My driving La-Z-Boy adventure.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello All,This week I drove from Sarasota,Fl to Charlotte, N.C to pick up a pair of Martin Logan speakers. If not familiar, they really are quite amazing with an excellent WAF (wife acceptance factor) Given that the boxes are 6 feet tall and 4 feet wide, the M would not do. A call to Enterprise later I am now piloting a 2008 GMC Yukon to the lovely Charlotte metroplex. All I can say is I truly felt like I was indeed driving a La-Z-Boy. Maybe it was simply the seats and lack of oomph, but, I abhored it. The base 5.3 felt so, so slow. Last night got back in my trusty car and god did I miss it. I am embarrased to say that the Yukon seemed much easier to park and might even have a better turning radius. Usually, when going from a G loaner car to mine I am so happy to be back in the M. From the Yukon, it was grace. Also took for granted just how much I love the seats in our cars. Sorry if this is off topic it is just with all of the M.B bashing and such it seemed a good time to post about something we can all rail against, SUV's.Cheers,Mark

Modified by Mark Linkous at 3:11 PM 11/8/2007
Modified by Mark Linkous at 3:12 PM 11/8/2007

[szh]

a pair of Martin Logan speakers. If not familiar, they really are quite amazing with an amazing WAF (wife acceptance factor) Given that the boxes are 6 feet tall and 4 feet wide

Off-topic, but ...

You are a lucky guy if she is willing to accept the Martin Logans in your house!!

Before I got married, I had Acoustat Model 3 electrostatic speakers ... 72 inches tall and 36 inches wide (albeit only 4 inches deep!) in my living room, and a large Velodyne ULD-18 18" sub-woofer in the corner of the room.

After I got married, with a lot of effort, I was able to convince my wife to keep the Acoustats - for a while. Eventually, I decided to sell them myself when my son was born ... I did not like the idea of having multiple kilovolt screens around the house with a toddler running around. My wife loved the idea of the sale!

Recently, she decided that the Velodyne was too big for our family room and it is now gone too!

Oh, well.

Z

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,A fellow audiophile. Right on! Totally understand the voltage thing. At least with the Logan's, they claim, that the speakers put out less static electricity than a television. Whether or not this is propaganda, I do not know. The new gen Logan's are relatively smaller with a powered woofer starting at the midbass. I have always wanted a full range panel, but, the size and expense is insane.Cheers and sorry to dork out,M.L

[szh]

At least with the Logan's, they claim, that the speakers put out less static electricity than a television.

That is good! The Acoustat speaker cloth was white, and I was always cleaning them regularly too ... dust would settle on them in a heartbeat. Martin Logans have typically had black cloth ... probably less of a problem in this regard.

Whether or not this is propaganda, I do not know. The new gen Logan's are relatively smaller with a powered woofer starting at the midbass.

True! Most of the Martin Logan line has usually had a sub-woofer of some sort built in, as I recall. But I am not certain of that.

I have always wanted a full range panel, but, the size and expense is insane.

Yup! The Acoustat 2+2, 1+1 and others (like the Speakerlab 3) full-range electrostatics were very large, but sounded awesome. I ended up with the Acoustat 3 because they were a bit smaller in height (my old house did not fit the model 2+2 at 94" tall), although were still sorta full-range - dropped off below about 40 to 50Hz while the largers ones would go down to about 30 Hz very cleanly.

Eventually, I added the Velodyne ULD-18, partly because the excursion of the panel at low frequencies would occasionally cause panel contact with the high-voltage grid - no arcing, but it sounded poor at high volumes. The sub-woofer blended in beautifully (separate amp in the Velodyne) that it was an excellent way to go! I set it to cross-over at 80Hz or so, and that made the Acoustat's even better sounding overall.

Z

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,I believe the last full range Martin Logan panel speaker was the CLS IIz. All since have been hybrid (panel/pistionic driver) In the ESL line, the Summit ($10,000), and the Vantage($5000) both have powered woofers. The Vista in the ESL line has an unpowered woofer. Martin Logan has gone "downmarket" as well with their Design series which is available at many Best Buy's under the Magnolia AV part of the store. While easier to drive than before, the ESL series still dip to around 1.2 ohms in the upper frequencies. Cheers,Audiodork

[exbmwdude]

Sell the wife, not the speakers . I've got a house full of vintage JBLs and luckily the wife is a sucker for some nice loud classic rock. The younger generation (raised on ipods) is stunned when they come over and hear the classics on vinyl through tubes on the big 250Tis. Guess we've got more than a few audio-holics here .

Wish Infiniti had a deal with Harman like Lexus and MB. Those new Mark Levinson systems in the Lexi are pretty sweet....

exbmwdude2006 M35S

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,Vintage JBL's are amazing. Was it the Northridge series that continues to get so much love? JBL Synthesis stuff is absolutely sick as well. Funny you mention tubes, as I am ordering a set of tube monoblock amps tomorrow. It is amazing how glorious tubes sound. Most, if not all, musicians swear by them especially in guitar amps. Something was definately lost as ear buds and hard drives have become the portal to sound for so many. Also, witcha on the Blose as opposed to Harman International thing. I am simply amazed by the LS-600h Levinson system. It even plays SACD's!Cheers,M.L

[M45-Zero260]

Forgive me for sounding....audio-illiterate ....but the Bose in my Audi sounds 5,000 percent better than the Bose in my M. What gives? Hell, my Bose Wave Radio in my garage sounds better than both of them put together.

[b16gsr]

another audio dork has to chime in.Ex-owner ofMcIntosh Solid State AmpKlipsch Hornsand a set of LaScala's

Moved and just did not have the room to set them up.

i keep looking for another set for my office.

Huge fan of the Logans as well. Plus they are built close to home

[audtatious]

Hi guys!!!! X-Adcom guy here.....

Well, kinda. They were in my car

[Mark Linkous]

Hello All,So glad to see others beset by the audiobug. B16, I cannot imagine just how amazing klipsch horns must sound with Macintosh amplification. Given that the horns will play at near concert levels with just a few watts, the impact of a top tier power amp must have been brilliant. Audatious, Adcom in the car is awesome I wish they were still in that sector. M45-Zero260, I agree that the Blose system in the 03-04 M is especially bad sounding compared some of their other "efforts". I just remember when I pulled the Bose out of my previous TL and looked at the speakers. They were paper and not the high quality kind that are seen with some French speakers. I was honestly tortured when I got my M in that I had all of the ingredients to build an amazing system in my car. I just could not bring myself to gutting my car. While the sound quality would have been way better, once a car is modified, there is no going back.Audiodork's Unite!M.L

[GJEMD]

Hello,I believe the last full range Martin Logan panel speaker was the CLS IIz. All since have been hybrid (panel/pistionic driver) In the ESL line, the Summit ($10,000), and the Vantage($5000) both have powered woofers. The Vista in the ESL line has an unpowered woofer. Martin Logan has gone "downmarket" as well with their Design series which is available at many Best Buy's under the Magnolia AV part of the store. While easier to drive than before, the ESL series still dip to around 1.2 ohms in the upper frequencies. Cheers,Audiodork

Sell the wife, not the speakers . I've got a house full of vintage JBLs and luckily the wife is a sucker for some nice loud classic rock. The younger generation (raised on ipods) is stunned when they come over and hear the classics on vinyl through tubes on the big 250Tis. Guess we've got more than a few audio-holics here .

Wish Infiniti had a deal with Harman like Lexus and MB. Those new Mark Levinson systems in the Lexi are pretty sweet....

exbmwdude2006 M35S

Hello,I believe the last full range Martin Logan panel speaker was the CLS IIz. All since have been hybrid (panel/pistionic driver) In the ESL line, the Summit ($10,000), and the Vantage($5000) both have powered woofers. The Vista in the ESL line has an unpowered woofer. Martin Logan has gone "downmarket" as well with their Design series which is available at many Best Buy's under the Magnolia AV part of the store. While easier to drive than before, the ESL series still dip to around 1.2 ohms in the upper frequencies. Cheers,Audiodork

I have a set of Klipsch Cornwalls vintage 1980 in the listening room. I paid $800 for the pair unfinished from the dealer in 1980. Cherry finish. The ultimate crossover unit ever produced. 15 " woofer & two horns for mid and high end.this Model discontinued but rereleased by Klipsch as Cornwall III Current bid on ebay $2380/pair

[Eikon]

So here's a general question about high end audio..

Why is it that with all other types of technology, quality and ability improve and the price comes down over time. With high end audio it seems like the quality is getting worse over time, and the price for the good stuff gets higher and higher??It's just weird.

btw.. i am no audiophile.. but I do have a cool setup in my basement that's waiting to go into my car someday.

I own an ultra-rare set of velodyne car subwoofers. They advertise an active servo controller and some other features I don't understand.. I guess they were only sold for a couple of years and in very low quantity. They were so expensive that nobody would pony up for that kind of technology for their car.

[MaxBolus]

hahaaa, this is great..I've still got a pair of Acoustats in my living room, almost 25 yrs old and still going strong. Luckily my WAF is good- she even put new cloth on them about 6 years ago, and I had to re-do the rubber suspensions on the subs (Model 2MH, couldn't swing the big models back then.)And the Martin Logans... man, even the website gets me going.. Someday, maybe..

Other "No Longer In Business" components: Counterpoint SA-3 tube preamp, Amber Series 70 power amp.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello, That is certainly one of those sad but true deals. While everyone's idea of what high end audio may differ, it seems a great deal was lost by having almost everything built in low wage labor markets. It is exceedingly rare to find anything built America. Krell still produces, designs, and builds here. As does Mark Levinson just to name two. Appropriately, their prices are much higher. During the 70's and early 80's, most most the big Japanese companies still built their gear on the island. Now, only on the upper price spectrum do Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, and the like not build their goods in Malayasia or China. The Japanese manufacturers gear still produced in Japan is quite good. Onkyo's new line of HDMI 1.3 receivers and processors are amazingly built in Japan and are getting rave reviews. Sometimes there is something to be gained by this. Parasound, an American audio company out of San Francisco, designs stateside while having most production in China. They truly build some really nice amplifiers for darn near Best Buy prices. Adcom is much the same. Most people in my age range still have minisystems or Ipod docking systems with craptastic speaker solutions. I am 31 and sadly most of my friends have terrible sounding systems. If at all. Often, just Ipods and those blasted ear enema's. Between MP3's sounding like garbage and CD's being just a little bit better, maybe it is all for the best. SACD and DVD-Audio showed promise but sadly failed to gain traction with a skeptical media and consumers. Much of this has to do with SACD/DVD-A having robust DRM(Digital Rights Management). That being said, when played on high resolution gear, the difference is profound. Many musicians simply abhor CD. Neil Young might be the most famous example. Young and many others, believe Vinyl is much, much better than CD. Moreover, the delay of his long awaited box set had much to do with his support of the now mostly dead DVD-Audio format. In fact, Young released Harvest, On the Beach, and a few others on DVD-A. He was in the process of transferring most of his master tracks over to DVD-A when it faded from the marketplace. There is hope in Dolby Digital True HD and DTS Studio Master in that Bluray and HD-DVD offer much greater storage and much less compression than Dolby Digital or DTS on DVD.God, I am such a dork.M.L

[szh]

Counterpoint SA-3 tube preamp, Amber Series 70 power amp.

Nice!

I was using a dBx 1 amplifier ... can put out tons of power! Unfortunately one of the "channels" is blowing fuses, so I need to get it looked at and fixed - not sure where to go for this, since dBx is no longer in business, AFAIK. Any recommendations in the Bay Area for repair work?

Since this amp can be run in four channel mode (it is essentially four amplifiers in one box), I can use the other two amplifiers built into the chassis (reduced power output). Since I only drive Kef monitors with it now, this is not a problem for the moment.

I am in the process of slowly revamping my audio system, so pieces are being sold to make way for new gear in a few years. My pre-amp was a Yamaha C-80 - I loved its low noise phono pre-amp! Not tube, but among the best non-tube sound you could find fifteen to twenty years ago.

My dream is to get Halcro pre- and power amps ... ! Keeping my fingers crossed about that expenditure - wife has to accept it.

Z