My s13 race project. Alot of pictures.

[newfengshui]

that sucks that you've had some problems, i love reading this thread.

have you thought about a roof scoop, running hoses down to the radiator in the same aluminum catcher, but tilting the radiator back to allow the air to go up and over it, then out the back of the car?

just a thought.

[thomasjamal]

Yeah, great thread. Keep it coming.

[seejaytoo]

very very nice you have real talent keep on rockin

[slik_s13]

not boring at all, i'll be expecting more to come from ya.

[colinaxel]

what did you do to repair that frame rail rust?

[nsrZ32]

Abolutely amazing fab work man.

Welcome to NICO

[Morph]

now would be the time for you to pop your collar.

[nani]

NICE work

[hannibal]

Wow! You're the man!

[zenkii]

you must love your s13 that much

[Dano]

Wow! Excellent post! Keep the updates coming and welcome to NICO!

-Dan

[Riubens]

thats very nice work you got there , any pictures of your brothers z32?

[sicride]

Well thank you for possibly the best full bodied answer ever to any of my questions.

About the radiator setup I still have a feeling there may be some problems, just my "theory" for thought. If you are taking in air from under the car this is fine and makes sense that the air below the car would be pushing the car upwards (lift) but the problem with this is, if it is running smoothly below the car it is not causing much lift, when you scoop it from under the car and change it's direction upwards (this will actually cause downforce) but again this will be reversed when that air has momentum upwards and hits the top of your box, causing lift. This may equal out, or could go either way: downforce or lift. The problem I'm still seeing is any downforce you are making from the air flowing over your rear deck/spoiler actually creates eddies (swirls of air) behind the vehicle, this is the effect that is causing a lot of downforce. With the new air coming from under the car and exiting below the tail lights it could severely disturb these eddies and render them useless.

Again thats just a theory, so obviously trial and error either way sounds like a fairly decent approach. I would just be fairly careful the first few times you get on the track, as I am sure you will be considering the amount of work put into the car recently anyhow. Good luck, can't wait to see further progress.

[NisanS13turbo]

You WIN!

[oldschoolsilvia]

Very nice

You should come fix some rust on my car for me now hahaha

[notslow]

WOW!

And cool f*&!ing dood of the year award goes to..."welcome

[staff]

Thanks again fore all comments Glad your not bored! I will keep you posted all the way to the dyno

About the roof scoop, I have thought about it. And maybe that would be a real good way to get air down to the radiator. It would look cool aswell, I wonder if it would be sufficient wich just a roof scoop. Ore would it be hard to get enough air with just a roofscoop?

And Sicride, I will take it easy to feal how it acts in higher speed at first. Because maybe you are right and the car will get much lift at the rear. I havent thought that much about it, but after reading your answer I starting to think that maybe it does play a big role. Then Ill have to change it, I will take a look at how much work it would be to do it in another way at ones.

The rust was total at my car, I have more pictures of rusty peaces. I took some messurements then I cut all of the frame rail away. And built a new one, from the front to the rear, almost everything is new.

Its safe to say that the car was in real bad shape at the beginning of the project. I don’t have a lot of photos of the first phase of the project. It was so much work to fix all that rust so I dident have time ore fealt like taking photos. The photos I have was before I really started to dig in to the rust. But that’s something I regret now, I would like to have photos of the car when it was hanging together buy peaces. The rear framerail was complete cutout.I cut out all of the trunk, to build a box fore my fuelcell and fuelpumps. So that they would get as low as possible. (real bad photos.)Its an photo from before I first drove the car, so the dirty parts have now all be cleand and repainted.

Yes I have some photos of my brother 300zx.I have a complete pictures serie on how to build the rollcage, I can post it in a new thread if anyone wants to see?We first placed the engine and built mountings. But we scrapped them and started cutting the car up. Wanted the engine more to the rear J ready fore the great american engine. LS1 is one great motor!http://videos.streetfire.net/v...6.htm

I hope its ok that I went abit offtopic with my brothers z32. But at the last photo you can see my car behind his.

Im always open fore tips and ideas on how to improve my project. So if you have questions ore criticism that has to do with my car, don’t hesitate to write it.

Thanks again! //Staffan

[AeonTorpor]

Holy cow, man. That's some serious work, good job! Your S13 and your bro's Z are crazy. V8... I'm keeping tuned to see this thing progress, that's for sure.

[Nick240sx]

i have a theory on the radiator.

i noticed in one of your pics that the center garnish of the rear tailights was removed and you have a piece of aluminum in place.

i would think, if you mounted the radiator against the rear trunk area and have the hoses coming from a roof scoop, or side vents, Carrera GT style, feeding the radiator, and then remove the aluminum piece in the center garnish and replace it with black mesh and then form the aluminum coming from the back of the radiator to funnel through the center garnish outlet. solving you air exhaust issue and looking cool ftw haha. just an idea.

edit, saw your fuel cell in place of the trunk area, probably wont work.

here is a brief illustration of my idea


Modified by Nick240sx at 8:37 AM 3/2/2007

[sicride]

To be honest, I know AmoebAssassin is an engineer and has usually had very insightful posts. I'd like to know what he thinks is the best way to fabricate the rear radiator setup??

Perhaps?? If he doesn't reply tonight I'll PM him directing his attention to this if he's interested.

[staff]

AeonTorporThanks, glad you like it. We saved a lot of weigh on the Z by using the v8 instead of the standard. He built a high power vg30tt engine at first, but after a hard year of race driving it gave up. And starting from sqratch again was not an option, cylinderblock, crank, pistons where broke. So it was cheaper to buy a ls1 to get a nice engine wich can stand a lot of racing. I was thinking of doing the same this winter when my motor broke. But I decided to give it another try first. hehe

Nick240sx,Your theory looks just how I first wanted it, with radiator mounted at the rear tailight. But it to big to fit over the fuelcell. I made the fuelcell hole before I thought about putting the radiator in the trunk. I like the way too take air from the roof like that. Ill have to taka a closer look at the car when I go to the garage. Maybe this is a better way then taking it from the floor..

sicrideI would be thankfull fore that, It would be real great if you can get engineer to give his theories on what would work good.

//Staffan

[Biggamehit]

that is hot man really great work

what kinda of welder?

[staff]

that is hot man really great work

what kinda of welder?

Thanks!

I use both MIG/MAG 180AMP welder and a AC/DC kempi 250amp TIG welder. Fore the rollcage build I only had the MIG/MAG welder.

[Nick240sx]

hm....maybe if you sit the radiator in front of the fuel cell and let the exhaust ducting run over top the fuel cell to the garnish outlet. that way it will be a shorter distance for the cooling lines to run and a shorter distance for the air hoses to run. another thought that comes to my head is to integrate ducts into the rear quarter windows. this is fun just thinking about. haha.

[bone_stock_240]

Damn, now I feel useless. I am a mechanical engineer, but I can offer no help at all. In my defense, I have not graduated yet. I am working at Pratt and Whitney for coop, so if you plan on putting a turbofan I can help you out.

Back on topic, it seems that pulling the air from underneath would hurt the aerodynamics a bit because ideally you want the air to pass really fast under the car, and really slow over top of the car to give yourself the most downforce. However, it might not make that much of a difference because the airflow under your car is probably already pretty turbulent. Slap some panels on the bottem and toss a diffuser on the back. SICK.

Sicride, air going under the car would only cause lift if it was going slower than the air over the car. Fast moving air is lower pressure than slow moving air, so as long as the air is moving slower over top, there is a net downwards pressure on the car. I also thought that eddies created more drag than downforce. Even though spoilers do produce alot of downforce, they do create alot of drag. A properly designed car that can take full advantage of it's ground effects, does without a spoiler. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong. I haven't really studied aerodynamics and all that jazz yet. Taking those more practical courses in 4th year.

[bone_stock_240]

Hmm, having all that heat by the fuel cell would make me a teensy bit nervous. Probably just paranoia though.

[sicride]

Sicride, air going under the car would only cause lift if it was going slower than the air over the car. Fast moving air is lower pressure than slow moving air, so as long as the air is moving slower over top, there is a net downwards pressure on the car. I also thought that eddies created more drag than downforce. Even though spoilers do produce alot of downforce, they do create alot of drag. A properly designed car that can take full advantage of it's ground effects, does without a spoiler. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong. I haven't really studied aerodynamics and all that jazz yet. Taking those more practical courses in 4th year.

exactly my point. The air moving under the car if flowing smoothly it will be faster than air over the roof. If it is disturbed by this method of getting air it will likely be slower under the car than over. Also the eddies is drag yes, and as such creates downforce the same way a front splitter does. Again I'm no engineer but I do have an above average background in physics and particular interest in aerodynamics. Just wait till you take a hydrodynamics course, almost all of the same theories apply to aerodynamics.

[bone_stock_240]

Oh ok, I didn't read your answer thoroughly enough. The airflow underneath will already be pretty turbulent and crappy, so these might not make a noticeable difference, but yeah, you are right. It is difficult to say what the actual effect will be without trying it out.

So far I have only taken one fluid mechanics course. Most of it was hydrostatics though, except for the very end where we did hydrodynamic stuff. I should bust out my text book and give myself a refresher.

[1fastredsc]

Your probably better off leaving the radiator up front, considering the large cross sectional area that the air traveling to your radiator has, translating to lots of mass flow which leads to excellent heat convection through the radiator. You could even do what the ALMS corvette team does and put a hood vent it to draw the air back out in a controlled manner to stabilize the air as it exits, which is just as important when it comes to drag as how it enters.However if your still stuck on the idea of putting it behind you, then i'd suggest doing what some of those open-wheel cars and mid engine cars do and draw your air from side air ducts. If you do draw from under the car you'll slow the remaining air under the car "possibly" creating a high pressure zone under the rear of the car. By copying off of what race cars do, you could draw air from the sides, keep the car low and that under carriage air velocity high, and install a diffuser in the rear which will slow the air under the car after it leaves the bottom and fill in the low pressure zone behind the car to help cut back on your high speed drag.By the way, i'm no mechanical engineer but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night.

[bone_stock_240]

Hahahaha. So that is why your answer was sooooo smart!!!! I didn't think of the radiator intake making a high pressure section at the back of the car. Talk about awesome drifting!!!!! the rear of the car would be floating off the ground.

+1 for diffuser. They look cool as hell, and the fact that it is functional would give you mad street cred. Hahaha.