My long F50 road trip

[StarPD]

Just returned from our 4 week 7345 miles cross-country trip in my '05 Q45. Went from Phoenix to Washington D.C., then to Northern Michigan, Southern Wisconsin, then West to Monatana and back South to Phoenix. Went through 21 States. We saw the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers, the Vietnam Wall, Korean War Memorial and the WWII Memorial. We found my wife's estranged son, an emotional and tearful event, and spent time with my true life war hero Uncle Angelo, as well as my son John and his family, my brother and his family, and my two Chicago area daughters and their families. Visited my cousin who I grew up with and haven't seen to over 30 years just outside of Chicago, and got a nail in a tire there. Got to the cemeteries to visit my dad and his family's graves, my wife's family's graves.

On the way home, saw the Grand Tetons, Cedar Breaks National Monument and Zion National Monument, both in Southern Utah. It was a great trip, and we really enjoyed it.

The roads back East are horrendous. I don't know how those who live there can stand the abuse they put on a car, absolutely terrible pavement, worse than a war zone. Traffic was terrible too. All four major Interstates around Chicago are under construction, down to only one lane mostly, with traffic jams that back up for many miles. I could never move back East again.

On the way East, we saw at least 50 or more deer on the roadways, around 12 to 15 recently killed ones hit by cars or trucks, and raccoons and other smaller animals EVERYWHERE. Hit a Raccoon in southern Illinois at night on the way to D.C., I estimate damage at around $1,000 or more.

Winds were so bad they almost defy description. Vicious headwinds from the East started when we hit Taos NM, and continued all the way to D.C.. I estimate them at at least 40 MPH or more, headwinds all the way. When we left D.C., the winds shifted and came from the West and North, even worse. We actually saw flocks of birds trying to fly and making no headway. They were flapping their wings as hard as they could and not moving over the ground, just flying in place!!! This cost me in fuel mileage and oil consumption. At 60 MPH and A/C off, I only got around 19 to 20 MPG and consumed over 3 quarts of oil in 4500 miles! The hidden benefit was that I loaded the engine so hard for so long, it seated the rings. Once we turned South in Montana, the winds died down, and I got around 25 MPG with the A/C on at 70 MPH, and consumed no more oil at all.

Now for the bad part, and the mixed emotions I now have with this car:When we got East where the roads were so bad, every time I hit a hard bump or pothole, I got a loud knock in the steering column. Something is loose somewhere, and I'll have to get it fixed under warranty. The persistent whine from the rear is still there, but didn't get any worse, just was annoying for the whole trip. Front tires feathered and produced a fluttering sound that was also annoying, had them rotated just outside of Chicago when I got the punctured tire repaired, which mitigated it somewhat, but it will take a while for them to even out.

Other than the fuel and oil consumption issues and the steering knock, the car ran great. I hated the front end pushing on the many curves and the vague steering, but the car cornered flat. Low beams are phenomenal, but even with high-performance bulbs, the high beams are disappointing. Lacking any way to adjust them doesn't help either. No illumination of the steering wheel controls (which my wife's Honda Civic coupe has) was a major irritation, something glaringly omitted on F50s. Also the jerking of the cruise control on downgrades was annoying. To stop it, I had to trip the cruise control out on downhills, a major PITA. I don't know if the system cuts fuel off on downgrades to maintain set speed, or applies the brakes intermittently, but it's aggravating beyond words.

Plenty of irritation from stupid drivers who insist on going 45 to 50 MPH in 65 zones for miles in curves and no passing zones, not to mention idiots who pull out in front of oncoming cars causing them to have to slam on the brakes, then go under the speed limit. I noticed driver back East have a tendency to drive much more aggressively, cutting others off and weaving in and out of traffic.

All in all, it was a great trip, even with the annoyances with the car, roads, and drivers. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat, but I'd make doubly sure everything on the car was perfect. I thought it was, but apprently not, even though the dealer checked it out before I left. One thing I can say is that if Infiniti could address the high beam shortcomings, eliminate the front end pushing in curves, and illuminate the steering wheel controls, the F50 would be the best road car in the business. As it is, these shortcomings keep the F50 from being the superb road car it could be. I fully intend to write Infiniti and let them know how disappointed I am in these annoyances which in my book, reduce the driving pleasure on the road. I believe the steering problems (vagueness and serious understeer) and cruise control downhill jerking could be addressed easily, while changing the high beam reflectors and illuminating the steering wheel controls might be cost prohibitive. Regardless, these things should ALL be addressed by Infiniti at either No Charge or at least a subsidized low cost for present owners.

[paranoidjack]

Just returned from our 4 week 7345 miles cross-country trip in my '05 Q45. Went from Phoenix to Washington D.C., then to Northern Michigan, Southern Wisconsin, then West to Monatana and back South to Phoenix. Went through 21 States. We saw the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers, the Vietnam Wall, Korean War Memorial and the WWII Memorial. We found my wife's estranged son, an emotional and tearful event, and spent time with my true life war hero Uncle Angelo, as well as my son John and his family, my brother and his family, and my two Chicago area daughters and their families. Visited my cousin who I grew up with and haven't seen to over 30 years just outside of Chicago, and got a nail in a tire there. Got to the cemeteries to visit my dad and his family's graves, my wife's family's graves.

On the way home, saw the Grand Tetons, Cedar Breaks National Monument and Zion National Monument, both in Southern Utah. It was a great trip, and we really enjoyed it.

The roads back East are horrendous. I don't know how those who live there can stand the abuse they put on a car, absolutely terrible pavement, worse than a war zone. Traffic was terrible too. All four major Interstates around Chicago are under construction, down to only one lane mostly, with traffic jams that back up for many miles. I could never move back East again.

On the way East, we saw at least 50 or more deer on the roadways, around 12 to 15 recently killed ones hit by cars or trucks, and raccoons and other smaller animals EVERYWHERE. Hit a Raccoon in southern Illinois at night on the way to D.C., I estimate damage at around $1,000 or more.

Winds were so bad they almost defy description. Vicious headwinds from the East started when we hit Taos NM, and continued all the way to D.C.. I estimate them at at least 40 MPH or more, headwinds all the way. When we left D.C., the winds shifted and came from the West and North, even worse. We actually saw flocks of birds trying to fly and making no headway. They were flapping their wings as hard as they could and not moving over the ground, just flying in place!!! This cost me in fuel mileage and oil consumption. At 60 MPH and A/C off, I only got around 19 to 20 MPG and consumed over 3 quarts of oil in 4500 miles! The hidden benefit was that I loaded the engine so hard for so long, it seated the rings. Once we turned South in Montana, the winds died down, and I got around 25 MPG with the A/C on at 70 MPH, and consumed no more oil at all.

Now for the bad part, and the mixed emotions I now have with this car:When we got East where the roads were so bad, every time I hit a hard bump or pothole, I got a loud knock in the steering column. Something is loose somewhere, and I'll have to get it fixed under warranty. The persistent whine from the rear is still there, but didn't get any worse, just was annoying for the whole trip. Front tires feathered and produced a fluttering sound that was also annoying, had them rotated just outside of Chicago when I got the punctured tire repaired, which mitigated it somewhat, but it will take a while for them to even out.

Other than the fuel and oil consumption issues and the steering knock, the car ran great. I hated the front end pushing on the many curves and the vague steering, but the car cornered flat. Low beams are phenomenal, but even with high-performance bulbs, the high beams are disappointing. Lacking any way to adjust them doesn't help either. No illumination of the steering wheel controls (which my wife's Honda Civic coupe has) was a major irritation, something glaringly omitted on F50s. Also the jerking of the cruise control on downgrades was annoying. To stop it, I had to trip the cruise control out on downhills, a major PITA. I don't know if the system cuts fuel off on downgrades to maintain set speed, or applies the brakes intermittently, but it's aggravating beyond words.

Plenty of irritation from stupid drivers who insist on going 45 to 50 MPH in 65 zones for miles in curves and no passing zones, not to mention idiots who pull out in front of oncoming cars causing them to have to slam on the brakes, then go under the speed limit. I noticed driver back East have a tendency to drive much more aggressively, cutting others off and weaving in and out of traffic.

All in all, it was a great trip, even with the annoyances with the car, roads, and drivers. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat, but I'd make doubly sure everything on the car was perfect. I thought it was, but apprently not, even though the dealer checked it out before I left. One thing I can say is that if Infiniti could address the high beam shortcomings, eliminate the front end pushing in curves, and illuminate the steering wheel controls, the F50 would be the best road car in the business. As it is, these shortcomings keep the F50 from being the superb road car it could be. I fully intend to write Infiniti and let them know how disappointed I am in these annoyances which in my book, reduce the driving pleasure on the road. I believe the steering problems (vagueness and serious understeer) and cruise control downhill jerking could be addressed easily, while changing the high beam reflectors and illuminating the steering wheel controls might be cost prohibitive. Regardless, these things should ALL be addressed by Infiniti at either No Charge or at least a subsidized low cost for present owners.

Nice trip George! After my Q I think I'll be moving on to an s600, or an s55...nice report!

[texasoil]

I think the 95 is the same as my '94, and my stock headlights are fantastic on high and low. Check the aim by pointing at a wall, measuring the height and side-to-side alignment. Yours are not correct.

Wandering steering is DEFINITELY not characteristic, by out of alignment front end (feathering?) is probably the cause. Get is set RIGHT. Adjust the camber by using shims as required on inner upperlink mount. Check the tension arm bushings for failure. Steering on these cars IS NOT mushy or imprecise--just the opposite. Maybe steering rack mounting bushings (rubber) have failed?Oil consumption most likely due to excessive oil vaporization (5W30?) Up to 25% loss due to vaporization is LIKELY on high load (higher oil temp) operations.

I REGULARLY get 21 MPG cruising 78-80 MPH on the 90-10 fuel here in Texas, 22.5+ on non-ethanol stuff (premium brands. ) Down here, A/C is essential year round.Great you had a good trip. Very soon, will be unaffordable.

[StarPD]

I think the 95 is the same as my '94, and my stock headlights are fantastic on high and low. Check the aim by pointing at a wall, measuring the height and side-to-side alignment. Yours are not correct.

Wandering steering is DEFINITELY not characteristic, by out of alignment front end (feathering?) is probably the cause. Get is set RIGHT. Adjust the camber by using shims as required on inner upperlink mount. Check the tension arm bushings for failure. Steering on these cars IS NOT mushy or imprecise--just the opposite. Maybe steering rack mounting bushings (rubber) have failed?Oil consumption most likely due to excessive oil vaporization (5W30?) Up to 25% loss due to vaporization is LIKELY on high load (higher oil temp) operations.

I REGULARLY get 21 MPG cruising 78-80 MPH on the 90-10 fuel here in Texas, 22.5+ on non-ethanol stuff (premium brands. ) Down here, A/C is essential year round.Great you had a good trip. Very soon, will be unaffordable.

Thanks for the feedback, but your comments while applicable to G50s are not relevant to the F50. There is no adjustment of front or rear suspension/wheel alignment on the F50. More, while the G50 has exemplary steering, the F50, at least mine, has absoultely TERRIBLE steering. While the G50 is precise and direct, with superb road feel and feedback, the F50 is numb and vague beyond words, and understeer, at least on my 2005 Q45 is excessive.

Fuel mileage on my '94 Q45t was excellent. A similar road trip 4 years ago of 7200 miles though 19 States produced overall mileage door to door, including all local driving on the triip, was 25.5 MPG, at speeds of mostly 75 MPH. Uncommon high headwinds in both directions on this trip reduced fuel mileage to 19 and 20 MPG at 60 MPH, but once out of the headwinds, it jumped to around 24 MPG average. As I mentioned, fighting the headwinds also produced oil consumption of 3 quarts for around 4500 miles, but once out of the headwinds, no further oil was used. As I said, I suspect the extreme load on the engine for such a long time seated the rings, which apparently the PO failed to do by breaking it in properly. I wouldn't expect the rings to seat after 35,000 miles, but it appears they did. I'll monitor oil consumption and fuel mileage now that I'm home, but I suspect they'll both be better than they were before the trip.

[BadQ45t]

25 mph in a 94', that is quite impressive. I couldn't ever get more than 20 in my 92' I drove for 6 months. I am not say BS on that but I think you might have rounded up a little bit since the car was only a 4 speed and rated at 23 by the over-zealous EPA estaimates when new.

I wonder why these newer Infiniti cars burn so much oil??? I have a 1984 300ZX and even when it was leaking oil out of the rear oil seals it never was low enough in between oil changes to worry about. Same thing with my 1997 Q, never a drop off the top when I have checked it....I have been watching my 05' XTerra like a hawk thinking that lots of other folks with VQ style engines burn oil, but again not a drop.

I agree about the east coast, the roads are the WORST. People that live in LA think the road say in the San Fernando Valley are bad, I thought so too until I went to Boston a few times and drove around!!

Great report, how much did you spend on fuel?

[qship96]

I wonder if the rings really did any setting, or was the lower oil consumption on the latter part of your trip really due to putting some miles on the oil and it thickening up due to normal use and oxidation ??????
Modified by qship96 at 6:46 PM 7/19/2008

[maxnix]

There is no adjustment of front or rear suspension/wheel alignment on the F50.

There is adjustment for toe on front and rear and camber on the rear.
Modified by maxnix at 4:11 PM 7/19/2008

[StarPD]

25 mph in a 94', that is quite impressive. I couldn't ever get more than 20 in my 92' I drove for 6 months. I am not say BS on that but I think you might have rounded up a little bit since the car was only a 4 speed and rated at 23 by the over-zealous EPA estaimates when new.

I wonder why these newer Infiniti cars burn so much oil??? I have a 1984 300ZX and even when it was leaking oil out of the rear oil seals it never was low enough in between oil changes to worry about. Same thing with my 1997 Q, never a drop off the top when I have checked it....I have been watching my 05' XTerra like a hawk thinking that lots of other folks with VQ style engines burn oil, but again not a drop.

I agree about the east coast, the roads are the WORST. People that live in LA think the road say in the San Fernando Valley are bad, I thought so too until I went to Boston a few times and drove around!!

Great report, how much did you spend on fuel?

Nope, no rounding up on fuel mileage. Kept exact records of fuel and mileage in that trip in the '94, and really did get 25.5 MPG. Didn't use any measurable oil either. That was a great car, and I miss it. I think I know what helped it though. Shortly after I got it in '96, I had to go to a funeral in LA. I was too sick to drive, and my brother flew to Phoenix and drove us both there. He held it at 135 to 140 MPH all the way there and back. I think that seated the rings because after that, it got terrific fuel mileage all the time, and never used any oil. It's been my experience that running a car very hard when relatively new seats the rings and valves, and can result in excellent performance all the way around, in power, fuel mileage, and low oil consumption. All of my (10 new) Corvettes and Sportbikes over the years responded to hard break-in the same way. Now, I suspect that this '05 Q45 has done the same thing. The high loading of the engine bucking the extreme headwinds for over 5,000 miles ate a lot of fuel and oil at the time, but gradually fuel mileage increased after I left the headwinds to around 25 MPG and oil consumption just stopped. Of course, now I'll monitor fuel mileage and oil consumption to see if my experiences have proven out again. I'll report on it either in this thread or a new one after I have a chance to put some numbers together as time goes by.

The VK has different rings than the VH, much thinner to reduce drag and supposedly increase HP and fuel mileage, but results in oil consumption, and in my case at least, lower fuel mileage so far. Hopefully, working the engine so hard for so long has improved it like it did on my '94 and other carsd and bikes. We'll see.

As for the roads back East, I literally couldn't believe the condition. Badly broken concrete for miles and serious potholes and high ridged bridge transition thresholds just about everywhere. Roads in D.C. were among the worst, but South Bend Indiana takes the dishonors for absolutely shattered roads. Chicago was a close second. It's been a while since I drove back East, and I literally couldn't believe how badly the roads have deteriorated. I suspect the wheel, tire, and suspension component manufacturers are making a fortune supplying replacements for road damaged items there.

[StarPD]

I wonder if the rings really did any setting, or was the lower oil consumption on the latter part of your trip really due to putting some miles on the oil and it thickening up due to normal use and oxidation ??????

Modified by qship96 at 6:46 PM 7/19/2008

You could be right, but I doubt it. Fuel mileage and oil consumption both iomproved after loading the engine so hard for so long. As noted in my previous reply to BadQ45t, my experiences over the years have shown excellent engine performance all the way around from loading the engine hard over an extended period in all my cars and bikes. Until I first got thi8s '05 Q45, none of my vehicles has produced low fuel mileage or oil consumption. I attribute that to seating rings and valves by hard loading the engines. We'll see if I'm right, as I now monitor fuel mileage and oil consumption under similar conditions with my '94 around home.

[StarPD]

There is adjustment for toe on front and rear and camber on the rear.

Modified by maxnix at 4:11 PM 7/19/2008

You are correct of course. I meant to say that there is no adjustment on the front for caster and camber.

Anyone have and suggestions for adjustment of front toe and rear toe and camber to reduce understeer without eating tires?

Am I the only F50 owner who finds understeer excessive on them? I'm suspecting the VDC has some contribution to this condition too. Turning it off and setting the suspension to "Sport" mode seems to mitigate this condtion somewhat. I'm wondering if like some other cars with VDC, turning it off doesn't completely deactivate it, but only reduces it, leaving some of the system in effect.

This car corners almost completely flat, which I dearly love. The understeer however is plain excessive, and ruins the driving experience. I have to actually muscle the car around fast curves, not a good thing. Feels like it wants to actually straighten the car out on curves and run me off the road. If I can cure this, it will be the best car I've ever owned, but as it is, it's seriously flawed.

How about some input from other F50 owners? Is it my car, or do all F50s do this? I know my '94 Q45t was a joy in curves and corners. Not this '05.

[StarPD]

Okay, just ran my fuel receipts.Average mileage for the entire trip was 21.64 MPG. That's running at mostly 60 MPH (I was on almost ALL regular US highways, NOT Interstates) and 65 about 1/3 of the time except for slowing for lower speed limits in towns. The A/C was only on around 1/2 the time, and tires were inflated to 35 front and 38 rear. This average is not exact, but is as of my last gas stop about 150 miles from home, as I did not fuel up on returning yet.

I attribute the low MPG to really bad headwinds most of the way, for approximately 6,000 miles. At one point I estimate headwinds at almost 40 to 45 MPH, with most of it 30 MPH or more. Yes, I know that sounds too high, but my instant fuel mileage for most of the trip read around 19 to 20 MPG, and only the last 1300 miles or so went up enough to bring the average up to the 21.64 MPG average, when the headwinds finally diminished.

As I stated in my earlier post, on two occasions after I headed West from the Mpls/St. Paul area to Montana, I saw a flock of birds actually flying their little hearts out into the wind and not moving over the ground at all. Anyone have any idea what that might indicate for wind speed?

High oil consumption bears out my headwind estimate, using as I stated 3 quarts for the first 4500 miles. After I reached Montana on the way home, where the headwinds stopped, I used NO oil.

I intend to take the car in for an oil change this week, and will monitor fuel and oil consumption to see if my theory that loading the engine so hard for so long did in fact seat the rings is correct, and will report either here or in a new thread.

FWIW, I'm not concerned about putting 7345 miles on the oil, as I use Mobil 1 "Extended Performance" 5W30 oil, which is supposed to be good for 15,000 miles in highway use. Surprisingly, the oil is not as dirty as I expected after all that hard use fighting the nasty headwinds.

Another note: I've mentioned before that I had European Detail Specialists in Phoenix put a paint protectant called "Glare" on my car. After returning home, after driving through 5 heavy rainstorms in 4 weeks for 7345 miles, the car looks like it was washed a week ago. Except for the heavy accumulation of bugs on the front bumper and mirrors, which I removed nightly, it stayed clean. The dirt just didn't stick to the paint. I am amazed.

[StarPD]

Finally, some good news.Took my car in for service. Seems "Rocky Raccoon" (what my service writer calls him on the R.O.) tore off a small spash shield and took out 6 clips from the main one. While in the shop, I had a complete wheel alignment done. Got an estimate to repair the damage to the front bumper. Apparently, since the (cracked) narrow black plastic lower grille is part of the bumper, it cannot be repaired. The entire front bumper has to be replaced. Body shop estimate is around $880.

Service writer reminded me that it should be covered under Comprehensive in my insurance policy, and a claim for that won't raise my rates. So off I go to Farmers with my estimate in hand. Adjuster looks at car, goes in his office for 10 minutes, and comes out with two checks. One for the bumper replacement, and one for what I already paid to get the splash shield replaced and clips replaced, AND the 4 wheel alignment. My deductible was only $120. So now I have the money to fix everything, and got a free alignment to boot.

I think I like Farmers.

Also, Discount Tire balanced my wheels N/C. Good thing too, as they were off by 1/2 to 1 oz.

Car goes into body shop next week, and Farmers has already notified Enterprise they're paying for car rental for 5 days @ $25 per day on a direct billing, which will get me at least a Chevy Malibu.

Since insurance is paying for front bumper replacement, now while the car is in the shop, I can afford to have the damage to the rear bumper fixed from when I backed into a parking lot cover support pole. That's $780, but I can handle that. I'll have to wait 30 days for the fresh paint to cure, but after that will take it back to European Detail Specialist to have it completely detailed again after my trip and the body repairs.

It's a relief to know my car will once again be as new at least cosmetically.