my concept: what do you think? electrically adjustable wing under 100$

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

so i had a small brainstorm today, i was wondering what you guys thought and if you had any opinions or ideas on this. id like to have a wing on my car. not one for show but one with the smallest footprint possible that can provide adequite downforce. the thing also is that i dont want to have a constant drag from running a big wing when the additional downforce isnt really nessesary. i always seen the electrically powered adjustable wings found on porches and thought they were really cool. well i had an idea on how to create my own really cheap tonight. the whole system could probabbly be done under 100$ included in the post i have my concept diagram done very crudely in ms paint. i wasnt out for it to look pretty just enough to get my point across. i hate aluminum wings but it seems to me to probabbly be the only way i could go. the wing i chose to probabbly use was this one:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...18144******THIS IS MY CONCEPT PICTURE******http://www.michaelsphotoshop.com/kurt/c ... ********it isnt 10 feet off the car and 11 feet wide, so it wont provide the average civic with that kind of downforce. however, id imagine it would be sufficient for my needs. this is still a bare concept and i was wondering if you guys had any ideas or thoughts towards it to help push it along. the rod would be in a sleeve with the motor mounted to it and mounted to the trunk more than likely. i dont know exactly how i would be able to do this, or what kind of motor i could use for it. any suggestions? more than likely i would control it by some sort of switch in the cabin, unless some electrical guru on the board could figure a way to tap it into the speed sensor. please no flame posts or why would you need alot of downforce posts. i plan on probabbly taking my car to a nice straightaway on a clear day when the sr is up and running. i do drive fast on a regular basis and would like to have a setup to glue me to the ground. so please, limit posts to creative thoughts...

Post by **AZhitman** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

First thing that comes to my mind is to use 2 power antenna motors and shafts (shortened), wih the front mount pivoting...

No flaming this one, guys - Let's play along.

I like it when people come up with new ideas.

Post by **SeVa-S13** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Interesting idea....

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

i considered that one az, but the problem with using antennae motors is i dont think they would handle the pressure well. i.e. downforce pushing them down from high speeds, that wing will wanna go back down. chances are the power antennae isnt going to handle that well since most use a nylon gear strip to go up and down. as soon as you hit a high speed it would drop back down.

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

i just thought of the idea that instead of using a side mounted motor, i could actually press a threaded rod onto the output shaft, then use an internally threaded rod for the wing adjuster. the only problem i didnt think of originally is spinback. for ex, you crank the wing up to a higher angle and then shut off the motor. after a few minutes of vibration and downforce the wing pushes the bar down and the motor spins freely so it just rethreads back down. i know for a cordless power drill alot of the wont spin the opposite way because of a clutch system. WAIT! what about a handheld 12 v cordless drill? would one of those work? instead of the standard battery pack could i wire in 12v from the car??? also would reversing polarity reverse the motor? i could get a cheap 15$ drill and experiment.... hmmmmm.....

Post by **AZhitman** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Tastyratz wrote:i dont think they would handle the pressure well. i.e. downforce pushing them down from high speeds, the power antennae isnt going to handle that well since most use a nylon gear strip to go up and down. as soon as you hit a high speed it would drop back down.

NOTE: This is not a flame.

The small detail you're missing is, there's VERY little downforce generated by that design, and the cars it's likely to be used on aren't capable of sufficient speed to generate such force. Basic aerodynamic principles.

Actually, some interesting windtunnel testing on some factory-designed "wings" revealed they actually worked in the opposite - Some generated single-digit LIFT (in lbs) at 100 mph.

How about trying power window motors? Cheap, plentiful, strong, and small - mechanism could be VERY easily adapted.

Post by **fuzion** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

AZhitman wrote:Actually, some interesting windtunnel testing on some factory-designed "wings" revealed they actually worked in the opposite - Some generated single-digit LIFT (in lbs) at 100 mph.

The Beetle Turbo S [off topic/maker I know] has a factory spoiler above the glass that deploys around 70 mph.. there is a warning about adding on another an aftermarket spoiler because it will create lift..

Would be weird to see a beetle start doin front flips

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Youll be more affected my drag, than downforce,

Post by **Bubba1** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

I think it's a clever, interesting idea, and it could sell well to the fast n' furious teenager crowd, moreso for the novelty and look, but not for performance improvement. Unless you spend some serious time in a wind tunnel to determine the correct height, shape, and angle for each model car (that would cost a small fortune), the wing'll just create drag. And drag hurts performance. But then again to a teen who wants to slap a big aftermarket wing onto his trunk to make his car look racey, looks seem to be much more important than function. As far as what powers the wing, I think a power window motor would be sufficient, but how well and where the wing locks once it gets into it's desired position is a more difficult design issue than the motor. Remember that wing has to able to withstand potentially more than the average amount of wind, as it will be adjustable to a variety of bad positions. I think it's an idea worth pursuing. Good luck.

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

im starting to think the cordless drill might work the best. i would use one of those ones that are a straight cylinder and a 90 degree attachment, or a 90 degree drill. id try this thing out and if it worked well then i would maybe make a few of them and ebay it. not a big production but maybe something on the side for a few bucks. i never really thought of it but i guess i could do something like this! hmmmmm. maybe its not a bad idea to make a buisness of this... although id like it if it functioned well too! id try it out and see how it feels. i dont have the cash to windtunnel one of those wings but downforce is a raw principle. stick your hand outside the moving vehicle and turn its angle. whether i invest tons of cash into perfecting a wing design or not id imagine wouldnt provide enough gain to be worth it in the end. those are the only adjustable wings that i could use unless someone else has an idea for one...

Post by **AZhitman** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Keep in mind the cordless dril idea will require some other source of power, as it won't work with the 12v supplied by the car.

That's why the window motors are the key.

Post by **Eswift** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

AZhitman wrote:Keep in mind the cordless dril idea will require some other source of power, as it won't work with the 12v supplied by the car.

That's why the window motors are the key.

unless its a 12V drill....

Post by **Rex** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Just a thought, but check the junk yards for an old Corrado and get all the bits and pieces from it's speed activated rear spoiler??

Motors/actuaters have to be strong enough to handle the pressure (if any).

Post by **dr!ft** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Interesting idea...

Plus 1 Inc. of Japan has a similar product called the EV-Wing. http://www.plus1inc.com/aero_p....html Click on the little orange button and you can see a simple flash demo. Only downside is the EV-wing costs about $1,299. Props on trying to find a <$100 option.

Post by **Bubba1** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

That EV-Wing is pretty massive. Ugly too. But if you're going to make a wing adjustable, it'll need to be far stronger than a fixed one. Check out the new Evo wings. They're manually adjustable and massive. I also think it means that you're gonna need something more significant than a cordless drill to operate it. You're also going to have to figure a way to lock it firmly into each position.

I think you're looking at bigger project than $100, even with an existing aftermarket wing that's already adjustable.

Post by **dr!ft** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Bubba1 wrote:That EV-Wing is pretty massive. Ugly too.

My thoughts exactly.

Honestly, I'd rather see a 180sx Type-X rear wing (or some other fiberglass wing) made adjustable. Never liked the aluminum wing style, and figured it would pretty much be the same concept. Although for one-piece wings, the top of the pedestal woud have to be cut and a simple "swing" bracket installed to provide movability.

Just a thought.

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

now that i think of it to tell the truth a power window motor doesnt really seem like a bad idea! i got some pictures of some on ebay and it looks to me that might be the best option. your windows seem to lock very well, and pushing down on a half open window wont make the thing budge. maybe a power window motor is the key. hmmmmmmmmm. power window motor and the piece of aluminum with a keyslot and gear strip... then press an appropriately sized gear on the output shaft of the power window motor........ brainstorming...

Website · Post by **TurboKA37** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

what happens when u try to open the trunk?

Post by **Tastyratz** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

the unit would be directly mounted to the bottom of the trunk, you could open it fine. the wing wouldnt interfere any more than it would without my mechanism.

Post by **Eswift** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

http://www.sciplus.com/singleI...earch

this along with a power inverter and some minor electronic work could set you straight.

you would be best off with a wing that, while not in use, remains quite flush with the body, leaving you with two excellent options:1) an airfoil which is raised in its entirety by 2 actuators2) a hinged airfoil which simply changes the camber of the trailing edge of your car. i believe this is the type that the 993 series porsches with active spoilers used. theoretically only one actuator would be sufficient.

Post by **redrocket** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

hey check out how the 3000gt vr4 does it they have electronic adjustable wings stock and adjustable front spoilers also

Post by **Eswift** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

more actuators

http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/53/0c00cd53.asp

http://www.ultramotion.com/products/bug.php

going with the windowmotor idea, this page shows info about how the system works on VR4s

http://www.vr4stealth.com/spoiler_repair.htm

Website · Post by **TurboKA37** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

Tastyratz wrote:the unit would be directly mounted to the bottom of the trunk, you could open it fine. the wing wouldnt interfere any more than it would without my mechanism.

my bad, i was thinking it would be sitting on the floor of the trunk. well that will be one heavy trunk lid

Post by **Nathan** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:43 pm

What your looking for is called a linear actuator, ESwift posted some

my concept: what do you think? electrically adjustable wing under 100$

my concept: what do you think? electrically adjustable wing under 100$

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