Near-Death Experience

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

So I was driving my 92 Q down a busy road at 45mph. As I came to a stop for a stop light, I felt an odd crunch from the pedal, like something just wasnt right. It stopped fine.

I pressed the brake pedal again, and it felt normal.

So I made a right to get on the interstate onramp, and out of nowhere, on a perfect dry day, my Q spun around 180 degrees (it didnt feel like it spun quickly) and I ended up safely in the shoulder, facing traffic coming up the ramp.

I got out, and everything looked normal. Steering felt fine, brakes felt fine. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what happened. I wasnt accelerating heavily around the corner, and it caught me totally off guard.

I think my tires might have been low on air, but other than that I'm not sure what could have been going on. When I get a free moment, Im going to schedule an appt to have the steering rack bushings replaced, but thats all thats wrong as far as I know. And I dont think that could have caused my Q to completely spin around.

Anyway, I made a u-turn, carefully made my way up the ramp, and drove around town and on the highway for another 2 hours, unable to find anything wrong. Im baffled.

-Jesda

Post by **Q451990** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Wow! I've never heard of anything like that before. I'd be concerned that you had a brake caliper freeze or something of that nature...

I'd get it checked out ASAP (I'd probably even have it towed in rahter than risking it again) for brakes and suspension... Glad to hear you're OK buddy!

Heath

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Yeah..... No kidding......

No doubt Id wouldnt be driving that car again until its been checked out..... have it towed, definitely......

Glad to hear your ok!!!!!

It does kinda sound like caliper freeze and then maybe when you did the 180 it sorta freed it up a little....... I dont know, but sounds scary......

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

If it weren't for the "odd crunch", it sounds like you could have hit a patch of oil.

Which way did you spin? Clockwise, I'm assuming. Which shoulder did you end up on? How fast were you going when it happend? Were you under throttle or brake when the spin occured? Parking brake OK? Differential maintained?

Post by **Qdog** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Do you have TCS ? If so, is it working normally ? TCS light come on at any time ? I don't trust the TCS on my 92 Q, it does kick in at inopportune times, very annoying, but nothing like your experience. I don't like the TCS even on snow/ice. I make a habit of switching it off. I got used to LSD rear drive on snow on my two previous cars without TCS. Only got into trouble once, trying to maintain (low)speed uphill on an icy freeway. The LSD will spin both wheels rather than just one.

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I dont have TCS, and I have never examined the diff fluid. Good idea. I assume there's a reservoir under the hood like other fluids. When its wet, I noticed that it slips and the tail veers to the right a few inches before catching traction. I dont know if this is normal for a car with LSD.

The car spun clockwise during normal acceleration, not going over 15-20mph. I ended up on the right shoulder, facing traffic.

Looks like I'll be commuting in the minivan for a bit.

-Jesda

Post by **Q451990** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Jesda wrote:...I have never examined the diff fluid. Good idea. I assume there's a reservoir under the hood like other fluids.

No res. under the hood for the differential. There are two bolts with 1/2" (?) sockets that are turned with a ratchet or breaker bar. You remove the top to check the fluid (it should be up to the bottom of the hole) and the bottom to drain the old fluid and refill through the top one.

Quote »When its wet, I noticed that it slips and the tail veers to the right a few inches before catching traction. I dont know if this is normal for a car with LSD.[/quote]Doesn't sound normal to me if you have good tires. I guess it depends on how hard you're pushing it. Do you have any differential whine? It should be OK at your mileage barring poor maintenence or a fluid leak that caused it to run dry.

Heath

Post by **maxnix** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I wonder if it's a feature of the new Douglas tires? Seems really weird, unlees you just broke traction in a turn and kept spinning until you regained traction.

Post by **Q45tech** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Douglas tire, oh my [Diety]! Members should be horse XXXXXX!

Even the finest tires [Michelin, Firestone Z50] currently available [in 15" size] are nowhere close to the original oem tires in dry friction.......everyone has a higher treadwear index. So members must be careful...........use less that the vehicles capability.

Swapping ends in aggressive driving means you are overwhelming the rear tire friction..........common in wet but dry.

Post by **cbeaudry** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I had something similar to that happen to me in late 2000 while doing 75-80 on I-70 outside of Zanesville, Ohio. The car just seemed to "lose control" and was swirving to the right violently. Trying to use the steering wheel was next to useless. Any correction that I did while slowing down would be followed by the same swirving.

It felt like the steering wheel was doing the correction and then just not doing anything at all. So I played this little game until I finally managed to slow down to a stop and get onto the shoulder.

Turned out that, in my case, it was a brake caliper that had frozen. I had to get both replaced on the front wheels. IRight after the incident, I was able to drive it slowly (20-30mph) to a garage and to have it towed to Columbus but there was no way I was going to hit the highway again, even if the car felt that it was doing OK at slower speeds.

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

If it were one caliper, wouldn't you feel incredible wrenching torque on the steering wheel? I'd imagine that the steering wheel would fly out of your hand in the direction of the ceased brake. On the rear wheels you wouldn't feel it in your hands but the sensation would be like throwing the parking brake on. (Ah...the joys of learning to drive in snowy climes.)

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Is there a way to tell if its the front or rear calipers? Since the steering wheel didnt veer in any direction when I did the clockwise spin, I assume its the rear, am I correct?

-Jesda

Post by **cbeaudry** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

In my case, the steering wheel didn't veer at all. It was as if it had just become detached and wasn't controlling the car anymore. Then it would rergain control briefly and then lose control again. My right front caliper had frozen which is why my car swirved to the right violently. Turns out the left was in pretty bad shape too so both had to be replaced by Infiniti in Columbus.

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Jesda,

Did your steering wheel move at all? I think probably not. Did you feel like you were on ice? Pulsing from anti lock system? Any skid marks aside from the one in your underwear?

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

cb,

Your scenario seems very counterintuitive.

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

The steering wheel didnt move, and when I got out of the car, I looked to see if there was some spot of moisture. So yeah, it felt kinda like I was sliding on ice, except the screeching tire sound!

And, I was too surprised by the whole thing to freak out. When I got home, I was like "OMG WTF JUST HAPPENED BACK THERE?"

-Jesda

Post by **cbeaudry** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

In my case, I didn't hear any tires screeching but the analogy of hitting a patch of ice is accurate since that is what it felt like.

I'm not a mechanic so I just believed what the guys told me at Infiniti in Columbus. They showed me the calipers and they were pretty shot.

Haven't had any similar problems since.

Post by **maxnix** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I still think it was a "Near Douglas Experience."

Man cannot roll far nor well on crummy donuts.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Jes,

Did the front of your car dive as it went into the spin? That would mean a front brake lock up of maybe even one caliper.

It could be the rear if there was suddenly a spin situation out of the blue no steering wheel sensations.

It's almost reassuring that cb, related his Q's erratic behavior. At least you know that you're not going crazy.

Post by **cbeaudry** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I didn't notice the front dipping when I had my "experience" since all I was thinking was "AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"

I would definitely get the brakes checked before venturing far again though.

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Once you exceed the friction coeffcient of your tires you might as well be on ice because the same physical forces are at work. That's why I think Jesda's problem has to be related to the rear of the car. (Don't quote me on that

)

Jesda, did the spin happen so fast that you had no time for corrective steering input? Screeching tires and then spin or spinning then screeching?

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

The grip on these Douglas Performance tires is absolutely fantastic, rivaling the Yokos I had on before. In this case, I would have to agree with the stick rear caliper theory. And as it spun to the right before I could really figure out what the hell was going on, I assume its the right-rear. In any event, the brakes will be serviced.

Thanks everyone!

-Jesda

Post by **maxnix** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Jesda wrote:The grip on these Douglas Performance tires is absolutely fantastic,... - Jesda

I think not, if you spun in the dry as you were making a turn from rest, and not breaking traction with too much throttle.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

Discover the power of the button!

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

I base this on taking corners at high speeds, and maintaining solid grip whereas the Yokos I had would have given up a little earlier (but they were much smoother and quieter). In this case, I doubt any set of tires could have prevented the spin.

Post by **VimyJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

You say you were only going 15-20 mph and not hard on the gas when the spin happened. Doesn't sound like it could have been acceleration related unless you hit a patch of oil. Even crapped out, old tires would hold at those light loads.

Probably, both rear calipers would have to jam to cause total and immediate loss of control. The right rear would have the least affect on control. ABS realated? Weird.

Post by **deftdrummer** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

one time i did the exact same thing only it was more like a 225 degree spin (facing sideways) on an on-ramp in my friend's 94 prelude. This was because we both didn't see the ramp turn that fast @ night and we were doing about 50 :-) somehow we didnt hit either side of the ramp and it was late so no cars --or cops for that matter

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Hmm, so I guess new brake fluid would be a good thing to do as part of a rear brake job.

Near-Death Experience

Near-Death Experience

Nearer my Douglas to thee

Reeeeally?

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