Necessity of wideband

[turtl631]

Once I save enough money to go turbo, I'm planning on running either an Enthalpy ROM tune or a JWT ECU. This will be for a stock block, 550s, t3/t4 50 trim, and perhaps up to around 14 psi or so. Basically, I want to get the most that I can from the stock block relatively safely. I was wondering if you guys woudl recommend running a wideband all the time, or just borrowing one for when I first install everything to make sure that the ECU tune is correct. I don't plan on just dropping everything in and starting it up; I will triple check everything and take every precaution to avoid any disasters at startup. I just don't want to run around with a $350 wideband all the time if it isnt necessary. All opinions welcome, thanks.

[virus77]

I like having a wideband on all the time but its definatly not necessary especial if you arent tuning yourself. But running 14psi out of a t3/t4 on a stock block is asking for broken rings.

[KATwo40]

Yeah, if you're not tuning, just hit the dyno where they'll have a wideband O2. Spend the $100/hr. to tune that sucker and forget about it.

As for the T3/T4 running 14psi...

Will proper tuning (good fuel and timing control) you should be able to make 300-325whp with no problems. I don't know what that translates to in psi/boost but it really doesn't matter. The end goal is whp. Besides, usually the rings don't blow, it's the ring lands on the pistons. If I'm not mistaken, one of the guys on FA has found that, with proper tuning, the KA doesn't blow the ring lands until after 400whp. But for a dependable daily driver, I wouldn't push much past 300-325whp.

[virus77]

ivan ran 400whp but it was a few dyno runs and it was done for. Not that a stock KA wont run at 320whp depending on condition of motor and driving style, it just wont last long as a daily driver.

Im just saying he looks like hes trying to save money and fixing a blown motor isnt cheap so its not to smart running at the brink of destruction. I would go for 270-280 whp as a daily driving figure, just my 2 cents.

[Titan]

Not that a stock KA wont run at 320whp depending on condition of motor and driving style, it just wont last long as a daily driver.

According to whom? What are you basing this on? I'm tired of people commenting purely on hearsay. Just because you may read a few posts about KA-T's blowing, does not constitute saying 320 rwhp on a stock bottom end is unreliable as a daily.

95% of KA-T failures are due to the lack of proper fuel supply / timing retard. Damage from detonation is not simply limited to cast pistons. Forged material, although may posses a greater factor of safety, will succumb to failure from detonation just the same.

Search on FA, there are a few 300 rwhp+ stock KA's running around as daily drivers; some for as long as 2 years.

[virus77]

According to whom? What are you basing this on? I'm tired of people commenting purely on hearsay. Just because you may read a few posts about KA-T's blowing, does not constitute saying 320 rwhp on a stock bottom end is unreliable as a daily.

95% of KA-T failures are due to the lack of proper fuel supply / timing retard. Damage from detonation is not simply limited to cast pistons. Forged material, although may posses a greater factor of safety, will succumb to failure from detonation just the same.

Search on FA, there are a few 300 rwhp+ stock KA's running around as daily drivers; some for as long as 2 years.

At 320whp your tune starts to be a real fine line in respect to the odds of blowing the motor. I have a boosted KA and I love the motor, but i dont think everyone should think that you can have 320whp daily kat on stock internals forever. I ran mine over 8K miles at around 250-300 + whp and the motor had 160k miles on it and it finally gave. Which is why I also said depending on engine condition and driving style.. A tired motor wont hold 320whp for long where as a 50k miles KA that has been well taken care of might, i was just stating something for the guy to think about. Also depending on the state and what octane gas is available, it really is different from case to case. Running 30-40 less whp for the sake of longevity isnt a bad idea for someone on a budget.

And youre information is first hand and not hearsay NICO is a place for learning no need to attack me, i was stating my thougths on the subject.
Modified by virus77 at 10:33 PM 2/1/2005

[Titan]

I was not trying to attack you, I did not mean it to come out that way.

My point was that stock KA or not, detonation can be just as harmful. Of course, a large factor depends on previous motor condition and driving habits.

I think we misunderstood each other. I was not attempting to say any stock KA can withstand 300+ rwhp. I was stating that you do not have to build a fully forged bottom end in order to survive such power on a daily driver.

A healthy/rebuilt, properly tuned, stock KA will be just as reliable as any built motor under such power levels.

[turtl631]

I have 93 octane available, and I will likely get it dyno tuned by Enthalpy. My engine has 115k miles, but it runs fine so far, its on full synthetic, no oil leaks, and I'll do a compression test and probably new timing chain components before I turbo it. I would be quite happy with anywhere in the high 200s to low 300s.

[virus77]

No hard feelings I know how it feels when somone bashes our motor, i get frustrated aswell.

[virus77]

I have 93 octane available, and I will likely get it dyno tuned by Enthalpy. My engine has 115k miles, but it runs fine so far, its on full synthetic, no oil leaks, and I'll do a compression test and probably new timing chain components before I turbo it. I would be quite happy with anywhere in the high 200s to low 300s.

with 93 octance, your motor condition and the jesus of a tune enthalpy seems to do I think you should be fine with that range you mentioned.