my fully built N/A KA24de. have some questions

[Marahutay]

Heya i just finished building my KA with
kelford 272 stage 2 turbo cams
.05 over bore CP pistons 9.1.1
supertech valves, dual valve springs(meaning i have 32 valve springs) and new retainers
Eagle rods
new rod and main bearings
valves .05 over /w 3 angle valve job
fully balanced crank shaft
brand new timing set
cometic head gasket
ARP Head studs

to make it clear, this motor is NOT going to stay N/A for long. otherwise i would not have those cams and i would have a different set of pistons. the rings are gapped for 20psi of boost.
what i need to know is if i put this motor into my 1991 s13 to replace my 100% stock KA will i have to change anything in order for this to run? or will this be a plug and play?
Remember. No turbo is going to be involved with this for a while.
also. what might my redline be with all these parts/what type of power can i expect with this N/A?
and how might be the best way of breaking in this motor once its in and running? what kind of oil should i use?
thanks.

[lexcrob]

ur basicly running stock compression ratio ...the flow probly isnt icreased that much i would imagine it will run GREAT! as long as you play with the mechanical timing a bit probly gonna need to be a bit advanced
^im kinda guessin on that one

Id say...with bolt ons intake/exhaust 2.5-3in back id say...junk with those cams -ahh 150 to wheels ball park at best
^turbo cams have higher duration not lift so not great for NA

Break in really depends who you talk to and where you google. Anyways i did extensive searching and asking around etc. machine shops whole 9. You can search for yourself but all in all heres how i broke my b16a2 in after a ring/bearing job DIY HONE.
-Start that beast up u worked on for probly 20hours at least(i did) lots of boring cleaning and spec.ing.
-Have ur dad crank that sucker up stand back few feet in fear ....yell for dad to cut it off 5qrts oil on ground...

-learn a lesson always get NEW dowel pins for ur head....4 hours later- crank it up again hahahaha good to go

1 idle for a few sec check oil psi light might take a sec
2 bring up to 2-3k ish till it warms up
3 turn off check for leaks! problems (if it ran like crap now u can fix it dont turn it right back off for break in)
4 if all good go drive it around moderate load not like redline id say 3-6k load>>then engine break for bout 5 miles
5 after that i ran if almost all out just dont rev to high pretty much drive it like ur autocrossin in the country
6 stay away from traffic or run it at night till you get to bout 30-50 miles then change the oil
7 drive normal again maybe little more engine breaking loading not lots idlein dont be afraid to GET IN IT(i went to drag strip ran like 8 passes with i think 37 miles LOL)
8 change oil again at like 500 now ur pretty much broken in all way in
9 i changed one last time at 800 then switched to mobil syn. at 3000 DONE!


Now my buddy bought it its sittin at like 7000k after rebuild and it pulls harder than anyother civic around here for stock bottom with only cams. Thats what i did thats how im gonna keep doin em. read up i dont think it realy matters that much just dont idle for "free rev who knows MOTO web site ? lol run it full out like a track from get go.....

Oil any brand conventional oil weight? i used 5w-30 chang it 3x then run syn especially for boost get it DONE! good luck

i had some time to kill kinda long ehh maybe it will help kinda a rant......

[lexcrob]

how high can you rev. well id say 2k over stock redline but from what i hear ka's dont like revin high and lookin at a na dyno they stop makin power around 6000..turbo tho depends on the trim and when it spools what the compressor map looks like...

if its big which id imagine it is lookin at ur bottom endit will require you to rev high thus raising peak power range essentially till you hit a wall which is gonna be the rev limit for valvetrain??? or when turbo stops making boost thus pointless to go high so..
..no idea but its a worthwhile upgrade for shur hope yo dont pop it thats quite bit of $ im gonna do a few more builds before i spend that much $$$ GOODLUCK again get some more opinions for break in i just wanted to share what i READ.

[Marahutay]

how high can you rev. well id say 2k over stock redline but from what i hear ka's dont like revin high and lookin at a na dyno they stop makin power around 6000..turbo tho depends on the trim and when it spools what the compressor map looks like...

if its big which id imagine it is lookin at ur bottom endit will require you to rev high thus raising peak power range essentially till you hit a wall which is gonna be the rev limit for valvetrain??? or when turbo stops making boost thus pointless to go high so..
..no idea but its a worthwhile upgrade for shur hope yo dont pop it thats quite bit of $ im gonna do a few more builds before i spend that much $$$ GOODLUCK again get some more opinions for break in i just wanted to share what i READ.

i made a copycat version of 240sx motoring's cylinder head from one of their track cars, which they claimed held an increasing power curve past 7800 Rpms. however i knew nothing about their bottom end, which is why i was asking what i might be capeable of with my balanced crankshaft along with the cylinder head

thanks for the breakin advice i really wanna make sure i get this thing broken in right cause i plan on having this motor running as a daily for a while
but i really need to know if im going to be able to do a plug and play on this? will i need to replace any censors or anything? im really crossing my fingers and hoping i get a break from all the problems getting this motor put together and nothing will need to be changed in this department

[240sxAli4Life]

NO THAT GUY IS STUPID!! YOU CANT REDLINE YOUR CAR 2K OVER 7K, YOUR RUNNING STOCK COMPRESSION STILL, YOU WILL BLOW YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!!! I SAY STILL SHIFT AT 7K JUST TO BE SAFE, I WOULDNT GO PAST 7.2K IF YOU HAVE TO!! AND USE ROYAL PURPLE FULL SYNTHETIC!! 5W 30!!

[Gabes13]

Power drops really fast after 5.5k with stock cams. With cams, you'll probably get it up to 7.2-ish k. The ka has a pretty long stroke so there's little benefit from revving so high.

[neverlift]

ur cams are gonna hurt you ,while na. But being able to rev higher should help, the bore job was a good idea if planning to rev the s*** like a honda. IT evens up the bore/stroke(some). Stock cams dont help but the main factor is the half counter weighted crank that was balanced by a drunk japanese guy. The dyno of na ka's show the crank trying to rip itself to bits..

so what was the crank balanced to(rpm wise) and was the entire rotating assembly balanced

[Marahutay]

it has been balanced within half a gram
and you really dont think ill change from a stock 155 hp with the bore + valve job?

[Ajax]

Its the cams that will be doing the most changing of the powerband here. I doubt the valve job will do much, and the overbore won't be altering much either. I'd guess that at best, the bore and valve work will allow the engine to rev a bit better, and you might get a bit more power off-peak, but I doubt the engine will improve much over stock peak. However, it looks like you've got all the right stuff in place for when you do go turbo.

[Marahutay]

man thats a bummer, guys at the machine shop said id have almost 200 horses NA.
i guessed around 170hp. wouldnt an increase in cam lift duration increase air flow better than factory cams regardless?
but anyway, for the second part of my question. Will this be a plug and play operation? or will i need to tweak things for this to run normally untill i get a turbo setup?

[Ajax]

You will get better flow, and in truth, I'm not familiar with those cams. But in general, cams will shift powerbands around, but won't give you an incredible amount of extra power (looking at 15 extra at the absolute most at peak, assuming you have accompanying mods to help out- do you have intake/exhaust mods?). Are you referring to 200/170 hp at the crank or the wheels? There's a big difference.
I think the car will run on that setup without further tuning, but it won't be as efficient as with tuning. It depends on how radical those cams are. From what I've heard, nissan's ecu can handle adjustments like this with some safety, but its no replacement for actual tuning.

[Crazyirish]

Cams designed for turbo applications dont do very well in NA. NA relies on a bit of overlap to help pull air into the cylinder. This is typically eliminated in turbo cams to get the hottest, highest velocity exhaust possible to feed the turbo. I would imagine you might make a bit more hp up top, but probably lose quite a bit down low.

Also KAs are held back by the stock counterweight configuration. Even if the engine if fully balanced, the lack of counterweights on every crank throw induces vibration at higher rpms. (A problem larger displacement 4 cylinders have even when fully counterweighted). I would be careful much past 7k even with good internals. Winding it out every once in awhile might be ok, but sustained high revs will kill your motor quick.

[Marahutay]

i ment crank wise. sorry i didnt specify.
as far as tuning goes, what would you reccomend i get that would be good for NA tuning and also get me good head way with boosting in the future?
what are my ecu tuning options as far as a unit that i can use while NA, and also with my future turbo set up? im shootin for 400 or even 500+hp here. so what should i start researching into ecu wise?
thanks a bunch for the help.

[Rev_D21]

NO THAT GUY IS STUPID!! YOU CANT REDLINE YOUR CAR 2K OVER 7K, YOUR RUNNING STOCK COMPRESSION STILL, YOU WILL BLOW YOUR ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!!! I SAY STILL SHIFT AT 7K JUST TO BE SAFE, I WOULDNT GO PAST 7.2K IF YOU HAVE TO!! AND USE ROYAL PURPLE FULL SYNTHETIC!! 5W 30!!

[Crazyirish]

i ment crank wise. sorry i didnt specify.
as far as tuning goes, what would you reccomend i get that would be good for NA tuning and also get me good head way with boosting in the future?
what are my ecu tuning options as far as a unit that i can use while NA, and also with my future turbo set up? im shootin for 400 or even 500+hp here. so what should i start researching into ecu wise?
thanks a bunch for the help.

A lot of guys swear by nistune. What sort of budget are you talking about?

[Marahutay]

i shouldnt say im on an unlimited budget, but spending i think 3 or 4000$ now on the motor, i am just saving money on the side and trying to buy the best parts for the money. no over priced greddy stuff, but im not goin ebay prices/quality either. if i need to spend another 6000 to get this thing running right, so be it. yannowatimeen? i started this project almost two years ago. i know im probablly going to spend at least 1000 on a turbo.However i was looking at http://www.240sxmotoring.com/t3tu50.html.
But anyway. if you didnt have unlimited money, but werent afraid to spend a pretty penny once you have it saved up, what would you guys get?

[neverlift]

hy35 holset IIRC cheap and good for 450whp. no experience. But a nice t3/to4 maybe??? I am on a 40 dollar turbo airsearch but still its not always price...

[Marahutay]

but is it reliable?
this car is going to be a daily. (untill i get a wrx)
thats the problem with building something like this. i dont wanna buy what puts out the most power for a short period of time for cheaper. i would rather buy something that puts out less power for more money that will last longer.
i dont wanna push out 400-500 horses all the time. i just wanna be able to for when that vette pulls up next to me and thinks he's got game

[neverlift]

get your arse in the kat forum and read. I like garrett.... others like hx,and some like turbonetics... Noone should pick your turbo out, its not their car... TOO many things matter on a turbo car.

[lexcrob]

WRX = FAIL i work on them things all day im a subaru dealer tech

Heads up the newest sti's do not like to be messsed with at all trust me bye ring lands.
The newest body style none sti wrx SUCK transmission hehehe dont launch to hard.

200hp to the wheels is alot faster than you would think weight reduction, lsd, and wide tires. Go ka-t NA is just not worth it i finally gave in i even pulled out of my rebuild to opt for a donor engine.

Go with oem parts my want to get list:

sr20det s13 t25<--stock boost 7psi i think so that what i be at
stock sr20 manifold-ka24 manifold-HACK weld together --saw a guy do it looks like im GAME
dsm bov
ebay FMIC
voltech FMU 10:1 or 8:1 not shur yet
Walbro of course^
megan downpipe (bolts on just like sr)
TAP the pan JGY!

GO TO TOWN easy cheap effective for low power turbo lag...... whats turbo lag

200-220hp DONE whats not to love about that list 95 fuel psi probly be "kinda safe"

The real question is would a narrrow band work to monitor A/F a wideband would kill this budget build list. INPUT!!!!!

[neverlift]

omfg

[J90lude]

Lessons learned here. Don't carry your car to stupid a** mechanics and don't use turbo cams if your not going to be boosted.

[Marahutay]

what about apexi SAFC neo?
would that work well NA

[Crazyirish]

SAFCs aren't real popular amongst the turbo nissan crowd. Besides, what are those, like 3 or 4 hundred bux? At that price point you're within spitting distance of some real engine management. Most of the popular rom tunes can be had for around 500 bux. Nistune can be had for a few dollars more.