n/a ka?

[lucky03602]

so heres the scoop, been jumping in between turbo or n/a and im assuming for my preference that im gonna go turbo. but i do have a friend of mine who is considering n/a his sohc and i was wondering:

what kind of power to ppl have on this forum for n/a s13's, mainly ka-e if possible and also if you can list what n/a mods you have would be really helpful too

this is to get him "supposidly" a basic idea of what can be done to what extent and yada yada (according to him lol)

thank you!

[lucky03602]

btw im not looking for a n/a vs turbo post here, i know what im gonna do and thats that.

[onosqv]

If you searched, you would have found your answer by now...

Basically, n/a ka will not go more than 200whp (at least dyno proven) home-made... there are a few that are over that mark, but those are full out race cars and they have much larger budgets. Typically, we see n/a ka's go around 175whp w/ anywhere between 2k-5k worth of modding/building.

Turbo, well, you can see that in the ka-t thread about hp/dyno/mods/etc.

Why go n/a? more linear power curve (slightly debatable if you build the rite turbo setup), which is good for autox/etc, possibly road racing. 175-200whp is probably more car than most ppl can handle.

Why go turbo? well, you are going turbo, so you can explain to him.

Both ways will be expensive if done right. Both ways will be satisfying if done right. Both ways will give you headaches some way or another. Which way is easier depends on your or your friend's knowledge of engine work/building/fabricating/budget/etc.

I'm not even sure what this thread is really about, because these questions have just been answered about 15 times in the past couple weeks.

Good luck.

[lucky03602]

its not a question, i was asking that people with n/a 240's post there mods and power/trq or whatever they feel.

i am going to go turbo and he is going to go n/a and he just wanted to see what people have out there is all,

no question posted here

btw yea i have been told 200rwhp is possible with n/a and ive seen plenty of threads about it, and i dont need to search to ask ppl to jot down in this thread what they have for mods and such and to tell you the truth i did a little searching and have found a couple different setups for him (from basic bolt-ons to full blown) and he asked me if i post this for him anyways so he can comeby after work one day and just look at one page instead of 30 so he can get an idea and then go home to his kid and girlfriend.

like i said, this is NO question, i would just like it if people will jot down what they have for n/a and what kind of power they have.

[Nanaimo]

KA24E, Manufactured 05/89 (8.6:1), Short CAI, producing 110rwHP@5000, 124ftlb@2600, running crazy rich (something's wrong but no codes, I have an appointment for a diagnosis this Friday)

[pregmantis]

will smog be an issue? You would prob get over 200hp easy, go to some 510 sites they got that down pat. good pump gas compression, good cam, 4to1 headers and induction should get him there.

[lucky03602]

no smog isnt a problem here at all.

question on a 5/90 sohc what do you think he'll be running for this setup:

hotshot 4-2-1custom 2.5" piping (exhaust)catco hi-flow cati dont konw what muffler he plans on running so for now lets say stock

injen intake

this is gonna be his basic bolt ons and was wondering what he might get out of this before he starts retarding/advancing the timing (im not n/a so i dont know that one) and doing cams.

i think all he's gonna do is basic boltons, cam, and timing if im correct.

[onosqv]

As a reference, my dyno since he is sohc (keep in mind I'm automatic)...

about 155 compression all around - no oil leaks/coolant leaks/etcminor problems were small exhaust leaks and possibly a tiny bit injector leak (fixed now & head rebuilt, but hasn't been redynoed yet)

automaticinjen intake w/ jwt filterHot shot header2.5" magnaflow hi-flow cat2.5" trust sp exhaustur underdrive pulley

dyno: a whopping 97.4whp

even w/ a stick, it still wouldn't be that impressive...

for n/a, you HAVE to touch the engine for any real results.

[lucky03602]

97rwhp? thats nuts! stock at 140bhp means you should have 110-125ish (dont remember actual amount) at the wheels. of course this is brand new 0 miles.

i figured with that setup, and this is what i told him i think itll be, was about 15-25 or so more (10-15 from headers, exhaust and cat, 3-8 from intake, 2-7 from misc stuff like taking off a/c belt, taking out ac condensior, taking off aiv and egr, etc)

so i was guessing from lets call it 110 stock, hed be from 125-135ish with it all. of course this is pretending this car is new and all which it aint.

[JNM240]

The parts dont add up horsepower like in a video game. Just because your intake says you gain 5-10 hp and your exhaust claims an 8 hp gain, does not mean you just gained 18 hp from an intake and exhaust. Intake and exhaust combined MIGHT give you 5 hp, REALISTICALY. Just as brokeAs240sx said, you HAVE to touch the motor to see any REAL gains.

Take mine:

custom forged JE 10.5:1 pistonsNismo R4 cam (270 degrees, .402 lift)port & polished headintakeexhaustheadergutted catMSD ignition

While ive never had my car dynoed, i would be willing to bet im making in the neighborhood of 180 CHP, MAYBE 175 or so at the wheels, if i am lucky. If you were to add up what each manufacturer claims i should get, i'd probably have 250 RWHP. But i can tell you dont. Its all about how one item works with the other, and how skilled you are to effectively tune everything together.

[Ajax]

97 rwhp does sound low, but it could be a function of dyno type and conditions etc. etc. I certainly don't know specifics on any of that, but that could give difference enough that comparisons over the internet don't work so well.125-135ish from the mods you said on a good-running engine seems reasonable.

[420sxse]

Don't many bolt ons just shift power from one part of the band to another? When they just say "HP gain" it could be anywhere in the band, but you'd probably see a drop somewhere else. So theoretically, one could spend a bundle on parts, only to have them cancel each other out.

[Ajax]

True, HP gain claims do not give much info. It could be at peak, or just before or after, etc.Multiple parts wouldn't exactly cancel each other out. Specifically on the KA, most parts tend to gear toward the higher rpm range at a sacrifice of some low end, since they already have decent torque. Hopefully the gains are worth more than the losses.Overall, you'd be hoping to get more area under the curve on a dyno chart, so if you get more power from one part at 6000 rpm, and more power from another part at 6500, it may not yield a higher peak hp number, but its still improvement

[Nanaimo]

Don't many bolt ons just shift power from one part of the band to another?

No.

Car designers take a lot of things into consideration, not just performance. Their biggest consideration is profit. They have to achieve a ballance of style, performance, safety, emissions, economy, marketable price, and cost. Most of all they want to produce as big as possible of a difference between marketable price and cost. If a crush-bent exhaust will save money but not effect marketable price, they'll go with that. Most people won't drive hard enough on their test drive to notice the difference.

You can make up some the resulting difference between what was possible, and what the manufacturer did by buying the right aftermarket parts, and tuning properly.

Many are designed to overcome some bottleneck to performance. Replace your restrictive stock exhaust, and your restrictive stock intake becomes a bottleneck, Replace that and your CAT becomes a bottleneck, and so on.

Others reduce parasitic losses (underdrive pulleys, removed A/C) or engine moment of inertia ( elecric fan, aluminum flywheel, etc) or reduce driveline moment of inertia (lightweight wheels, driveshaft).

Some are purely for looks (polished valve covers), and some of these are really bad for performance (big wings, bigger wheels).

Intake and exhaust headers can reduce power in one area of the curve while improving others, though. To get the most benefit from tuned (as in tuned, not just aftermarket) intake and exhaust headers you have to muck with the cam a bit though (they'll need a little overlap so at certain RPM the exhaust opening pulse reflection sucks more charge into the cylender) (I've just been reading about this, I've not used it). From what I've read, well-designed intake, exhaust, head porting, valve job, and cam timing can put the volumetric efficiency over 100%, but for street driven cars, you'd want a broader power band than this would produce.

The book "Car Hacks and Mods for Dummies" should give you some idea what's what.

[lucky03602]

hmm that sheds a whole new light on stuff for me..seeing how ive never had any numbers to go by i honestly just assumed that the actual gain would be a little below what the factory says. so like if i put on an exhaust that read 10-15 id assume 6-12 or so.

knowing that will help thinking a little, especially that bottleneck theory that makes a lot of sense and has been proven on my dirtbike so i kinda knew that one.

well guess ill tell him that hell just hafta dig into his motor if he wants any real gain.

[Ajax]

Don't let that be discouraging though.I added intake, exhaust, new clutch and lightened flywheel before I went full rebuild, and it made things more fun just with those. There are some other freebie things that don't take a lot of work if you have some mechanical aptitude, some tools, and downtime. Things like TPS sensor adjustment voltage (do a search, I know its been discussed).NA KA 240 doesn't have to be super powerful to be fun.

[lucky03602]

haha no the na ka is for a friend, im gonna do a kae-t hopefully within the next 2 yearswith my setup ill be getting roughly 180-200 hp so im perfectly fine

my friend was hoping to get around 150rwhp doing an na ka and he was hoping to do it with bolt ons (i,h,e) cams, and underdrive pulleys. i just simply let him know if hes looking for the big numbers hes gonna have to dig deeper

as for me all i got is a tired stock ka-e with a cone filter and maf adapter. ive taken off and out the ac and thats pretty much it for my car at the moment and doing just that made it all fun cuz it was me under the hood so no matter how slow my car is, as long as im doing the work its extremly enjoyable.