I have a couple questions about past and present motors. First, why is the inline 6 (or inline anything) not being used anymore? If you look at the toyota supra (90s) nissan skyline (90s-02) or 240SX, they all have inline engines and tremendous power potential. The new GTR is a V6, as is the 350z, and i'm sure the next Supra will have changed as well. And yes im aware that the 300ZX has a V6 in it, but that was clearly a mistake as many 300ZX owners (me being one) will agree. Trying to work on one is almost impossible.
Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A? The 90's horsepower wars were an exciting time for nissan, mazda, toyota, and maybe mitsubishi. All turbocharged, all performance, right off the line. I was too young to drive back then, but now i am fascinated by these machines. All seemingly ahead of their time, and then gone in just a few years. The world just wasn't ready for these monsterous cars and was sadly more interested in hauling the kids around in big ugly SUVs.
The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60. The 350Z is alright but when it came out, the first thing i noticed was that it had less HP than the 300ZX, and carried a naturally aspirated engine that nissan puts in every other car and SUV they make. Thankfully, the new GT-R has it's own unique engine that's turbocharged! I was almost certain they would skimp out on the goodies, but they came through enough. Is turbocharging factory vehicles gone the way of the dinosaurs?
motors:90's to present
Re: motors:90's to present (dopamine)
Hey man don’t take this the wrong way.
dopamine wrote"First, why is the inline 6 (or inline anything) not being used anymore? If you look at the toyota supra (90s) nissan skyline (90s-02) or 240SX, they all have inline engines and tremendous power potential."
They still are being used. All BMW 6's are inline.The main problem with inline six is they are much longer than a v6.A modern V6 is as smooth today as an inline six.
As far as inline anything, well if it is a 4cyl and made reciently, it is probably an inline 4 (except Subaru). I know some are going to disagree with me, but the fact that the above mentioned engines have "tremendous power potential" is not all do to the fact that they are of an inline or straight design.
"Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A?"
They aren't.
Look at BMWThe new 335I = Straight six twin turbo.One of my customers has a Porsche 997S, 2000 M5, and a new 335I with the Dinan chip upgrade. He thinks the 335i after the dinan computer is the fastest car in his garage!
MINIWent from Supercharged to Turbo
Pontiac/SaturnSolstice and Sky
Look at Subaru. The Forester XT 2.5L Turbo one very fast SUV/Car thing.Legacy Turbo 2.5 Turbo Family/Sports car Of course the STI/WRX
Porsche Still make the Turbos
I think the list can go on.These are the ones that just poped in my head.
“The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60.”
I agree with you there if you are referring to the 3rd gen rx7. (The 3rd gen also needs an engine replacement every 60k to 90k miles!!!!) The first and second gens, well they were what the rx8 is now.
“The 350Z is alright but when it came out, the first thing i noticed was that it had less HP than the 300ZX, and carried a naturally aspirated engine that nissan puts in every other car and SUV they make.”
300ZX Twin Turbo. Close to 50,000 bucks in its final years!!! 350Z ½ the price. Drive the two you will be impressed with the 350z or you just don’t like driving. I owned a 300zxTT myself when the 350z came out, I wanted, and still want a 350z.
300zxTT Engines internals – stout --, everything else on the engine, paid for my first house. 350Z engine Well true the VQ is used in Vans, SUVs and cars. This is a great engine why not?This also helps keep costs down.And what is wrong with a mini van having a 350z engine. Or is it the 350z has a minivan engine???? Check out Wards 10 best engines. This engine is a repeat winner. Chevy used their engines in corvettes and vans? So what….
Thankfully, the new GT-R has it's own unique engine that's turbocharged! I was almost certain they would skimp out on the goodies, but they came through enough. “Is turbocharging factory vehicles gone the way of the dinosaurs?”
Again No see above
Joe
Modified by bimrtech at 10:22 AM 4/30/2008
Modified by bimrtech at 10:25 AM 4/30/2008
dopamine wrote"First, why is the inline 6 (or inline anything) not being used anymore? If you look at the toyota supra (90s) nissan skyline (90s-02) or 240SX, they all have inline engines and tremendous power potential."
They still are being used. All BMW 6's are inline.The main problem with inline six is they are much longer than a v6.A modern V6 is as smooth today as an inline six.
As far as inline anything, well if it is a 4cyl and made reciently, it is probably an inline 4 (except Subaru). I know some are going to disagree with me, but the fact that the above mentioned engines have "tremendous power potential" is not all do to the fact that they are of an inline or straight design.
"Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A?"
They aren't.
Look at BMWThe new 335I = Straight six twin turbo.One of my customers has a Porsche 997S, 2000 M5, and a new 335I with the Dinan chip upgrade. He thinks the 335i after the dinan computer is the fastest car in his garage!
MINIWent from Supercharged to Turbo
Pontiac/SaturnSolstice and Sky
Look at Subaru. The Forester XT 2.5L Turbo one very fast SUV/Car thing.Legacy Turbo 2.5 Turbo Family/Sports car Of course the STI/WRX
Porsche Still make the Turbos
I think the list can go on.These are the ones that just poped in my head.
“The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60.”
I agree with you there if you are referring to the 3rd gen rx7. (The 3rd gen also needs an engine replacement every 60k to 90k miles!!!!) The first and second gens, well they were what the rx8 is now.
“The 350Z is alright but when it came out, the first thing i noticed was that it had less HP than the 300ZX, and carried a naturally aspirated engine that nissan puts in every other car and SUV they make.”
300ZX Twin Turbo. Close to 50,000 bucks in its final years!!! 350Z ½ the price. Drive the two you will be impressed with the 350z or you just don’t like driving. I owned a 300zxTT myself when the 350z came out, I wanted, and still want a 350z.
300zxTT Engines internals – stout --, everything else on the engine, paid for my first house. 350Z engine Well true the VQ is used in Vans, SUVs and cars. This is a great engine why not?This also helps keep costs down.And what is wrong with a mini van having a 350z engine. Or is it the 350z has a minivan engine???? Check out Wards 10 best engines. This engine is a repeat winner. Chevy used their engines in corvettes and vans? So what….
Thankfully, the new GT-R has it's own unique engine that's turbocharged! I was almost certain they would skimp out on the goodies, but they came through enough. “Is turbocharging factory vehicles gone the way of the dinosaurs?”
Again No see above
Joe
Modified by bimrtech at 10:22 AM 4/30/2008
Modified by bimrtech at 10:25 AM 4/30/2008
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mtcookson
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Re: motors:90's to present (dopamine)
I'm probably going to end up repeating a lot of what Joe said as he covered it pretty well but here's my view.
One reason a lot of people liked the I6's was that they are a naturally balanced engine making them very, very smooth (low to no vibrations). The V6's these days though are also quite smooth with very minimal vibrations.
Joe mentioned BMW doing inline 6's... another interesting one to note is Hyundai... they actually did a front wheel drive inline 6 in one of their cars.
Generally the inline engines are easier to work on... but personally, I wouldn't give up handling for slightly more accessibility. Actually, the big reason why the Z32 300ZX is hard to work on is those heads... those suckers are just massive. The SOHC VG is definitely much easier to work on. One small reason why I'm using the SOHC VG in my Z32 instead of the DOHC VG.
Quote »Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A? The 90's horsepower wars were an exciting time for nissan, mazda, toyota, and maybe mitsubishi. All turbocharged, all performance, right off the line. I was too young to drive back then, but now i am fascinated by these machines. All seemingly ahead of their time, and then gone in just a few years. The world just wasn't ready for these monsterous cars and was sadly more interested in hauling the kids around in big ugly SUVs. [/quote]As Joe said, there are still quite a few turbocharged cars out there. I think emissions might have had something to do with it... though they claim turbo engines are a bit easier to do emissions wise so I'm not sure. These days though, with fuel going like it is high compression NA cars will tend to get better fuel economy which may be a bigger selling point to some. Regardless... the VQ35 is an awesome engine. It now currently holds the record for fastest Nissan in the 1/4 mile in a built drag car. Nissan should also be coming out with the 370Z soon which will be rated as having more power output than the 300ZX was rated it. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Z32.
Quote »The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60.[/quote]That's actually how the rotary engine works... they build torque as they rev. I'd be interested to see how the RX-7 compares to an NA RX-7, that would definitely be a much better comparison. If they came out with a turbo version it would probably do pretty good compared to the RX-7. I've driven an RX-7 and it was a bit disappointing as far as acceleration but they sure to handle quite well.
As Joe touched on it, the problem with inline 6's are that they are both tall and long... for a sports car this isn't really good when it comes to the corners. Being tall raises the car's center of gravity and being long pushes the weight distribution forward. With a compact V6, both of these are eliminated making potential handling much, much better. This is one of the biggest reasons the JGTC R34 GT-R with the turbo VQ30 was faster than the RB26 equipped JGTC R34 GT-R.dopamine wrote:I have a couple questions about past and present motors. First, why is the inline 6 (or inline anything) not being used anymore? If you look at the toyota supra (90s) nissan skyline (90s-02) or 240SX, they all have inline engines and tremendous power potential. The new GTR is a V6, as is the 350z, and i'm sure the next Supra will have changed as well. And yes im aware that the 300ZX has a V6 in it, but that was clearly a mistake as many 300ZX owners (me being one) will agree. Trying to work on one is almost impossible.
One reason a lot of people liked the I6's was that they are a naturally balanced engine making them very, very smooth (low to no vibrations). The V6's these days though are also quite smooth with very minimal vibrations.
Joe mentioned BMW doing inline 6's... another interesting one to note is Hyundai... they actually did a front wheel drive inline 6 in one of their cars.
Generally the inline engines are easier to work on... but personally, I wouldn't give up handling for slightly more accessibility. Actually, the big reason why the Z32 300ZX is hard to work on is those heads... those suckers are just massive. The SOHC VG is definitely much easier to work on. One small reason why I'm using the SOHC VG in my Z32 instead of the DOHC VG.
Quote »Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A? The 90's horsepower wars were an exciting time for nissan, mazda, toyota, and maybe mitsubishi. All turbocharged, all performance, right off the line. I was too young to drive back then, but now i am fascinated by these machines. All seemingly ahead of their time, and then gone in just a few years. The world just wasn't ready for these monsterous cars and was sadly more interested in hauling the kids around in big ugly SUVs. [/quote]As Joe said, there are still quite a few turbocharged cars out there. I think emissions might have had something to do with it... though they claim turbo engines are a bit easier to do emissions wise so I'm not sure. These days though, with fuel going like it is high compression NA cars will tend to get better fuel economy which may be a bigger selling point to some. Regardless... the VQ35 is an awesome engine. It now currently holds the record for fastest Nissan in the 1/4 mile in a built drag car. Nissan should also be coming out with the 370Z soon which will be rated as having more power output than the 300ZX was rated it. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Z32.
Quote »The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60.[/quote]That's actually how the rotary engine works... they build torque as they rev. I'd be interested to see how the RX-7 compares to an NA RX-7, that would definitely be a much better comparison. If they came out with a turbo version it would probably do pretty good compared to the RX-7. I've driven an RX-7 and it was a bit disappointing as far as acceleration but they sure to handle quite well.
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JDMZ32
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- Contact:
Re: motors:90's to present (mtcookson)
(OPPOSITE of this is what i'm trying to say). good points and good debate. but i noticed all the second guy's examples are European cars. i think the first guy was thinking more about the Japanese.
Re: motors:90's to present (bimrtech)
Thanks Joe, you made alot of good points.
bimrtech wrote:Hey man don’t take this the wrong way.
dopamine wrote"First, why is the inline 6 (or inline anything) not being used anymore? If you look at the toyota supra (90s) nissan skyline (90s-02) or 240SX, they all have inline engines and tremendous power potential."
They still are being used. All BMW 6's are inline.The main problem with inline six is they are much longer than a v6.A modern V6 is as smooth today as an inline six.
As far as inline anything, well if it is a 4cyl and made reciently, it is probably an inline 4 (except Subaru). I know some are going to disagree with me, but the fact that the above mentioned engines have "tremendous power potential" is not all do to the fact that they are of an inline or straight design.
"Second, Why have all the new sports cars gone N/A?"
They aren't.
Look at BMWThe new 335I = Straight six twin turbo.One of my customers has a Porsche 997S, 2000 M5, and a new 335I with the Dinan chip upgrade. He thinks the 335i after the dinan computer is the fastest car in his garage!
MINIWent from Supercharged to Turbo
Pontiac/SaturnSolstice and Sky
Look at Subaru. The Forester XT 2.5L Turbo one very fast SUV/Car thing.Legacy Turbo 2.5 Turbo Family/Sports car Of course the STI/WRX
Porsche Still make the Turbos
I think the list can go on.These are the ones that just poped in my head.
“The RX-8 is a terrible follow up to the RX-7. No low end torque, and horrible times at the 1/4 mile and 0-60.”
I agree with you there if you are referring to the 3rd gen rx7. (The 3rd gen also needs an engine replacement every 60k to 90k miles!!!!) The first and second gens, well they were what the rx8 is now.
“The 350Z is alright but when it came out, the first thing i noticed was that it had less HP than the 300ZX, and carried a naturally aspirated engine that nissan puts in every other car and SUV they make.”
300ZX Twin Turbo. Close to 50,000 bucks in its final years!!! 350Z ½ the price. Drive the two you will be impressed with the 350z or you just don’t like driving. I owned a 300zxTT myself when the 350z came out, I wanted, and still want a 350z.
300zxTT Engines internals – stout --, everything else on the engine, paid for my first house. 350Z engine Well true the VQ is used in Vans, SUVs and cars. This is a great engine why not?This also helps keep costs down.And what is wrong with a mini van having a 350z engine. Or is it the 350z has a minivan engine???? Check out Wards 10 best engines. This engine is a repeat winner. Chevy used their engines in corvettes and vans? So what….
Thankfully, the new GT-R has it's own unique engine that's turbocharged! I was almost certain they would skimp out on the goodies, but they came through enough. “Is turbocharging factory vehicles gone the way of the dinosaurs?”
Again No see above
Joe
Modified by bimrtech at 10:22 AM 4/30/2008
Modified by bimrtech at 10:25 AM 4/30/2008