my comments on 248/240 s13 cam swap

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
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gingerbredman
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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (nekoabandoned)

Postby gingerbredman » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:09 pm

I believe 240/248 is stock.. unless they're just swapped around.. but damn, I've got no response to my question about running 248/248 setup at either 2.5 or 5 degrees advanced with a turbo setup.. I think I'll just stick with my.. unorthodox setup lol

My powerband and turbo both should be in full at the same time, 3500rpm, so that's what I'm getting it tuned for, I'm hoping it will scrape up some more power with my soon-to-be low-boost setup. We'll see I reckon.


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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (gingerbredman)

Postby alkemyst » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:20 am

since you are turboed...it's going to be hard to say what will be better for your application.

However; most of your power is going to come from just the boost itself and fine tuning the cams very little. It's pretty hard to go wrong

Until you go aftermarket cams you aren't going to get that much gain over any stock setup...it's been shown on the dyno to be only about 5RWHP at peak in the best cases. However, butt dyno 'feel' is pretty different to some people.

In the end they would be passing the 1/4 mile about identically though.

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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (alkemyst)

Postby nekoabandoned » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:54 pm

has anyone herd of cases where after they did the cam swap there would be a loud ticking sound coming from the head?

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Postby sticky_steve » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:03 am

A friend of mine had some really loud ticking sounds from under his head and when we did a cam swap, we found out that the shim under one of the lobes was broken and the shim bucket was cracked in half. So we went to the junk yard and swipped a couple of shim buckets and shims. Now the problem is gone! Hope this helps

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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (nekoabandoned)

Postby alkemyst » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:53 am

nekoabandoned wrote:has anyone herd of cases where after they did the cam swap there would be a loud ticking sound coming from the head?
There is a procedure to check clearances. Some ticking is normal for the first few seconds, but after that if you are hearing it that is not right.

More than likely you have too much clearance on one or more lobes and that sound is the shim releasing and recontacting.

Also on a used cam, you should check for wear. I had this problem and although the car sounded fine, I was getting too little vacuum as well as losing a ton of power (on a good engine with intake/exhaust/cat/header I dynoed at only about 110RWHP, 120RWHP if I increased timing 8 degrees)

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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (alkemyst)

Postby svfd5140 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:38 am

I just did a stock rebuild and used the 232/240 set up its awsome around 3500rpm which is where the power band seems to be. put the in straight up with no offset. my try + - degree next. wish i had a six speed manual tranny.

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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (svfd5140)

Postby gingerbredman » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:52 pm

That's how my setup is performing, close to 3500rpm it'll just take off. Butt-dyno feels good for sure, but also since I only have a short ram intake as an upgrade and kick Honda/Acura a** all day long lol.. I say it's better than stock, I get better gas mileage too, I guess since while I'm cruising around I'm out of the powerband but i dunno I'm planning on going ka-t with this setup on low (7psi) boost for now and seeing what happens with it.


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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (gingerbredman)

Postby svfd5140 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:49 am

does yours have a little rough idle or is it somthing on mine. i didnt think 232/240 would idle rough but mine sure dose

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Re: KA24DE cam swaps (svfd5140)

Postby gingerbredman » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:34 pm

My idle's a little rough.. something strange happened tonight though, don't know if it's cam-related but I'm gonna make another post for it..

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Postby struckinc » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:45 am

i was on driftkat trying different cam setups and from the looks of it running a 248 s13 exhaust with 2.5deg retard and a s14 232 exhaust will put everything very clsoe to factory specs as far as lobe separation, intake opening and overlap..anyone noticed this?

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Postby DALAZ_68 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:44 pm

248/232 this is hand-down where its at. If you have some s13 cams and some s14 cams you should have already done this. the power production is great everywhere. you only lose a little bit of top end over 248/248 and you gain more low end than you get with any other swap besides maybe 232/232. the KA craves this swap, it loves the low end and, chances are you only rev to 6500 anyway, so thats why this is the cam sawp for you. only don't do this if you wanna get beat by me. i'm only kidding, i'm too poor to be fast.
my question for this set up, and any cam setup that deals with this thread is wether there any fuel management neccessary, besides changing the timing on the dizzy?

i currently have a spare s14 motor getting ready to refresh the seals and change the timing chain and its going into my DD AT coupe...

so i have a clean working s14 and s13 motor pretty much

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Postby spooled240 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:47 am

i'm looking to upgrade my cams to stock s13 cams (240/248) but i'm wondering if the s13 cams will work in my 97 ka. I thought i read somewhere that the 97-98 ka's are slightly different than the s13 ka's.

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Re: (spooled240)

Postby gingerbredman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:54 pm

A weird thing happened the other day. My buddy did the 248/248 cam swap and rotated the teeth ccw 4(wouldn't run for spit), then 3, then 2teeth ccw, was better, but regardless...it didn't LOPE..???

wtf.. mine loped like crazy when I did it, I mean the whole car shook


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Re: (spooled240)

Postby WI_S14_Goldie » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:58 am

spooled240 wrote:i'm looking to upgrade my cams to stock s13 cams (240/248) but i'm wondering if the s13 cams will work in my 97 ka. I thought i read somewhere that the 97-98 ka's are slightly different than the s13 ka's.
Yes they are....95+ Ka's have 232's for both i/e while s13 cams are 240/248 i/e. I've done this swap on my previous zenki...i felt a slight lost on the low end put it "picks" up on top a bit better. If u can find some cheap S13 cams i'd say go ahead and jump on it...anything for more "power".

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Re: (gingerbredman)

Postby spank044 » Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:38 pm

My 248 cams don't lope and have good throttle response, but another local 240sx with 248 lopes and dies at corners. I have adjustable cam gears and used the 5 degree hole and it runs great.

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Re: (spooled240)

Postby motoman399 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:59 am

spooled240 wrote:i'm looking to upgrade my cams to stock s13 cams (240/248) but i'm wondering if the s13 cams will work in my 97 ka. I thought i read somewhere that the 97-98 ka's are slightly different than the s13 ka's.
hey spooled i did this in my 98 with the s13(240/248) worked perfect with no problems. i dont remember the power gains cause it was a long time ago but it did help. do it and note how it worked for your kat im curious.

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Postby spooled240 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:12 am

that's good to hear, my ka-t with the 240/248 cams would be just like a s13 kade-t but I'm curious to see how the dual exhaust cams will do with the ka-t (248/248) with a slight advance in the exhaust cam

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Re: (spooled240)

Postby motoman399 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:23 am

im just curious if you will notice a power increase or faster spool. i think i read way back in this thread that the 248/232 was going to be the best for turbo. i dont know too much about cams so i am just saying what i heard here. but i have done the swap to s13 cams

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Postby slidewayz808 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:07 am

ive been running the 248/232 for almost a year now and i like it. i tried the 248/248 but didnt like how the tq just peaks. with the 248/232 set up tq is much flatter. it has a broader powerband i should say. im even with my friends bmw e36 325i!!

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby Bigvinnie » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:43 am

slidewayz808 wrote:ive been running the 248/232 for almost a year now and i like it. i tried the 248/248 but didnt like how the tq just peaks. with the 248/232 set up tq is much flatter. it has a broader powerband i should say. im even with my friends bmw e36 325i!!
Thats funny a guy over in zilvia claimed it was the biggest dog sh&T set up over the 240/248.

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Postby spooled240 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:57 am

I have a s14 with a stock ka24de(not turbo anymore :cry ) and i want to upgrade my cams to either the stock s13 240/248 or maybe the 248/248's. I just want MAX power/torque at around redline and i don't really care about a smooth power band, etc...so I'm guessing dual 248's would do the trick with a little adjustment in the cam gears?

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Re: (Bigvinnie)

Postby slidewayz808 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:02 pm

Bigvinnie wrote:
Thats funny a guy over in zilvia claimed it was the biggest dog sh&T set up over the 240/248.
well i have adj. cam gears with it also. never had a problem so far. my timing is around 25 degrees too so i think that helps alot with the midrange tq i get.

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Re: (spooled240)

Postby slidewayz808 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:05 pm

spooled240 wrote:I have a s14 with a stock ka24de(not turbo anymore :cry ) and i want to upgrade my cams to either the stock s13 240/248 or maybe the 248/248's. I just want MAX power/torque at around redline and i don't really care about a smooth power band, etc...so I'm guessing dual 248's would do the trick with a little adjustment in the cam gears?
yup the 248/248 will get u more peak hp/tq. i did that on my friends s13 248(+2.5 advance cam timing)/248. it pulls nicely but i still pull away from him. it could be that i have headers and a straight pipe and he has stock.

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Re: (spank044)

Postby gingerbredman » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:32 pm

The WEIRD thing about my setup was that I didn't rotate the cam 4 teeth ccw like everyone said. I simply pulled the int. cam out and dropped the exh. cam exactly like the old one was. It ran fine for over a year, idled (loped) perfect, never died, power was bland all the way around though, but it loped like...nothing I'd expected, I can't believe I didn't video of it.

Since this Ka-T deal's not looking good for me, I think I'm gonna do the same thing and get an exhaust and just roll with it.

So basically anyone who's done the 248/248 setup and has it loping has done it WRONG!! LOL I know for sure what happens at 4 teeth off!

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Re: (gingerbredman)

Postby alkemyst » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:16 pm

All I know is I did the JWT's did +2.5 and -2.5 and my car lost power with 248/232 in my 98.

I was at 108RWP stock timing with H/I/E...bumping timing netted me 120RWP on a mustang dyno. I should have been making 140-150 at the min.

I swapped back and my gas mileage and performance increased (still not enough to make me happy)...I went from about 175miles on a tank to 250.

I have come to the conclusion that it's better than stock but for a big grin it's going to take boost or a swap.

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Postby spooled240 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:38 pm

i was boosted for 2 and half years at around 250-270 rwhp daily and that was fun. I just recently got a ref ticket for my setup which has forced me to go back to the ka24de. I was tempted to go back turbo but with all the hood popping going on over here in socal, it's really not worth it IMO. But it's true, you need boost or a swap if you want straight-line performance in a 240. It's gonna take a ton of money and work to get a n/a ka to pump out 250 rwhp.

The stock ka is slow as hell and peaks around 5500 rpms...as of now I just want to have a n/a ka that is fun to drive. I don't need a ton of hp but I just want a fun power band that will peak at 6500 rpms.

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Re: (alkemyst)

Postby Bigvinnie » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:39 pm

The way I broke it down is that the exhaust cam has to be greater than or equal to the intake cam. The exhaust cam can be no less than the intake cam or else power will drop.For one the exhaust valves are already smaller than intake valves.So at overlap intake velocity wont increase, and will probably decrease the effect swirl.

Thats why on most cams that BC, JWT or PDM will sell all sell cam selections that are greater than or equal to the intake cam.

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Re: (spooled240)

Postby slidewayz808 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:41 am

spooled240 wrote:The stock ka is slow as hell and peaks around 5500 rpms...as of now I just want to have a n/a ka that is fun to drive. I don't need a ton of hp but I just want a fun power band that will peak at 6500 rpms.
with my set up248(+2.5)/232 i have power from like 3500-6/6500ish. i shift at 6500 anyways. for me its a nice set-up for drifting. nice flat tq curve with decent power up top, where im at most of the time anyways. i keep up with basic swap sr on the track so im happy.

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Re: (alkemyst)

Postby slidewayz808 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:47 am

alkemyst wrote:All I know is I did the JWT's did +2.5 and -2.5 and my car lost power with 248/232 in my 98.
well i never tried retarding the ex like u did but i pull nicely everywhere. i came from a stock s14 set up 232/232 (had a 95 ka in my 93 s13) to a 248(+2.5)/232 to 248(+2.5)/248 and also drove a 240/248. yes 232/232 had great low end but no top end. the 248/248 had nice top end but no low/mid. with i notice with my set up its more in the middle. kind of like the stock 240/248 but pulls more up top after 5500 where the 240/248 would slowly die out.

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby gingerbredman » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:00 pm

hmm.. I have no clue what's up with mine, it's been so long since I've driven/rode with a completely untouched motor that I can't recall what it's like. My power band is very bland until 3500rpm and goes to about 6k or so I guess, I just don't run her that high. It's nice though, I suppose :S oh and any guys local-ish that want an exhaust cam or two (248) I've got a couple


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