Muffler Shop Pipes vs. Aftermarket

[nthiogen]

I personally can't find any justification for buying a whole entire turbo-back system for $800+ when a local muffler shop could bend me the necessary tubes for half of the price at most.

I can understand buying the actual muffler tip for the distinctive sound, but is there really any benefit from buying a whole system? When it comes down to it, they're just big metal tubes...

Oh, and Happy Holidays!

[jdm_dean]

only benefit is that most aftermarket exhaust are stainless steel so they dont rust and they're mandrel bent. but alot of shops now do mandrel bending still for far cheaper than buying an exhaust. i've never bought an exhaust from a company and never will.

[Wc240]

if you go to a quality shop, they'll do quality work. ask to see some of there work. my shop does mandrel bending and stainless. thats why i go to a shop. but along time ago i went to a shop with my ef and the exhoust turned out like s***. crush bends, bad quality pipes, and they welded it quite possibly the worst quality ive ever seen

[r3v_v3ng3]

most muffler shops dont have mandrel bending machine only the higher end ones. the 800+ turbo backs are probably lighter, better material and mandrel bends. the local muffler shops carries aluminized steel. your best bet is to check out your exhaust system and look at the bends and order some mandrel bend piping and have the exhaust shop install it.

[r3v_v3ng3]

keep in mind to let them know you want flanges where the stock one were cause can guarantee you those bastards would weld you a piece exhaust system

[wrightme43]

I work for a national muffler franchise. We use a HUTH bender, aluminised tubing, and will weld flanges as needed. Our best exhuast guy has been there since 1977. We consistently reccomenend that customers who want high performance exhuast purchase them online in stainless. We dont have a mandrel bender, its very hard to be cost effective on one off mandrel bent pipe. I would highly reccomend that you purchase your system and install it. You will end up much happier with the result. I try to explain to people its not that I dont want your business, its that I feel like you would be wasting your money and not have what you really want. That said people still put very expensive custom muscle cars on trailers and drag them from nashville just to have Steve R. work custom build exhausts. We just dont do it for the cars that have stainless mandrel bent systems available unless they insist. I hope that helps you.

[nthiogen]

Hmm, lots of conflicting replies and good insight altogether thus far.

I guess I might just buy a used set of pipes

That said, has anyone bought anything from ISIS? Their parts are dirt cheap but I'd love to believe that they're worth it (even though common sense tells me otherwise)

[KATwo40]

I bought a used catback. Seems like it was an HKS. Had a couple dents and dings...but I spent only $100. Loved it!

[liquid_cool]

Hmm, lots of conflicting replies and good insight altogether thus far.

I guess I might just buy a used set of pipes

That said, has anyone bought anything from ISIS? Their parts are dirt cheap but I'd love to believe that they're worth it (even though common sense tells me otherwise)

keep in mind..when you buy a pre-fabed pipe..it will be placed OEM style..ie OEm locations for mounting...you will have to have it fitted or wrestle with it your self..as everycar is like a person's internals..different but still the same...so mounting will allways be something you have to do...allso..if ya go with a reputible shop..they can custom bend and place pipe where you want it....like (JGTC) style...side dump..verry leet!...or duel at each side...or split with a crossover...lots of fun stuff to choose from...if i were you..id go to some local car meets and ask around..then go to a few shops they sugested and actually look at there quality..then make up your mind from there...good thing about a local shop is..if there is a fitment issue or a repair needed down the road..they are local...over the net thou..your screwed..and would have to buy a new one alltogether.

good luck..what ever you decide.

[Sushibandito]

I am assuming you aren't buying it for the 2003 I35 in your profile as you mentioned "turbo-back", I doubt you will be able to find used pipes, let alone a company that makes an exhaust system for that car. I think the I35's look pretty hot, and super cheap for the build quality, but I have never seen on tuned up, rare to even see them with custom wheels.

I see high end exhaust systems going for 1/3 the original price on CL in Seattle all the time, at least a new one every month. For Los Angeles you should have a much easier time finding a stainless steel Blitz/Greddy etc for $200 to $300. I paid $30 for my no name catback system off Craigslist, and found a local shop to install it for $50 (1/2 hour labor). Beware as muffler shops treat most people like idiots, and I heard quotes from $50 to $200 for installation, including one shop that said they would have to re-weld all the exhaust hangers, even after me telling them the exhaust was off the same freaking car.

If you are going for stainless, probably not worth factoring rust into the buying decision as you live in an area that (as far as I know) doesn't have issues with cars rusting, hence all those early 60's Mustangs being sold as "California Cars".

And the airflow loss from, say 3" mandrel bent vs 3" shop bent pipe comes down to the little ridges the shop bends leave behind, air doesn't flow as well if the sides aren't smooth, but if you only stand to gain 5-10hp anyway regardless, you aren't gonna miss much going the cheaper route.

But I say buy used all the way, there is too much supply to waste money on brand new pipes

[nthiogen]

Well, yeah, it's not for the I35. I've been trying to sell/trade it for a 240sx, but I've been quite unsuccessful. Maybe it's a sign :P

I'm a little unclear on this statement though:

And the airflow loss from, say 3" mandrel bent vs 3" shop bent pipe comes down to the little ridges the shop bends leave behind, air doesn't flow as well if the sides aren't smooth, but if you only stand to gain 5-10hp anyway regardless, you aren't gonna miss much going the cheaper route.

Were you saying that those ridges can account for a 5-10hp loss in potential gains or that an exhaust system only nets you about that much, and that those ridges aren't going to rob alot of hp?

[Sushibandito]

My comment on the 2nd read through didn't make any sense, so my apologies

The widely spread theory is that upgrading the exhaust on any 240sx is going to be a gain of 5-10hp, maybe as high as 15hp, but lets use 10hp as the average for simplicity.

Its probably not noteworthy but I think the math is for every 1hp gained its the equivalent of losing 10lbs of weight off the car. At least it helps in realizing the actual effect it will have on the performance.

So stainless could give you 10hp, the shop bent tubing might be 7hp or 8hp. From what I have read (and anyone is free to correct me) the ridges left behind from "crush-bending" don't have a huge impact on airflow, and the idea is mostly used by companies that manufacture stainless mandrel bent tubing to sell a more expensive product.

Since you are in California i I read a lot of comments from people who get tickets for having a custom exhaust, so you probably want to get one with a removable silencer, but silencers have the same effect as trying to breath with your head in a plastic bag.

[nthiogen]

I see. So the differences aren't too pronounced. At least, not enough to justify the huge difference in price.

[Sushibandito]

I think the average is for every $100 bucks you spend you should get 1hp in improvement, but most of us aren't concerned with bleeding every inch of possible power out of our engines if it means paying $800 instead of $400.

It will sound cool, which was the main reason for me, so there is a definite placebo effect in making the car "feel faster". As far as the sound created, mine will set off car alarms when I drive by, so watch some youtube videos as a lot of people post the brand and pipe diameter of their system, although I have yet to hear any 240's I would describe as "ricey".

[nthiogen]

Hehe, thanks for all the input man! Always good to know these things

[Sushibandito]

Sad that one of the few places I feel well-read is on the Nissan forums, I should probably expand my knowledge base beyond cars, quality tequila, and being someone people come to for basic medical advice