I am a very logical person and I look at all of the facts. My field of study does not allow me to be bias.
Why do the experts always pick Indi or Dallas or San Diago or Philly to win it? WTF is it? WTF am I missing? I would imagine it is because they have the same god damn team that did great the year before.
The schedule? Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this how schduling is done...You play all the teams in your division twice and you play all the teams in a divsion from the other league once and another division in your own league and then there are a few random games. So according to that the Packers, Bears, and Lions have almost the same schedule. Correct? Also I would consider the Vikings one of the best teams in football. The reason for this is because they made it to the NFC Champtionship game which makes them one of the 4 best teams in football correct? So why would the Vikings be worried about playing WHOEVER is on their schedule?
What did you unbias research and the experts see that I didn't OTHER THAN the schedule?
They "question" Favres health. They say "IF" he is healthy. Being the Iron Man of football why would you question this? Is there a logical explination to question if he will be healthy? It doesn't matter if you are 20 or 40 if someone one puts a helmet in your knee it is a bad day. How many QBs and players in general have been knocked out with injuries? Did Romo get hurt because hes old? Or did he get hurt because he plays a brutal game?
When they made these predictions Sidney Rice was not supposed to miss any games and neither was Griffin. So who are these "playmakers" you are talking about? Yes I questioned how well they would do when Sidney ended up hurt but then again I THOUGHT Favre had the ability to throw the ball to someone other than Sidney Rice.
I don't think Moss is a "model" player but he is a HoF WR that still has skills. There is no logical reason to think this stuff with Randy Moss would happen in 3 weeks.

If you are so unbias and smart tell me exactly why I shouldn't have expected the VIkings to make a superbowl run? Tell me exactly why the experts were so correct. Lets hear your unbias research.

The Packers were picked over the Vikings. The Vikings beat the Packers twice last year. What exactly is the reason the Packers are picked over the Vikings...Here are the schedules. In bold are the teams that are different.


9/09 Minnesota Vikings @ New Orleans Saints
9/19 Miami Dolphins @ Minnesota Vikings
9/26 Detroit Lions @ Minnesota Vikings
Vikings Bye Week
10/11 Minnesota Vikings @ New York Jets
10/17 Dallas Cowboys @ Minnesota Vikings
10/24 Minnesota Vikings @ Green Bay Packers
10/31 Minnesota Vikings @ New England Patriots
11/7 Arizona Cardinals @ Minnesota Vikings
11/14 Minnesota Vikings @ Chicago Bears
11/21 Green Bay Packers @ Minnesota Vikings
11/28 Minnesota Vikings@ Washington Redskins
12/05 Buffalo Bills @ Minnesota Vikings
12/12 New York Giants @ Minnesota Vikings
12/20 Chicago Bears @ Minnesota Vikings
12.26 Minnesota Vikings @ Philadelphia Eagles
1/2/2011 Minnesota Vikings @ Detroit Lions

Sun., Sept. 12 @ Philadelphia Eagles 3:15 p.m. FOX
Sun., Sept. 19 Buffalo Bills 12:00 p.m. CBS
Mon., Sept. 27 @ Chicago Bears 7:30 p.m. ESPN
Sun., Oct. 3 Detroit Lions (Gold Pkg.) 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Oct. 10 @ Washington Redskins 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Oct. 17 Miami Dolphins 12:00 p.m. CBS
Sun., Oct. 24 Minnesota Vikings 7:20 p.m. NBC
Sun., Oct. 31 @ New York Jets 12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Nov. 7 Dallas Cowboys (Gold Pkg.) 7:20 p.m. NBC
Sun., Nov. 14 Open Date
Sun., Nov. 21 @ Minnesota Vikings *12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Nov. 28 @ Atlanta Falcons *12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Dec. 5 San Francisco 49ers *12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Dec. 12 @ Detroit Lions *12:00 p.m. FOX
Sun., Dec. 19 @ New England Patriots *7:20 p.m. NBC
Sun., Dec. 26 New York Giants *3:15 p.m. FOX
Sun., Jan. 2 Chicago Bears *12:00 p.m. FOX

So the differences are
Vikings-
Saints
Cardnials
Packers-
Falcons
49ers
Saints and Falcons were both very good teams last year and the Cards and the 9ers were iffy. Personally I think the 9ers are a tougher team.
But apparently the Vikings have a tougher schedule and the Packers are favored to win the division? Why exactly? Let me guess...Vikings got lucky...twice...last year?
Remember when predictions were made Rice and Griffin were good to go.

This is getting boring. You should reread your posts, you are only logical part of the time. You essentially blew off the fact that some of your key playmakers were injured during training camp. Does the name Brett Favre ring a bell? Favre blew off training camp and was COMPLAINING UPFRONT about his ankles being bad BEFORE the season started. Hello McFly? injured 41 yr old starting QB, no minicamps, no preseason, uh, they are not going 16-0.

About the schedule. the NFL actually does plan their schedules. they don't pick games randomly as you think The non-conference games are a combination of rotating divisional play with each team in the division with the balance decided based on how your team fared the previous year. The Vikes did well last season, which is why they ended up with tougher non conference opponents instead of, say, the Cleveland Browns. The experts also noticed that your division plays the NFC east this year, which is among the tougher, more bruising divisions. The Vikes clearly have a tougher schedule this year, yet you dismiss it. That's your folly.(edit I see in your last post you finally acknowledge the tougher schedule but evidently still deny it has any impact)

I'm amazed you're still arguing about Moss. His fate was predictible given his track record. You noted he's HOF caliber whose advice matters. That's not the issue. It's HOW, I repeat, HOW he's criticizing that's the point . He's free to criticize his coaching staff, but NOT IN PUBLIC. In a pro team sport you DO NOT criticize the team or staff PUBLICLY which is exactly what Moss (and TO) have done several times. They both got dumped by most of the teams they played for because of it.Why on earth do you think Minnesota is any different? You asked why Moss lasted in Oakland 2 years? The Raiders wanted to dump him after the first year but he was "injured" much of the time. (Some claim he was unhappy and was not as injured as he claimed) His resulting stats were poor, and given the size of his contract, no other team really wanted him. Belichick eventually got him cheap, and he played well for a while, but his big mouth eventually started flapping when he got unhappy about something. He got released as soon as he went public. You even acknowledged that Belichick runs a tight ship. Well?????
It only took Moss a week in Minnesota to start criticizing in public. Geez Moss was even quoted praising the Pats coaches, when just 3 weeks earlier he was bashing that same staff in public. I wouldn't want an cancerous idiot like that on my team regardless of his talent. Evidently NFL coaches feel the same way.

About Romo vs Favre. Romo is in his prime. He played through off season mini camps and preseason this year, and has been with his team several years. Favre is well past his prime, blew off training camp, and admitted to bad ankles before the season even started. Sure the guy has swagger and a big heart, but the warning signs were there that he was not the same QB as last year. You chose to ignore it and assumed he was the exactly the same. Based on the season thus far, it seems you assumed wrong. Get over it.

Next, why do experts seem to pick teams like the Colts and Chargers every year? Easy. They're consistently good, both have healthy, great QB's in their prime, and they win their divisions often, so the odds of their making the playoffs is good every year. The Eagles get picked more than my Giants because they've been winning the NFC east more often. I'm no Eagle fan but I recognize they have a lot of rising stars, and a good coaching staff.
Ultimately I could care less about my team being a preseason favorite. I'm more interested in them winning the actual games. I still fail to understand why you place such importance on preseason forecasts. Perhaps you can explain.

Why are the Vikings not picked it to win it all this year? Okay lets see. Yes, they did have a good year last season with a good track record, but under a coach you yourself claims sucks and harms the team.(uh, ok). But let's add in whats new this year, including the big problems you have at QB discussed above that you won't admit to, two backup QB's with very limited playing time, other starter injuries, the tougher schedule that you won't acknowledge impacts things, the fact that the rest of your division has improved, including the guys that play on the frozen tundra. Add it all up and it's rather obvious the Vikes faced tougher season this year than last year. Oh and just because you beat a divisional rival twice in one season does mean an automatic division championship. You need to take off your purple colored glasses, buddy. You are biased when it comes to the Vikings.

I honestly don't care about the Vikings or Brett Favre, (well, except on 12/12, when the Giants play them, then I want to see the Vikes lose) I also don't read the daily local chatter about the Vikes, which makes me more unbiased than you are about them. But based on your responses, it might be time for me to begin rooting against them every week....

I see the Titans just picked up Moss. We'll soon see if he's learned anything by being dumped by 2 teams in one month.

I don't picture Jeff Fisher tolerating Moss' BS very long, especially after the Titans best receiver Britt comes back in 6 weeks.

First off I have the right to be upset if my team is not doing well so I a going to b**** a little. You think I don't understand things but that isn't the case.
You need to remind me that Favre was hurt going into the season. He missed training camp and preseason. Do you remember what the start of last season was like? If I recall correctly he missed training camp (but I'm not sure about pre season games.) And didn't he just have elbow/bicep surgery? Is this a dream I'm having or are you forgetting the last season started almost the exact same way. Remember how Favre was too old last year? All I'm saying is I wouldn't bet against the Iron Man of football. He has never missed a game so why would I expect him to this year? Because he's old? Well he was old last year and he was old the year before. But hey he isn't preforming well this year and I don't know why. If it is because he's old? Fine. If you make the claim every year that the guy is too old you will eventaully be right even if you did say it for 5 or 10 years. Eventually you will be right.

I don't deny their schedule is tough and I didn't expect them to go 16-0 but I did think 12-4 or 11-5 was doable. My problem is the experts all picked Green Bay and even Chicago to do better than the Vikings and I don't know why. I don't deny that Green Bay is a good team but do they not have almost the same schedule as the Vikings? Ok so maybe the last 2 games aren't picked randomly BUT the other 14 games are still the same. Same thing with the Bears. 2 games are different. What exactly did Chicago do to make them jump the Vikings and the Packers?
I don't agree with everything Randy says and matter of fact I think it's kind of f*** up what he said to that food vendor. Whether he did say some stuff out loud, like not kicking the field goal, that he shouldn't have he is still right and at least it makes an interesting interview. If you have listened to any of the interviews by Vikings players you can tell they are disapointed and confused. Chilly still has not given them a reason why he waived Moss. But the players are doing exactly what they are supposed to and says "Well that's part of our business" and "I'm sure he's just doing what's best for the team" or something along those lines. What's the point of even interviewing someone? Oh yea that's right because if the players don't take interviews they get fined by the NFL.

Favre Vs Romo. I know Romo is in his prime but I just like poking fun at him because the Cowboys are supposed to be so amazing every year and aren't. The only think about Romo is he did get hurt which means players do not have to be 41 to get hurt.
If you actually read my posts I said a number of times that I was wrong about how well Favre would play this year. If you need me to I can quote those parts in my posts. But in my defense there is no reason I should have thought anything else. If you read my first paragraph I made that point. Yes you were right this year and I was wrong. But last year I was right and almost everyone else was wrong. And let me guess...you didn't think he was too old last year did you? But I will say it again. I wanted Favre back and he isn't playing well so I will bite the bullet for that. I also said, and I will say it again, when someone isn't playing well it is the coaches job to bench them and give the backup a shot. You think I am way out of line but I think you are only reading what you want to read.

It was funny last night...I was talking to my mom on the phone and she mentioned how Favre and Childress don't get along and I cracked up. That is just my point...people that don't even like football but live in MN know about Childress. That's just because it's on the news all the time here. I don't expect you to know that if you don't hear the local news but when someone that does hear the local news claims something you need to think maybe they know more about their community than you do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are the Titans and their fans not THRILLED about Moss? You know the way I was? Their coach is happy, their fans are happy and Chris Johnson is thrilled. Not only that but Vikings players and fans and heartbroken over Moss leaving. So is it fair to say the Titans are total idiots? Is Jeff Fisher a total idiot? are Titan fans total idiots? They are watching the same news you are and they are obviously aware of the fact that Moss just got cut for running his mouth. I guess when the Titans cut him you will need to tear the Titan fans a new ***hole like you are doing to me because apparently they don't get it either.

And on a final note you know what the big news today is? Childress was almost fired when he waived Moss without asking. Management wanted to FIRE Chilly for that stunt.
This would lead me to believe 1 of 2 things...
1. Childress sucks...
2. Vikings management sucks and Childress is right and management doesn't know how to run a football team.
I claimed both of these things in a previous post. What is your opinion on them almost firing Childress?

Oh and saying you are right because you are unbias is horse s***. Yes being a Vikings fan does make me bias towards them but it does not make me incorrect. If you get a doctors opinion about an illness do you dismiss it because you are less bias? Of course not. You believe it because he spent 8 years of his life learning about that field. Did you ever consider that maybe I look at my team unbiasly or actually read stuff about them? Bias or not I probably know more about my team than you do just like you know more about your team than I do.

Actually here is a more real life example. I get this one at least once a week. I am a religious studys major and I study the Bible. That's what I do, that's what I study. But at least once a week I have some idiot arguing with me about what the Bible says. They say I am bias because I'm not Christian and I guess apparently they are some kind of expert in Christianity because they have gone to church a few times. No, I am not Christian but when facts come to facts I know what the Bible says.

vikesfankevin1986 wrote:Oh and saying you are right because you are unbias is horse s***. Yes being a Vikings fan does make me bias towards them but it does not make me incorrect. If you get a doctors opinion about an illness do you dismiss it because you are less bias? Of course not. You believe it because he spent 8 years of his life learning about that field. Did you ever consider that maybe I look at my team unbiasly or actually read stuff about them? Bias or not I probably know more about my team than you do just like you know more about your team than I do.

Actually here is a more real life example. I get this one at least once a week. I am a religious studys major and I study the Bible. That's what I do, that's what I study. But at least once a week I have some idiot arguing with me about what the Bible says. They say I am bias because I'm not Christian and I guess apparently they are some kind of expert in Christianity because they have gone to church a few times. No, I am not Christian but when facts come to facts I know what the Bible says.

Ok 3 posts ago you say you're unbiased. I disagreed. Then in the post above you finally admit you're biased when it comes to the Vikes. But later you say just because you're a religious studies major and that you study the bible, that makes you unbiased? Uh, ok.

By the way, if I get a doctor's opinion I disagree with, unlike you, I will not simply accept it, I will get a second opinion.

vikesfankevin1986 wrote: What is your opinion on them almost firing Childress?

I agree Chilly should have consulted management before releasing Moss. But I also believe Moss should not have been picked up by the Vikes in the first place. I also believe Childress was right on for dumping Moss quickly when Moss began his BS. All the Vikes lost was a 3rd round draft pick. The Titans picked up his salary, so the mistake's cost was small. And since Chilly recently signed a 5 yr contract extension, it would surprise me to see him get fired.

For your peace of mind, I will no longer question anything you say about your Vikings, no matter how silly or biased I think it may be. Enjoy your studies.

Bubba1 wrote: Ok 3 posts ago you say you're unbiased. I disagreed. Then in the post above you finally admit you're biased when it comes to the Vikes. But later you say just because you're a religious studies major and that you study the bible, that makes you unbiased? Uh, ok.

By the way, if I get a doctor's opinion I disagree with, unlike you, I will not simply accept it, I will get a second opinion.

I agree Chilly should have consulted management before releasing Moss. But I also believe Moss should not have been picked up by the Vikes in the first place. I also believe Childress was right on for dumping Moss quickly when Moss began his BS. All the Vikes lost was a 3rd round draft pick. The Titans picked up his salary, so the mistake's cost was small. And since Chilly recently signed a 5 yr contract extension, it would surprise me to see him get fired.

For your peace of mind, I will no longer question anything you say about your Vikings, no matter how silly or biased I think it may be. Enjoy your studies.[/quote]

No one is ever going to be totally unbias. It doesn't happen. Even scientist come to different conclusions because they are bias. That's why "experts" don't always agree when they are presented with the same information. The most important thing is to try and look at the fact objectively. To say I am 100% unbias would be incorrect but as it would be for you to say the same thing about your team. The argument you are making is like the argument in my phil class that talks about patriotism. They argue that patriotism is loving your country no matter what. No matter what they do you country is always right. This is the claim you make. You believe that I think I am the know all end all of the Vikings. That is not the case. You do not take into consideration that I MIGHT know a single thing about my team.
You said you would get a second opinion, unlike me? Well I have been watching Sportscenter, PTI, Around the Horn and I have been reading on ESPN.com. Whether or not you call those "creditable" sources they do qualify as "second opinions." I am going to guess you have not been watching or reading this stuff because if you had you would see that not everyone agrees with out. I would say a little more than half agree with me about Moss not being the main problem and Childress being the problem. I am not the only person in the country that holds this view. Yes my opinion has changed slightly after watching this stuff because more stuff comes out about Moss. I had not heard every detail about it because it did not all come out at the same time. I agree not everything he did was right but I still don't agree with waiving a player that quickly. And either way...Childress got Moss and released Moss.
Do I think it would make sense to fire a coach you just gave an extension to? No, I don't but personally I never thought he should have got that in the first place. Either way it was reported on ESPN that the Vikings almost fired Childress and a number of people have said this is Chilly's last year. I am not making this up. I am not ESPN source on the Vikings.

And that's real f*** cute to question my study of the Bible. I was raised Christian and now I am not. My wife has been on mission trips and my friend is a hardcore Catholic. I have seen and read the Christian sources. I know what they believe and I know what the Bible says. What I do is an academic study of the Bible and literally analyze Biblical texts.
I study the Bible inductively and not deductively. I compare the Bible with other ancient texts from the ancient near east and look at archeology. We look at artifacts found in the ANE. We also study the languages it was written in. How can one claim to know what the Bible says if they don't know Hebrew and Greek? Things don't translate perfectly or we apply them to todays standards. I look at the facts put in front of me and base my beliefs off of that, unlike most who are told something from a very young age and grow up never questioning it and believe it with all their heart but never actually studying it or looking at it unbiasly.

If you want to question the Vikings fine...you made some good point. Some are correct and some are incorrect. But this argument is the same as the ones on ESPN (if you ever watch it) because they are split nearly 50/50. But to question what I study and assume it is bias is not right. I'm guessing you are a Christian that looks at me like some "atheist" prick who thinks Christianity is stupid. I noramlly don't agrue much with Christians unless they can read Hebrew and Greek and/or have studied literature. The reason is they are so BIAS and close minded. They don't know how to put their beliefs aside for a minute and look at the facts. If you want to question my studies or argue about Christianity you can PM me.

Childress! Brad Childress and Percy Harvin were just involved in an altercation. I predict that Childress will not make it through the season with all this drama.

My point was not about the subject matter you are studying, but that you keep contradicting yourself about being impartial when it comes to the Vikings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5776714
Here is the story behind the link...
After Zygi Wilf conversed with members of the organization, including players, the Minnesota Vikings owner left some of those he spoke to with the impression he is still contemplating firing coach Brad Childress regardless of whether the Vikings win or lose against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday, several sources told ESPN Senior NFL Analyst Chris Mortensen.

If the Vikings win, Wilf is expected to measure the manner in which the team plays and how Childress manages the game. If the Vikings lose, there is a growing likelihood he would promote defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier to replace Childress, the sources said.

Wilf was unavailable for comment, a team spokesman said.

Other members of the Vikings organization, including players, offered vivid description of the environment Childress has created around the team facility, including "we're walking on eggshells ... the air has been sucked out of the building ... nobody's having any fun."

Childress should have already coached his last game, some Minnesota players told ESPN's Ed Werder.
One veteran said: "I think there was a great window of opportunity this past week to make a change."

That player says the issues are the same as in recent years but have become more intolerable because of the team's 2-5 record. He says Childress has never been popular in the locker room.

One player described Childress as untrustworthy. Another said: "The players have had enough of his BS. He needs to go."

Wilf's displeasure with the Vikings coach built on an almost daily basis and the owner strongly considered firing Childress last week, league sources said.

For starters, Wilf did not approve of the way Childress handled the Brett Favre injury injury situation before Minnesota's game against the New England Patriots. The fact that the Vikings coach said he was unsure who would start at quarterback while Favre said he expected to start bothered Wilf, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Sources also told Schefter that what upset Wilf even more was Childress' decision late in Sunday's second quarter to go for a touchdown rather than kick a field goal during a tie game. Had Childress opted for the field goal, the Vikings could have taken a 10-7 lead into the half. The half ended 7-7, and New England controlled the game from that point on.

Also, a confrontation between Childress and receiver Percy Harvin grew so heated Friday afternoon that coaches and players were forced to separate them to prevent a physical exchange, according to team sources.

According to sources, Childress questioned Harvin's effort during the practice. When Harvin took exception, Childress suggested Harvin submit to further testing on the ankle. The debate escalated and "was as close to physical as you can get," according to the source.

After the two were separated, according to sources, a teammate told Harvin: "You just did what a lot of us have been wanting to say for years."

The erosion of support for Childress isn't merely the fallout from the coach's decision to abruptly cut Randy Moss. In fact, Childress said Vikings players agreed with him, saying many current players told him in recent days they would have lost all respect for him if nothing was done.

"This might be the eruption that awakens us," Childress said.

But another veteran player told Werder he has his doubts, saying, "It's so crazy around here that no one would even believe it outside the building."

Favre told Werder that hope remains, but just barely.

"I believe the guys on this team are committed to turning it around. But if you lose another game or two that you've got one foot in the parking lot," Favre said.

Some Vikings players believe he definitely will be fired if the underachieving Vikings lose to the Arizona Cardinals and some cling to the hope he will be even if they win.

Childress has said he has always made decisions with a what's-best-for-the-team mentality and downplays internal criticism, saying "there are adversaries or perceived adversaries in most all 32 NFL locker rooms."

As for Favre, he indicated that he might be done soon unless the Vikings start winning, saying: "There's still hope for us. If I thought there was no hope, I'd sit down."



I'm going to have to root for the Vikings to lose this one. I want Frazier as the coach and I want him to be our coach next year.

The main points I have been trying to make are these...
1. Childress is poison to the team and he is the problem not Moss. I said everyone has thought this guy is garbage for years. Finally an article where players are stepping up and saying it so people outside of MN know.
2. Moss was not a poision to the team and could have helped them out. When I first started bitching I did not hear about the whole catering thing. That is f*** up what he said to that guy. Whether you agree with him or not I don't think he did anything to deserved being waived. It sounds like to me once he got there he realized what kind of a coach Childress was and then after not getting the ball wanted out. I think Moss will help out the Titans.
3. I was just annoyed that no one gave the Vikings a chance this season because Favre was hurt and too old. But he was hurt and too old last year when the Vikings made a great run. Before Griffin and Rice went down I saw no reason the Vikings couldn't make a SB run as they did the year before even with a tougher schedule.
4. I know what's going on with my team.

I have held these beliefs all throughout this argument. I did change opinions slightly about things when I hear or read more about it (Mostly about Moss) but I still stand by what I say. And if Childress gets fired even after an extension I guess I will have proved my point there. And if Moss plays well for the Titans for the rest of the year I made my point there as well. The only thing I was incorrect about was the fact that I guess this is the year that Favre was just too old and too hurt to make things happen.

As I said earlier on the previous page, I will no longer question anything you say about the Vikings. So If you're publishing all of this extra... "analysis" for my benefit, it is unecessary.

The way you are saying it is making you sound like a d!ck. I feel like you are screwing with me over it. You have every right to question what I say. All I was looking for was for you to acknowledge the fact that I might know a thing or 2 about my team that you do not. It doesn't make me always right but you can't just assume you know everything either. You need to find a middle ground. If you ignore everything I say that is a bad way to look at things. The same as if you believe everything I say. When I tell people stuff I don't expect people to drop everything and change their beliefs, rather just take what I'm saying into consideration.

I was just posting the latest things to show you I am not making stuff up and to show you my sources to show you that I am not bias about everything. If you are serious and you want me to be your sole source of Vikings knowledge fine, but I would rather you just look at things objectively.

I don't require a response.