My VH41DE hitting limiter, sounds nice!

Post by **Mettler** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:47 pm

Sorry for the quality of the video, and my mate neglected to record it from the front to get the induction noise, but it sounds brutal !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0sb2q7sfAk

More vids to come when I get them, vids of driving etc. It drives smooth, with excellent grip and VERY precise steering. Apart from a few minor teething problems, the GTS-8 is very much alive, and has hit the streets!

Post by **SuperHatch** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:56 pm

Sounds good man, congratulations!

Post by **elwesso** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:08 pm

HELL YES man!!! this is what ive been WAITING TO SEE... Props!!!! I know how long and hard you've worked on this thing, and I cant wait to see more vids of how this thing runs.....

Seems like youre in love already!!!!

Post by **John Dixon** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm

Awsome, nice to see the hard work paid off

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:17 am

Haha cheers guys

Hell yeah Wes, it's immensely satisfying! The car has extensive modification throughout, and really drives very nicely! I took a 35kmh corner on sunday at 120kmh under full throttle, and the car still felt like it had more grip to give. I haven't even had a wheel alignment yet!

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:30 pm

Some more pics for Wes, now you can see how I did the intake... nice and simple

(click to enlarge)

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:53 pm

You have no idea, im going crazy over here...... You are down there in NZ (there, I got it right, mate!!! I had to bust out that picture you made for me though ) with a VH powered skyline with warm weather..... and i look out and theres a few mm of ICE covering my Q from top to bottom... You dont even know, i cant wait to see some vids of this thing in action, and maybe some numbers...

So i have to ask, are you pretty much done with it..? I mean, obviously you have to put the hood back, and tidy up some other things..... But, you dont really have any other nasty plans do you? I figure that has to be enough power for a car that probably doesnt weigh a whole lot more than 1000kg...

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:57 pm

Its ironic... Right as I started to go through the pics, I had my MP3 player up and the theme to "star wars" came up....

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:08 pm

Yeah there's mods to come...

Mr Hartley builds VH powered stockcar engines with about as much head & valvetrain work I've ever heard of on these motors, and stockcar teams pay in excess of NZ$50k for his motors. He's built more, and done more R&D on the VH motor than probably anyone else in the southern hemisphere.

In the Sth Island champs just gone by there were 11 of his VH powered superstock cars there and were dominating the Ford SVOs, Chevs, Toyota 1UZs etc... of course, it's the VH engine after all.

Anyway, after a talk to him, he seems very interested in my project and when I pay a deposit, is willing to build me a VH41DE with 45 internals, angry cam grind, head work, GTI-R inner valvesprings that I will supply him, and basically set the motor up for me... all I'll need to do is cruise down to Palmerston North and swap motors out and in.

He'll take my standard VH41DE for use as another stockcar engine later on, because due to the displacement regulations, he has no use for the VH45 internals anyway!

With a setup like that and a custom ECU tune, I should be able to squeeze out between 450-500HP, and that will definitely be enough then, as it'll make the Skyline a serious street machine!

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:00 pm

i assume though for the time being your going to enjoy VH41 stock madness....? Any time frame on the other stuff?

let me ask... do you know any of the specifics with his cams?? Does he have to flycut pistons in order to run mad lift???

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:14 pm

Oh for sure, it's got a hell of a lot grunt at the moment as it is! I got the brand new Eagle F1 GSD-3 275's turning on sunday with ease in the dry, should be able to deal to most cars on the roads. Over here we have lots and lots of drift ricers at the moment, I'm growing pretty tired of all the A31 Cefiros and C33 Laurels everywhere... running standard RB20DETs with the most massive intercooler they can find, it seems everyone wants one of those 'bellbottom' style lip & skirt kits and cut springs... I look forward to embarrassing them at the lights & roundabouts, and country roads.

Timeframe on the other stuff will be possibly may/june ? Gotta get my car road legal first... cert & compliance, which is pretty expensive!

I don't know how much he wants yet, but considering I'm swapping a base motor, all I'll need to pay for is the grind, headwork, and rebuilding of the motor... so hopefully not a great deal.

He didn't give me specific details on the cams because he didn't have them handy at the time, but I did ask some questions with the intent of discussing it on Nico. He said he has four different cam grind specs that he uses, each one higher up in the scale of madness.

The first one is the most ideal for street use, increasing everything a little bit... lift, overlap etc... putting power at the flywheel over 400HP immediately, without inducing coilbind on the valvesprings.

The other three are really for built engines, moreso with the valvetrain, as he builds his motors to rev out to 10,000rpm and obviously the cams are specced to suit this higher rev range... and everything gets changed on superstock engines. Resleeved blocks, forged internals, insane cams, valves, head work, dry sump etc... mind you, he did tell me something interesting last time I spoke to him...

I enquired about how much it'd cost to get some serious headwork done, and he told me that his 590HP superstock engines have very little actual head modification done, he says he only does just what's needed. I'd almost wager that a couple of the guys on here (John Dixon, defrag) have done more extensive headwork... but then again, a professional race engine builder with a wicked reputation wouldn't exactly share his secrets with me I'll bet!

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:25 pm

Wow... So hes doing cams to get 400HP on stock valve springs?? That is HOT...

I wonder how much hed charge if I sent him a few sets of cams and have them regrind them to the specs. That would be amazing if we could get a set of cams that we could just swap into the 45 and get some HP... With the way the stock VH45 manifolds are designed id wager to say theyd give you a good gain and wouldnt necessarily need a hot rod header....

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:35 pm

His personal VH motor is for his boat, it's a VH50DE running that cam grind, with a highrise manifold and a single carby, and he said he's making 420HP out of that.

He quoted NZ$440 (can't remember if that includes or excludes GST) for a cam grind (all four camshafts) and that included the other bits & pieces as well.

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:44 pm

holy crap... thats a touch over $300 US!!! Im in there like swim wear!

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:52 pm

I'll have another talk to him soon specifically about the cam grinds, and whether he'd be interested in taking on a group buy for them. Sounds to me that they'd sell like hotcakes to Q owners as a pretty cheap upgrade.

Just remember though, shipping camshafts over here and then back again will bump the price somewhat... but then again you will have the benefit of extensive R&D and experience with the VH engine going into the cam grinds.

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:58 pm

Still I figure with surface shipping its not going to take more than $100 to ship it both ways...

Be interesting to see what the specs are, im gonna guess hes not going to release the specs....

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:18 pm

Ok I just spoke to him then, he will supply specs with them, and some instructions on what needs doing.

He said that all it effectively comes with is the reground cams, and some shims that are installed under the lifters to take up the gap created by the smaller base circle on the cams.

He mentioned the factory duration is something like 187 degrees and the grind takes it right out to 216, as well as increasing lift and a bit more overlap.

He said the grind's perfect for dropping into a factory street car, mint for a Q45, without causing any major issues with the computer. A great, affordable bolt-in upgrade.

He's also happy to get interest in the states, having mentioned that the US has been slow to start modding the VH engine... and is willing to do cam grinds for you Wes... so get a few sets of camshafts and start saving man, and lets get it happening!

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:20 pm

Does he do any Forced Induction grinds???

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:41 pm

This grind is favourable to forced induction, though next time I talk to him I could mention the desire for a longer duration for forced induction.

Post by **mtcookson** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:59 pm

I would definitely be interested as well. N/A or forced induction as it'll be N/A for quite a while, then force fed.

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:12 am

Mettler wrote:This grind is favourable to forced induction, though next time I talk to him I could mention the desire for a longer duration for forced induction.

So these cams (call them the stage 1 cams) would be your general upgraded cams that would work on NA or BOOST. Thats HOT... because if you wanted to run a lot of boost you just put the GTiR springs in and you're golden!

Post by **Mettler** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:33 am

Pretty much! Stage 1 cams will just remove the 'factory'ness of your standard cams and make them wild, for both NA or boost application. If you were going hard core either direction, then you'd need a more specific cam grind... but even with like 600HP, the stage 1 grind would be mint!

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:38 am

Man this sounds amazing... So basically if I undrestand correctly, these other 2 grinds he does will not really be useful for a day to day basis, they would only work well on setups that either rev high or put out more HP than most of us will ever run??? So lets say we get 90% out of stage one, and then the other 10% comes from either stage 2 or 3 but we trade off enough that we stick with stage 1 and call it a day.......

Im getting very excited!!!

Post by **John Dixon** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:44 am

Wow, that's a great price!! For comparison I paid nearly £700 (~$1300) for my re-grinds.Gotta love living in rip-off Britain

Post by **Mettler** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:11 am

I'm pretty sure that stage 2, 3 and 4 all need more than just a grind and shims... he makes solid lifters for a start, and then there's stiffer valvesprings, new valves & seats which require headwork etc.

So yeah, the stage 1 grind is a cheap & mint upgrade, and it's not just a little upgrade, it really unlocks quite a generous amount of power & torque for the price.

He was describing their effect to me with the VTC, saying the car is still pretty smooth at idle, but when the VTC comes on the cams become really quite hot! I love the sound of that!

Post by **SuperHatch** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:11 am

Do you know if the cams from my 92 motor would be good for use as cores in my 94 motor? I know the engines are quire a bit different, I wonder if they're interchangeable. That would be perfect, since I would never be down a set of cams.

Does he have a price of I sent him my 92 cams, for everything needed to make it a drop in affair on my 94 motor? I need the inner springs and modified seats too...

Also, what kind of price am I looking at for beefy aftermarket connecting rods from your market? I really want to run the Manley rods I'm trying to get a group buy together on, but if there is something off the shelf available from overseas that will work, it at least gives me another option...

Thanks a bunch!

- Steve

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:32 am

The cams are the same from 90-95 (build dates 08/89-07/95) Just verified with the parts book.

Makes sense because they got rid fo VTC and thus needed different cams.

Post by **Mettler** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:34 am

I dunno man, you'd have to investigate the differences yourself.

As far as inner springs and spring seats are concerned, ask Ezekial if he'll hook you up, he knows where to get them for a good price... modifying the seats is effectively just drilling the center hole bigger so it fits over the larger VH valve stem!

Next time I talk to Mr Hartley I'll ask him about what conrods they use, and what application they're suitable for. Remember these motors rev to 10,000rpm and the engines run on methanol, so the rods may be special lightweight ones and not ideal for a boosted application.

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:10 pm

i thought ezekial said that the stock seats worked with the GTIR springs? Basically identical just stiffer.

Post by **Mettler** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:49 pm

No the stock seats only fit the stock outer springs... there's apparently a slightly higher up spring seat platform down there that you drop GTI-R inner spring seats onto, but the valve stems on a VH are bigger than an SR so you need to enlarge the hole in the inner spring seats so you can actually fit them.

There's no way you'd want to run your inner valvesprings straight on the aluminium because you'd damage it.

My VH41DE hitting limiter, sounds nice!

My VH41DE hitting limiter, sounds nice!

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