MS covering E74 failures as part of RROD

[C-Kwik]

"While the majority of Xbox 360 owners continue to have a great experience with their console, we are aware that a very small percentage of our customers have reported receiving an error that displays “E74” on their screen. After investigating the issue, we have determined that the E74 error message can indicate the general hardware failure that is associated with three flashing red lights error on the console. As a result, we have decided to cover repairs related to the E74 error message under our three-year warranty program for certain general hardware failures that was announced in July 2007. We have already made improvements to the console that will reduce the likelihood of an occurrence of this issue. Detailed information related to the Xbox 360 warranty and resources for those who require repair can be found at http://www.xbox.com/support (www.xbox.com/support) .

Microsoft will refund to customers the amount paid for an out of warranty repair due to a general hardware failure associated with the e74 error message. Those customers should automatically receive the refund within 4-12 weeks, and no additional action by customers should be necessary. However, if a customer has not received a refund by July 1, 2009, the customer should visit http://www.xbox.com/support before November 1, 2009 for information on how to place a claim. All refund claims must be received on or before November 1, 2009.’For more information about troubleshooting the E74 error message, click the following article number to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:"

http://support.xbox.com/suppor...dware

http://majornelson.com/archive....aspx

[MinisterofDOOM]

Sweet! It's very nice to see MS stepping up to the plate again.

[Otto.]

Its nice to see a company actually covering their products.

[bmike818]

kudos to MS

[Chaotic_Warlord]

So is it true that the new devices in stores now with the new power supply no longer suffer from the RROD? Either way the RROD should never have been a problem to begin with let alone a problem that's plagued practically every owner of a 360 (in most cases more than 2 or 3 times) for several years. I'm on my 3rd 360 and am hoping that it doesn't die.

[MinisterofDOOM]

From what I understand, the issue is not entirely MS's fault. That is to say, they are limited by ridiculous legislation in their construction materials and methods so they have to work with what they're able to. My understanding is that RROD issues are at least partly related to the low melting point of the lead-free solder they are required to use for safety/environmental purposes. If they'd been able to use real leaded solder the melting temp might have been high enough to withstand the temps the system subjects it to. So they've been working on bringing operating temps down to the threshold of the crappy solder. They shouldn't have to do that; they should be able to work with the materials they need. Damned hippies. They should be the ones paying for the warranty costs and MS's class-action lawsuit costs.

[snwbrdr435]

any one else on their first 360?

[MinisterofDOOM]

I'm not, but it's not due to RROD. I lost my first one to a DVD drive failure. My second one hasn't let me down yet.

[C-Kwik]

From what I understand, the issue is not entirely MS's fault. That is to say, they are limited by ridiculous legislation in their construction materials and methods so they have to work with what they're able to. My understanding is that RROD issues are at least partly related to the low melting point of the lead-free solder they are required to use for safety/environmental purposes. If they'd been able to use real leaded solder the melting temp might have been high enough to withstand the temps the system subjects it to. So they've been working on bringing operating temps down to the threshold of the crappy solder. They shouldn't have to do that; they should be able to work with the materials they need. Damned hippies. They should be the ones paying for the warranty costs and MS's class-action lawsuit costs.

While lead-free solder does present some design challenges, proper engineering would make that a non-issue. MS decided to try and take on the ASIC design themselves to save some development costs, but that turned out to be a pretty big mishap.

http://www.megagames.com/news/...shtml

[Chaotic_Warlord]

My gf read an article a couple months back that said that MS has like 50K dead xbox 360's stockpiled in a bone yard on texas. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but I do know that MS really effed up the whole deal, but nearly as bad as Playstation did with the PS 3 and it's massive overheating issue.

[EazyBreazy]

My understanding is that RROD issues are at least partly related to the low melting point of the lead-free solder they are required to use for safety/environmental purposes. If they'd been able to use real leaded solder the melting temp might have been high enough to withstand the temps the system subjects it to. So they've been working on bringing operating temps down to the threshold of the crappy solder.

To give a little perspective to my post, I spent 5 years in the Marine Corps as a specialist in circuit board repair and component replacement. So when I say there is absolutely no reason for a device to be designed in such a way that it could melt the solder joints from its own heat, I have some frame of reference. We ran our stations at 650 just to be able to heat the contact, component lead and solder well enough to induce flow. Below 500 our solder would never melt period. This is the tin/lead combination. I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but my guess would be more along the lines of faulty components, ie. barely in spec as opposed to exactly correct. or something along those lines. Also cooling, as with the very tiny descrete components you find on most computer circuitry, they're very suceptable to heat damage, especially if that heat is very high for long periods of time.

from wiki

Tin/lead solders, also called soft solders, are commercially available with tin concentrations between 5% and 70% by weight. The greater the tin concentration, the greater the solder’s tensile and shear strengths. At the retail level, the two most common alloys are 60/40 Sn/Pb which melts at 370 °F or 188 °C and 63/37 Sn/Pb used principally in electrical work. The 63/37 ratio is notable in that it is a eutectic mixture, which means:

1. It has the lowest melting point (183 °C or 361.4 °F) of all the tin/lead alloys; and 2. The melting point is truly a point — not a range

As a matter of fact, only three of the 15 lead free solder formula's listed have a melting point lower than that of the standard tin/lead formula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

[madpappi]

new years eve i got the e74 error called MS and come to find out that my console was 4 days out of warranty!!!! but the guy on the phone told me to hold on came back and said dude no problem we will fix it for you. anyways he set up the return they fixed so in the system it appears like i paid to have it fixed and they shipped me another unit with a full brand new warranty. so it seems they already knew about the problem. but stepping up to the plate like that was awesome most companies would have told me to bad.... like Nintendo did when product from them broke 5 days out of warranty. hats off to ms .

[MinisterofDOOM]

That's awesome. Probably helped that you got a helpful CR on the phone. I've heard some nightmare stories about MS's support line customer reps. The difference that one person can make in so many peoples' views of the company is huge...and exactly why MS needs to make sure they're hiring more people like the guy you talked to.

[s13jus10]

..nearly as bad as Playstation did with the PS 3 and it's massive overheating issue.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, I did a double-take on that one as well. First I've heard of it.

[sil80_chris]

any one else on their first 360?

i was on my first one until a couple weeks ago...lol... ...i'm now waiting to get mine back from MS...

[RCA]

but I do know that MS really effed up the whole deal, but nearly as bad as Playstation did with the PS 3 and it's massive overheating issue.

IDK how bad Playstation 3s are with over heating but mine did.Once I sent it in, the one I have has been through hell and back and not a hitch.

I am on my 3rd Xbox Once the second one broke MS said they could do nothing for me and I resorted to fixing them myself.