretty cheap too. And they haven't been abused like a WRX/STI.

An Outback XT would be great in the snowbelt if you didn't care about gas mileage.. but in AZ.. not necessary. You would get 22 mpg hwy at best.

My buddy got ~25mpg driving to Payson the other week which is a lot of mountains. He does baby it though.

Can't say that's stellar, but it is a 250hp turbo 4 in a pretty big wagon. Plenty of power though.

With the amount of car you're getting for the money, I think the positives outweigh the fuel economy. Subbies have no problem getting to higher miles. And of course with all turbo cars, it's all about keeping it out of boost. It's a shame they don't have an extra gear....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-O ... 692wt_1182