Mounting intercooler, trying to keep bumper

[SX APPEAL]

Every time I see pics of someone's car with a front mount, they've always ditched the front bumper. Is that just what everybody does? I'm planning on doing some track days with my car once its finished and I'd really prefer to keep the bumper when facing the possibility of spinning into a wall at 140mph. Any suggestions?

[biggie]

Most anyone keeps the bumper, but most ditch the bumper support. All is based on size/shape of the FMIC and how much trimming you can do.

[SX APPEAL]

OK just for reference, when I say bumper, I'm talking about the big curved hunk of metal that keeps you from dying in a firey crash (LOL) and gets in the way of the intercooler. I refer to the shiny painted thing on the outside as the bumper cover. If you're calling the big metal thing the bumper support, and saying that everyone just gets rid of it, then I understand and that pretty much answers my question. Now I need to figure out how to mount a decently sized core in there with the bumper in place, cause for what I'm doing, I sure as s**t want to keep it right where it is.

[nismoracingsx]

+1 on proper terminology bumper is the metal bumper cover is the shiny plastic ^_^
As for retaining your bumper. If you end up cutting it, you could always have someone fab up a steel tube frame bumper that goes around your intercooler..can't see who for sure, but someone on here has it in their build thread. Factory bumper cover fit over it and everything

GL

[biggie]

Most refer to bumper as the bumper cover, but the metal is the bumper support as I mentioned. Take off your bumper, take measurements of what size IC will fit wit minimal trimming. I fit mine in with just trimming 1-2" off of the back of the support.

[ghx407]

I use an Ebay/Godspeed intercooler kit. I was able to mount the intercooler and keep my bumper bar intact by trimming where the red lines are in the pic below.



(Picture taken by superman29)

[Razi]

Exactly what I did.
But I didn't have to trim a whole ton.

I might cut my intercooler actually, it's way too big for the driving I do.

[WDRacing]

When I think bumper I think metal big metal bumper in the front and rear of the car. The cover that goes over the bumper is the bumper cover. I like calling things what they are, rather then making up a name for something...lol.

In the FSM they are called the bumper fascia, or cover for short. Then there's the energy absorber which is the foam insert and the metal part is actually called the reinforcement assembly.

I kept mine. Losing the bumper isn't to bright IMHO.

[SX APPEAL]

Yeah I'm not much of a fan of losing it either, or even trimming it really, as taking too much material off in the wrong place could compromise its structural rigidity, and I'm not smart enough to do the calculations to find out which parts would and wouldn't be safe to lose lol. Looking into cores that will fit around it, something like a shorter, wider core that fits under the bumper or maybe a tall skinny core that I can mid mount right in front of the radiator. Might get some added cooling benefit from the electric fan too with that set up.

[WDRacing]

I'll go measure mine, it's fits great and I didn't have to trim anything on my S14. No bumper cover trim either, just to specify.

*EDIT*

Ok it's 28"/7" and 4 wide. The 28" includes the end tank in/out pipes. This size will support 350ish in AZ...atleast until you spin a bearing and toss a rod through the block. But one had nothing to do with the other.

[Ilvemynissan]

Ok, i was going to mention the mid mound setup. That's what im doing. I bought a EVO VIII core and i just have to cut the stock outlets off and re-weld them on so they're facing toward the motor and the piping should only be a little over a foot long on each side. The core fits almost perfect under the core support.

[biggie]

The only place I had to trim (but this is S13 Silvia bumper support):

[SX APPEAL]

Did some measuring last weekend. Looks like I'll be able to fit the intercooler I've been looking at (29"x8"x3.5") almost directly under the bumper. Which brings me to another question. this is the intercooler I'm planning to run:



Does anyone have any experience with using this design of core, with the inlet and outlet on the same side? Is efficiency or pressure loss affected at all? My idea is to use this core design with a stock type intake pipe running above the radiator as the coldpipe, instead of having it come up through the battery tray like most do. The idea is to get a long section of straight charge piping in which to mount the MAFS, to help it read as accurately as possible, and just because I think it looks cool and no one else that I know of has done it Most tuners recommend that the MAFS have 9" of straight piping on either side, which should be possible with this arrangement. Any flaws in my plan?

[neverlift]

the maf only REALLY needs 8~9" on the pre measurement side. After its metered who gives a f*** if it gets turbulant, the ecu?

that would almost negate the entire purpose of a FMIC.... running the cooled air over the hot a** radiator, after 15 minutes the pipe would become heatsoaked and an air heater, sure its better than nothing.... Dont re invent the wheel.

[C-Kwik]

Did some measuring last weekend. Looks like I'll be able to fit the intercooler I've been looking at (29"x8"x3.5") almost directly under the bumper. Which brings me to another question. this is the intercooler I'm planning to run:



Does anyone have any experience with using this design of core, with the inlet and outlet on the same side? Is efficiency or pressure loss affected at all? My idea is to use this core design with a stock type intake pipe running above the radiator as the coldpipe, instead of having it come up through the battery tray like most do. The idea is to get a long section of straight charge piping in which to mount the MAFS, to help it read as accurately as possible, and just because I think it looks cool and no one else that I know of has done it Most tuners recommend that the MAFS have 9" of straight piping on either side, which should be possible with this arrangement. Any flaws in my plan?

Having the inlet and outlet on the same side of the I/C is going to have the same practical effect as running an intercooler that is 58" x 4" x 3.5". Basically, you effectively half the cross sectional flow area. Maximizing the cross sectional flow area is a big factor in reducing the pressure drop across the core. And a higher pressure drop means that for a given level of pressure measured at the intake manifold, the turbo will need to see higher boost than if the pressure drop was lower. Higher boost pressure at the turbo means more exhaust energy is being used which means higher exhaust manifold pressure which means more backpressure on the motor. The most ideal configuration (in terms of thermodynamics and energy) would be an intercooler of similar dimensions whose channels run vertically with the end tanks on top and bottom as this maximizes the cross sectional area for airflow through the core. But that's not always easy to fit in the front bumpers of many cars. And in the 240, the bottom end tank would place the core up higher, reducing its exposure to fresh air.

This size will support 350ish in AZ...atleast until you spin a bearing and toss a rod through the block.

One might argue your I/C is now oversized for your application.

[WDRacing]

No Chano...just you buddy.

And to sum up all that other stuff you posted...that type of intercooler is inferior in every way to one that doesn't have the air do a 180 and then run through 3-4 feet of additional intercooler piping.

[SX APPEAL]

Good info guys, thanks. Guess I can see now that going to all that trouble to set up the MAF as best as possible would be cutting off my nose to spite my face so to speak lol.

EDIT: Now a couple more questions. How is flow/cooling effected by the thickness of the core itself? Keeping all other variables the same, inlet/outlet size, core height and length, one core is 2.5" and another is 4", how will flow, pressure loss and cooling efficiency be affected? Is bigger always better?

One last thing, most intercoolers you see for auto applications are bar and plate designs, but I've found a few online of a "delta-fin" design (looks just like a radiator or A/C condenser) which claim to be lighter and more efficient? Hogwash or trustworthy info?

as always, thanks for the help

[C-Kwik]

EDIT: Now a couple more questions. How is flow/cooling effected by the thickness of the core itself? Keeping all other variables the same, inlet/outlet size, core height and length, one core is 2.5" and another is 4", how will flow, pressure loss and cooling efficiency be affected? Is bigger always better?

Generally speaking, the more surface area, the more it can cool the air. More surface area tends to mean a bigger intercooler. Bigger intercoolers have more internal volume, so the turbo will need to pump more air before it reaches the desired pressure. However, for all practical purposes, this aspect is negligible considering the biggest intercooler you can stuff into the front of about any car is likely not going to add enough volume to be concerned.

From an overall design perspective, getting the most exposure of cool air to the charge air is the name of the game. As I said, above, surface area is the primary factor. But thicker cores will see progressively hotter air as the ambient air pushes through the core. So too thick will stop netting significant gains...but as with the volume issue, its hardly an issue as 5 inch thick cores are unlikely to fit any modern car. Frontal area is always nice as that will maximize the amount of cool air that will pass through the face of the intercooler. The limitations are space in the front end, and as is the case with the 240SX, the bumper (metal) tends to cover part of the intercooler face (most typical intercooler sizes).

One last thing, most intercoolers you see for auto applications are bar and plate designs, but I've found a few online of a "delta-fin" design (looks just like a radiator or A/C condenser) which claim to be lighter and more efficient? Hogwash or trustworthy info?

Bar and Plate are pretty efficient. They have dense fine packing so they have a lot of surface area to help transfer heat quickly. Their downsides are weight (there is an upside to this though which I'll explain in a bit) and airflow. The airflow is affected in 2 ways. First, the dense fin packing tends to impede flow. Secondly, the square shape of the tubes tends to decrease ambient airflow compared to the more oval shape of a typical tube and fin design. Now going back to the weight issue, the bar and plate's additional mass does provide some additional heat sinking properties. Intercoolers aren't typically able to transfer the heat as quickly as it comes in. Instead, the mass in the intercooler will absorb some of the heat and shed it over time. The cooling will occur as long as there is ambient air flowing through the core. When off-boost, the air inside the intake plumbing will not longer be pressurized so it will be fairly cool and actually help to cool the I/C from the inside as well (though, typically in small amounts since airflow tends to be low when off boost on a race track). More mass means it can absorb more heat while raising its temperature less than a lighter cooler. This is important because in order for heat transfer to occur, there must be a temperature differential. And the greater the differential, the faster the heat transfer. If the I/C core temp gets close to or equal to the temperature of the charge air, then it will no longer effectively transfer heat (heat soak). So a heavier I/C will be able to handle temperature spikes better and operate more consistently.

Tube and fin does have its advantages though. It's lighter and can flow more air through the core (typically) which equates to a lower pressure drop across the core (turbo works less and generates less heat as the compressor outlet pressure will be lower). The most ideal way to choose an I/C is to look at all the factors. How much room do you have? How much of an intercooler will be exposed to ambient air through the front of the car? How efficient are the cores? What boost pressures and airflow rates will my system be running? Once you have answers to the major questions, you have to pick, the one that generates the best results over a broad range while avoiding any major problems. But outside of trying to extract every bit of HP for competitive purposes or for extremely powerful set-ups that might be at the bleeding edge of available space in the front of the car, any reasonably sized core that is designed to meet your airflow needs will probably be fine regardless of type. Especially in a street car. Choosing an intercooler can be made into a very complicated process, but outside of engineering for mass production or competition, there is no need to overthink it.