My Ka-T and me = Nothing, but problems

[d-ta]

So after the long ordeal of trying to figure out why my KA-T wouldn't start (due to busted FPR), fixed that and now here's some more symptoms:

1. Car idles at about 1k. Before I had a problem when I turned on the lights. This caused the idle to drop and jump about sporadically. However, it seems to have gone away. On the other hand, once I rev the car and let go of the gas, the rpm just drops and I stall.

2. Thick white smoke. Burning coolant from what I've read up on, but I'm not sure as to where it's coming from besides maybe a blown headgasket?

3. Car runs rich. Smells like gas and spark plugs are black and smell like fuel. I replaced the coolant temp sensor today and didn't notice a difference so I'm assuming this might be from my bad o2 sensor.

now here's the ecu codes from my check engine light:

1. ECU Code 12 (MAF)

I just checked the ecu codes again today and this one suddenly came up out of nowhere. Not sure what's up with it. Should I just get a new maf, clean the maf, or check the wiring?

2. ECU Code 25 (IACV)

I cleaned the IACV per these instructions and I'm still throwing this code. The only thing is that I wasn't able to get the engine to warm up to operating temperatures when I did it. I had the car idle for 15+ minutes and the needle barely moved above the lowest mark on the temp gauge.

3. ECU Code 33 (Front o2 Sensor)

Getting a new Bosch one with OEM plug in sometime this week. Hope it solves the running rich problem.

Alright and just to give you some background, here's my setup:

T3 super 60JGS Tools log manifoldModified NPR FMIC1g DSM BOVSR 370cc InjectorsJWT ECU programmed for 370cc Inj and Stock S14 MAF3" downpipe, testpipe, and exhaust

It's been several weeks since I've driven my car and bumming rides or borrowing cars to get to school and work hasn't been very convenient so if anyone can offer any advice, I'd greatly appreciate it. Yeah, I admit I'm definitely a retard for having done this to my daily driver, but I really didn't expect it to give me so many problems. I can say that I was frustrated to the point where I was considering converting it back to stock, parting it out, and selling the car. But now it seems like I can almost see "the light at the end of the tunnel" so I'm gonna try to stick it out till it works. Once again, thanks for the help!
Modified by d-ta at 10:54 PM 2/27/2005

[hysteria]

i had the same problem with the car idling really weirdly, and then stalling when the gas is released abruptly... it was a crappy aicv... i took off the intake manifold and removed the iacv to see that the control spring was rusted like crazy and broken in two. so i cut some sheet metal and drilled holes in it to cover up the passage for the iacv. i reconnected everything as it was when i took it off, but i just sealed over the iacv valve with the sheet metal and silicon. i then of course adjusted the idle screw so the car idles at about 800 rpm. since then everything has been great. the car has not stalled once and it runs perfectly. i don't have a fast warm up now but i can live with letting my car warm up slowly... it only takes like 5 minutes on cold days anyway.

the white smoke is usually burning coolant... check your coolant level to see what the deal is... it wil be obviously lower if it is burning coolant.

from what i've heard jwt tunes pretty rich, but i have had no personal experience.

yeah so run a compression test to see about your bottom end functioning properly.

other than that i think what you have to do is pretty obvious... get it running properly. good luck.

[skatanic28]

what does the white smoke smell like? sweet or like fuel?if it smells like fuel, pull the 370's and check out your injector o-rings. check your oil too, see if that smells like fuel at all.

if that all checks out, definately check for oil/coolant mixing.

[d-ta]

what does the white smoke smell like? sweet or like fuel?if it smells like fuel, pull the 370's and check out your injector o-rings. check your oil too, see if that smells like fuel at all.

if that all checks out, definately check for oil/coolant mixing.

smoke smells more sweet than it does like fuel

oil smells like fuel though

[hysteria]

your oil is going to smell like fuel even if the engine is fine. that's not a good indication. it's a good bet you are burning coolant. look in your exhaust... is it more watery than normal? is there oily residue everywhere? oil smoke is less white and more blueish. do a compression test like i said. check your fluid levels. is oil low? is colant low? etc.... there are many things to check. get a mechanic to do all of this for you if you don't have a compression tester. they will tell you what's leaking.

[skatanic28]

your oil is going to smell like fuel even if the engine is fine. that's not a good indication.

if it smells very stongly of fuel it indicates extreme richness, such as a fuel leak. ive never really noticed my oil having a strong smell of gas to it during routine changes, but maybe im just not very observant. just tryin to help.

[hysteria]

i wasn't bashing you dude, i was just saying that that might not be a very good indication... there are others i thought were better, so i listed them...

don't take it personally i meant nothing of it, sorry if i sounded condescending or anything like that.

[d-ta]

your oil is going to smell like fuel even if the engine is fine. that's not a good indication. it's a good bet you are burning coolant. look in your exhaust... is it more watery than normal? is there oily residue everywhere? oil smoke is less white and more blueish. do a compression test like i said. check your fluid levels. is oil low? is colant low? etc.... there are many things to check. get a mechanic to do all of this for you if you don't have a compression tester. they will tell you what's leaking.

changed the oil a few days ago and i just re-checked oil levels now and it seems fine. coolant level should be fine as the reservoir is maxed out, but yeah i'll go try a compression test and leakdown test like you've said. i'd hope for the best now, but i don't wanna disappoint myself anymore

[RMiller]

You got a code 12, switch your maf with another and see if it fixes the problem. You got a code 33, get a new o2 sensor. You know you have problems, fix what you know is broken.

[S14tat]

the smoke i would have to say its most likely the residual oil left over from the manufacturing process. all newly installed parts like headers, turbo manifolds, and turbos will smoke when you turn it on for the first time.

[d-ta]

the smoke i would have to say its most likely the residual oil left over from the manufacturing process. all newly installed parts like headers, turbo manifolds, and turbos will smoke when you turn it on for the first time.

hm i c...but the thing is, this isn't the first time i've turned it on. the car ran fine for a couple hours till it started acting up. however, i'd seriously hope this is the source of the smoking

[hysteria]

it could very well be new stuff smoking.... my turbo alone smoked for a few days. i'm hoping for you too, but anyway are you 100% positive it's smoke? does it do it all the time no matter how long it's driven or whatever? it could just be water (steam)... i mean for complete combustion of fuel, for every 1 gallon of fuel you burn you will make a gallon of water. and when it's humid outside it will be more... it could just be excess water in the exhaust that evaporate when you gas it or whatever. this is not likely, but i want to suggest as many things as possible so you can check everything out to see.

hey by the way if the problems get you down just try to motivate yourself to learn more... of course there are some times where some little thing happens and i say screw this i want a new car or i want something i don't have to fool with, but that's usually when i am just having a bad day. i try to embrace problems because i like feeling secure with my car and knowing that if something breaks chances are that i can fix it, and i'll just end up learning more. once you work on cars for a while and understand all of the systems you can easily diagnose problems and fix them quickly by a process of elimination. good luck.

another thing is that i wouldn't just go out and buy all the new parts that your car threw codes about at once... sometimes certain problems just cause other problems also, and once you fix the source then the others will be fixed also. O2 sensors and mafs are expensive so if you could borrow a friends or something like that or take it somewhere to get tested first that would be the thing to do. if you pissed away $100 on a new o2 sensor and however much on a new mafs and the problems were still there it would really suck.

[hysteria]

about the car not heating up to normal temp... your thermostat may just be stuck open.

give us an update on how things are coming.

[goshoryukenx]

Wow, after reading all that. I just know I will have similar problems with mine when I get it started. Good luck with yours, test everything out first. Get it checked by a mechanic.. and like Hysteria said.. don't spend all your money on new parts because a lot of times there's 1 simple annoying solution. The one thing you dont think of.. is uaually the problem. For example my car would run really funny and idle wierd and stall at stop signs when slowing down.. all because of a vacuum leak, but I only found it after cleaning out iacv, replacing o2 sensor, replacing fuel filter, replacing distributor cap and rotor, etc. Good luck, and keep us posted. Don't lose faith... we ALL have problems.

[d-ta]

about the car not heating up to normal temp... your thermostat may just be stuck open.

give us an update on how things are coming.

as you said earlier, i totally pissed away my money on a new o2 sensor and maf and it still doesn't run right but thanks for the pep talk. i truly appreciate it, as i'm on my last bit of patience with this car right now.

as for the car, it still stalls whenever i let off the gas so now all i have left to point the finger at is the iacv having gone bad since cleaning it didn't do anything. also, some ppl on other forums have mentioned that i should have hooked up the iacv to my cold pipe instead of my intake pipe. any truth to this?

furthermore, i'm pretty sure it's smoke. it smokes a tad at idle and whenever i get on the gas. it's not a large amount like when i was driving around with a bad turbo and burning oil, but it's noticeable. then again, it's been quite some time since i've actually driven the car around town rather than just around the block to make sure something i replaced actually fixed the problem. so i possibly haven't given enough time for the water in the exhaust to evaporate.

[goshoryukenx]

Sorry to hear you blew your money on those parts.

Did you take the car to a shop yet? Take it to a decent place that knows their stuff.

PS - Re-check the codes and see if you still get the MAF and 02 codes.

[d-ta]

Sorry to hear you blew your money on those parts.

Did you take the car to a shop yet? Take it to a decent place that knows their stuff.

that's the ultimate last resort. by that time, i don't even know if it's worth it to throw more money into the car as opposed to parting it out, selling the chassis, and getting a new car. then again, i've come so far with this car that once i get the ka-t running right, it's just where i want the car to be. decisions, decisions...

edit: rechecked codes earlier and it's giving me 55 aka "All is good"

[goshoryukenx]

The money on the MAF and 02 wasn't a complete waste then.

I didn't say go spend oodles of cash at the shop... go there.. see what they tell you and drive it home. Get back online and let us know. You get them to diagnose it and we will help you solve the prob. You can find parts cheaper and I'm sure you can install it/fix it yourself if it's not a big problem.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

also, some ppl on other forums have mentioned that i should have hooked up the iacv to my cold pipe instead of my intake pipe. any truth to this?

Yes, this is true. All three of the components that control idle were not designed to handle boost pressure. To equalize things, they need to see boost from both sides. If you have made any boost, I would suspect that the idle controls have been damaged.

[hysteria]

yeah like ivan said...anything that would be part of the intake manifold you want on the boost side... if you put the idle line somewhere else it may cause idle problems for sure...

make sure that all of the air that makes it to your intake manifold passes through the mafs before getting there... this means make sure there are tight seals on all of the intake tubing, make sure there are no vacuum leaks, make sure there is no way any air can get into the engine without going through the filter, then through the mafs, etc.

give us an update, and ask questions if you have any.

[d-ta]

okay so i got some pics to just give everyone an idea of what it looks like on my end:

the big mistake

what it looks like overall. notice the long lines that run across the front of the engine

and finally, that red line from earlier at it's source.

i'll look it up after i post this, but just in case i don't find it, does anyone know what that red line is actually for and if i should also have that plumbed up onto my cold pipe?

also, the little breather filter on my valve cover, should i just have it routed into the cold pipe as well or is it fine to leave it there with a filter on it? i've noticed setups that have both options, filter or piped into cold pipe, so i just wanna make sure to know if this is right BEFORE i get the nipples welded into the coldpipe. wouldn't make sense in making two trips to the welder when i can get it all done in one shot, if ya know what i mean.

oh and should i have the recirc on the bov angled toward the turbo inlet or is it fine where it sits? someone on FA recommended that i do this because of air turbulence issues with the maf.

well, that seems to be it for now. like i said earlier, i'm having nipples for iacv welded onto my coldpipe tomorrow and HOPEFULLY i won't have to replace that iacv...cuz that intake manifold scares me with the jungle of vacuum lines running all over it other than that, gonna get started on replacing the rear main seal. guess i better order up a new clutch while i'm at it since i doubt the stock one will last very long with the turbo on.

again, thanks for all the responses! you guys rock!

[hysteria]

you DO NOT want your valve cover pressurized, so if you do take the little filter off a good thing to do would be to make your own catch tank from a glass jar or gatorade bottle, and then run a lione from that into the intake side... as long as you're not leaking oil from your valve cover vent though, i'd say the little filter thingy is just fine. lots of people have those.

the air turbulance thing makes sense if i read what you're saying correctly. i'd have it recirculate toward the turbo if i had a recirc bov ( i have atmos.).

you know the intake manifold looked like a beast when i tackled it before also, but once i took everything off (including the whole manifold) it was very simple and everything was so easy to do... seriously doing the new vacuum setup was a 30 minute job after i had the manifold off. that's why i redid all of my vacuum stuff and removed egr, because it cleaned up the engine a lot. now if i have a problem it will be manageable, rather than my pulling my hair out because i can't get my hand into those tight spaces, or i cut myself on things i can't see.

about that red line. did you remove it from the coal canister in the front or where did it come from? there are like 3 or 4 hard metal vacuum lines under the intake manifold that run back to the egr, map sensor, egr control, and the little valves that are around the pcv system in the manifold. they are all linked together and run in the weirdest ways up to the charcoal canister and then all over to control vacuum operated things around the car... i can't tell which line exactly that one is, but i can say that if it is not hooked up to a vacuum operated device then it's hooked up wrong... if you don't need that line for anything and it's just sucking in air then that's a vacuum leak, and you should just plug it up because it serves no purpose right now other than being a pesky leak in the manifold vacuum.

any more questions ask... and pictures are good, that was easy to see. thanks

[d-ta]

well the red line is originally one of the lines that connected to the piping in the intake as seen here:

*couldn't find a pic of my own engine bay so I borrowed one from "austinsilvia's" photo gallery as seen here

also seen from the fsm:



I'm still not sure what that line is for. i tried looked it up in the fsm, but couldn't find anything on it other than pictures of it. either way, it's getting routed to the coldpipe now. hopefully should have the pipes back by tomorrow so i can throw it on and see if that solves the stalling issues. if not, new iacv/block off iacv again, thanks for the advice

[hysteria]

oh that line... let me look at my car to see what it's for... i can't think off the top of my head. probably something to do with idle though... i can't remember... i'll tell you either later today or tomorrow.

[d-ta]

well, i got the vacuum lines hooked up to the cold pipe now.





i tried starting the car after that and it idled all funky as hell. i got pissed, but a friend came over and helped me brainstorm as to what could be up with it. we played around with the idle, trying to raise it so that whenever i let off the gas, the rpm wouldn't drop to the point where it stalls. wasn't sure where the idle adjust screw was so i hope this was it:



messing with that didn't do too much and my idle was all funky. idled highest at 1200rpm to between 500-600rpm. so we thought maybe the timing was off? didn't have a timing gun so we just moved the distributor around till something worked. we finally got it to work where the screw in this picture was almost allll the way to the right:



so i test drive it and surprisingly it stops stalling whenever i let off the gas. the rpm drops a lot still, but not to the point where it stalls out. goes down to about 500rpm then back up to the 1000rpm idle. so i'm glad my car is once again conveniently mobile. however, it feels like there's no more boost. i can hear the turbo spool, but the car just doesn't pick up at all. i guess i better get a timing gun to get it set to spec and hopefully fixed.

so after taking a couple test drives around, i notice oil on the turbo and downpipe as well as the steering linkage, etc.





there's no oil coming out of the feed line so my only assumption was that my rear main seal or oil return leak has caused oil to shoot up when i drove it. not only this, but the car still smokes like crazy whenever i get on the gas. thick, white smoke. someone mentioned that having the upper timing chain guide go out on me would cause it to burn coolant somehow, but i wasn't quite sure why this would be, but i can hear the upper timing chain guide rattle like crazy. correlation? perhaps

so that's what's been up lately. still gotta replace that stupid rear main seal that leaks profusely and maybe throw in a clutch that'll adequately hold down the increase in hp while the transmission is out.

Modified by d-ta at 8:00 PM 3/5/2005
Modified by d-ta at 8:01 PM 3/5/2005

[hysteria]

hey, so i think that line we were talking about before is for egr... that just came to me a second ago, but i have not looked at my car to make sure... i faintly remember disconnecting that line because it was egr and i removed my entire egr system...i could be wrong though... it's been a while.

get that timing set correctly!!!! you're probably missing out on a lot of power and torque because of the incorrect timing. i can't tell you how much of a difference that makes. oh but follow some guidelines for setting up the timing on turbo ka's... i've heard people talking about 1-2 degress less advanced when they are running at about 7 psi, so if the base timing is supposed to be set at 20 degrees advanced, then set yours just a fraction lower than that...~18-19. be sure to disconnect the tps when setting timing.

as far as the oil leak just replace gaskets and things one at a time, because i've had a leak before that looked like 100 things were leaking and it was only like 2. other than that good to hear things are coming along positively.

[d-ta]

quick update:

okay so i got timing set back at 20. when i tried it any lower, it seemed like the turbo didn't come on at all. at least at 20 it comes on at 4k rpm

also, when i was waiting for the car to warm up in the garage, i look at the exhaust manifold and from cylinder 1 has FUEL FIZZLING OUT OF IT (between the block and manifold)! i could see it slowly bubbling out. wtf?! so i pull injector 1 and lo and behold, the bottom o-ring has this chunk missing from it. rawr! i guess why it'd smelled profusely of gas in the engine bay whenever the car was running. oh wells, i think i'm gonna go replace it now. i'll report back later after replacing them and taking it for a test drive.

[d-ta]

WOOOOOOOOOO!11111 IT WORKS!!1 stupid injector o-rings were torn so i replaced them all and now the car pulls like a sweet mofo AND doesn't stall when i left off the gas. only thing it does is idle real high. 1 - 1.5k rpm ish, blow white smoke, and leak oil, but at least i have a car to drive again funny thing is that i started out w/ a full tank this morning and i went around the block 2-3 times and i used about 1/3 of the tank. man, the problem should've been ridiculously obvious. i feel kinda retarded now haha.

anyways, big thanks to all you guys for the input, advice, and motivation. i'm so glad i didn't give up on the car like i was going to. i <3 you all! hysteria, thanks for sticking with me on this. words cannot express how thankful i am to know there are ppl who are willing to go out of their way to help others. if i ever roll out to austin, i owe ya a drink rawr i got all mushy. time to go drive the car some more

[hysteria]

eh the thing about cars is that most of the time the problems should be obvious but a lot of times they aren't. congrats on the good running car. back out the idle screw a bit and see if the idle calms down. be sure to follow the correct procedure when adjusting idle and timing. anyway have fun with the car, and if you ever have more questions you know where to ask.

any clues as to the origin of the smoke?

at this point at least the car is functioning correctly, so fixing all the little problems (leaks, and misc stuff) can all be done without worrying about it fixing the car or whatever. just focus on one thing at a time because if you do to many things at once and you mess something up it's hard to retrace your steps sometimes. fixes get really easy when you just take a step back and say "what did i just do to make the car act this way?". good luck