my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
Bigvinnie
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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby Bigvinnie » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:30 pm

slidewayz808 wrote:
well i never tried retarding the ex like u did but i pull nicely everywhere.
Do you have a dyno to prove this like alkemyst did. If so mind sharing that graph with every one? I'm willing to bet my 240/248 set up smokes that 248/232 set up. Also competes just as good if not better than the 248/248.
slidewayz808 wrote: yes 232/232 had great low end but no top end. the 248/248 had nice top end but no low/mid. with i notice with my set up its more in the middle. kind of like the stock 240/248 but pulls more up top after 5500 where the 240/248 would slowly die out.
I'm calling Bull sh&t without dyno proof.the 240/248 is a high end cam with use of the N60 MAF makes peak power at 6500 RPM.The 248/248 will never meet perfect placement 1 degree prior to TDC. With no smog emissions another forum member made a few HP than me at peak 5700RPm with stock MAF.248/232 makes peak power at 5500RPM with stock MAF this is the worst set up that you can use.232/232 makes peak power at 5800 RPM with stock MAF


Modified by Bigvinnie at 7:40 PM 9/9/2009


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alkemyst
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Re: (Bigvinnie)

Postby alkemyst » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:33 pm

also my -2.5 and +2.5 only applied to the intake cam (the 248) and not my 232 stock exhaust cam.


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Re: (alkemyst)

Postby Hype » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:32 pm

- or more appropriately, dyno graphs!! Butt dyno is too speculative, especially if its been awhile since you did this or rode with a stock ka

I would be down to throw in some money to someone's paypal acct if they wanted to get some of these cam setups tested. If anyone is local, i'm down to help and I've even got a bunch of 240/248 cams and gears we could drill.. I should also have some s14 232/232 but I need to confirm this. I'd use one of my cars but my hatch AND vert both need KA rebuilds.....

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Re: (Hype)

Postby motoman399 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:00 pm

paypal is [email protected]

feel free to put as much pesos as you want in there

slidewayz808
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Postby slidewayz808 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:52 am

i can drive a stockish 240 anytime. 5 of us have 240s with different cam set-ups. s14 with 240/248, 2 s13 with 240/248, s13 with 248/248, and mine with 248/232.

slidewayz808
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Postby slidewayz808 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:53 am

also i kno this isnt my dyno but just found this. full bolt-on, no tune, stock maf.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~rockstars14/dy ... .jpg"</img>

Bigvinnie
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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby Bigvinnie » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:00 pm

slidewayz808 wrote:i can drive a stockish 240 anytime. 5 of us have 240s with different cam set-ups. s14 with 240/248, 2 s13 with 240/248, s13 with 248/248, and mine with 248/232.
All we want to see is your dyno. I've already seen 2 dyno's with 248/232 and they don't make anything close to what you mention.

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby slidewayz808 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 pm

slidewayz808 wrote:im even with my friends bmw e36 325i!!
ok edit my friends has a e36 328i rated at 190hp and 200tq. i know about some dynos that dont have huge hp, but from wat i gathered is that i like my set up lol im not trying to own anyone on this tread just putting in my thoughts and 2cents. i really need to go to a dyno some day

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Postby TooMuckinFuch » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:17 pm

Sorry for diggin up the dead, butttt..... I'm putting a new head on my S13 in about 10 hours and I'm trying to learn how to do the 240/240 cam setup. How far do you have to retard/advance the cam gears and what else is needed? Please help asap if you have any information!

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Re: my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Postby fame_s13 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:56 pm

hey buys wondering about the 248/232 cam swap and was wondering why is their a wierd idle with this setup
for example:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDUizSZlAg[/youtube]

any way to fix this problem?
thanks

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SX APPEAL
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Re: my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Postby SX APPEAL » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:40 am

Just came back to this thread again for the 100th time lol. Been reading it for years. Just a quick note, I've got a few cams for sale in the classifieds section if anyone's interested in doing some experimenting. 248, 232, and 240 cams here

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-RJ-
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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby -RJ- » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:19 pm

Im bringing this back hoping someone can give me some insight on this or maybe Vinnie can give some insight
Bigvinnie wrote: 248/232 makes peak power at 5500RPM with stock MAF this is the worst set up that you can use.232/232 makes peak power at 5800 RPM with stock MAF

What if your running a KA with a N60 MAF. I've been wanting to do this for a while so I did some research on it but nobody says anything with the maf I have

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jbracy7
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Re: my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Postby jbracy7 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:02 am

The n60 does not make any power by it self ,it just opens up room for bigger and better options

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby Bigvinnie » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:52 pm

-RJ- wrote:Im bringing this back hoping someone can give me some insight on this or maybe Vinnie can give some insight
Bigvinnie wrote: 248/232 makes peak power at 5500RPM with stock MAF this is the worst set up that you can use.232/232 makes peak power at 5800 RPM with stock MAF

What if your running a KA with a N60 MAF. I've been wanting to do this for a while so I did some research on it but nobody says anything with the maf I have
Well back from the dead.

The N60 MAF installed on 91~94 (240/248) OBD 1 engines with stock cams and and SAFC or some sort of piggy back will yield easily 10WHP without any other modification (this is ultimately the best tested set up) out of all the cam selections.
Reason is that the incoming velocity slows down the cooling process the hot wire to the MAF. Intake atmospheric oxygen by volume is greater (hence larger diameter MAF), as the MAF which is larger becomes what is velocity stacking. You can learn about this with fluid dynamic principles.
If you left all the settings at 0 on the SAFC it will lean out the engine closer to stoichiomeric at idle which is actually what you want, however higher in the rpm range without tuning it will loose power from being to leaned out, and to lean also will have the knock sensor detect knock and retard timing hindering some HP.
Since the MAF is larger you cant just tune to 0% across the RPM range. After 2800~3000 RPM the tune needs increased enrichment by 10% (to be safe) up to 7000RPM that is if the engine is bone stock, with just N60 and SAFC.

This set up requires minimum octane of 89octane, you can not use 87octane. If you want you can add more enrichment than 10% across the RPM range however then the engine guzzles more 87octane and then its more cost effective to just have it tuned out for 89octane.

Larger MAF also advances ignition timing, hence why the fuel has to be upgraded from 87 to 89 octane (minimum). ECU is fooled assuming less air, as the velocity at point of MAF is not travelling faster and denser than the velocity that travels through the intake system. Smaller MAFS are designed for emissions and richness, since the hot wire cools fast using a smaller diameter MAF the pulse width injection increases, since there is more pulse width its easier for the engine to run on 87 octane with protection of the knock sensor.

I don't agree using an exhaust 248 on intake side as the degree of angle VS timing actually has the cam react less than the 240 intake cam when in natural OEM timing placement.

brendon17370
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Re: my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Postby brendon17370 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:37 pm

I have a set of s13 and s14 cams their 240/248 and 232/232 how can I tell the difference the numbers on the cams are 1 2 and 3 3 how do I know which are which

NEOeclipse
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Re: my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Postby NEOeclipse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:43 pm

ok so i decided it was my turn to jump in on this convo even tho its been going on for many years. i did the 248/248 cam swap on my s13. i personally love it, i love the top end power difference. I did the 4 teeth CCW on the intake side. i even took some pics of my motor at TDC after the swap to show how it should look. i have all new timing chains and so forth so i figured id do the swap at the time.

Image

Image

Image

hopefully these images help others cause i wouldve loved to found the pics when i did mine to help me figure out the issues i had at first. my car idles at 750rpms give or take like +/- 20 rpms


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