more turbo suggestions. GT3071R

[lucky7]

ok, ive been all over the place with buying a turbo. first, i wanted a 35R, then an HX35. now im leaning towards the internally gated 3071R. not sure what ex housing to go with though. i want to keep it relatively simple. and on the cheaper side.

planning on buying some 850's and a tomei FPR when i pay my CC bill off this month. then im thinking ill go with an internally gated 3071R, on the stock log mani. as much as id love to get an aftermarket manifold, its just another $1100, and i'd want an external WG to go with it. i want 400hp at the wheels, no questions asked. how do you guys feel about this?? i dont mind spending $1200 on the actual turbo, if its going to make the power i want, with a good spool. all while being internally gated. im not sure whether to go with the .63 or .82 a/r housing. im planning on autoxing the car. im afraid that if the boost comes on too hard, ill be spinning out alot. im sure i would get used to it. but im really unsure at this point.

its just one of those things ive been beating myself up about. i want to make the RIGHT decision, the FIRST time. its not something cheap, so i dont want to EFF it up.

[Shocker]

.82 be done with it, 850's are a bit large, go with 6's or 7's. Carl made 400 on 18 psi I do believe, its do able.

[Darius]

Yeah the .63 comes on pretty hard and fast for auto crossing. You'd get up to 3500 rpm and start spinning tires.

I agree with shocker that 850s are too big for those power goals. I would stick with 600s since they will be soo much easier to tune than 850s. If you are buying them for future upgrades, then that is understandable too.

[lucky7]

didnt carl have a 20? if he did, thats impressive.

with the injectors, im not really sure. dont know what my final decision will be. i figured id go big now, so i wouldnt ever have to worry about it again. but you're right, i dont need 850s. maybe ill go smaller. but this turbo sounds amazing from what ive been reading.

[rbsileighty]

Carl has a 20...

.82 for sure on a 25 as that was a consideration before I got my 3071 for my 20 (spoken with Tial's owner a few times on this one...)

What are you using for engine management?

Take a look at this for sizing the injectors and don't hesitate to call them... I haven't spoken with RC but they've been around a long time and injectors of our engine's generation (pentle type... pretty much if not all cars now have ball /valve seat and orifice plates) are their thing...

I call almost all of the companies I respect for their opinion and to see how competent they actually are in what they do anyway...

http://www.rceng.com/technical...lXvYW

If I had a 25 I'd run a 35R... I'm probably going to the meet for the new Detroit Nissan/Infiniti on Saturday if you want to talk about it

http://www.niodetroit.com/

[lucky7]

gotta work this saturday. i had no idea that site even existed... wow.

anyhow, i origionally wanted a 35R. but it dawned on me that that would make ALOT of power for this car of mine. like, too much for me to handle any time soon. that, and it wouldnt be that spectacular on a track. it would be down right scary IMO. so something a bit smaller with quick boost sounds like fun. to be completely honest. i havnt really fallen in love with turbos like everyone else seems to. lol, im sure that sounds odd. but the power delivery of a turbo car can sometimes be miserable if you ask me. there is something to be said about a med sized turbo. too small, it runs out of juice up top. too big...well, you know. i am just really confident the 3017 will give me the power AND delivery to satisfy me.

thanks for those sites.

[rbsileighty]

That's the thing... the 35R... from speaking with Tial quite a bit (I helped build the exhaust for the owner's Audi)... will surprise you with it's response due to the balance between the turbine and exhaust wheels

I'd run a 30R at the smallest looking at the comp maps... but that's my opinion

Found this by accident:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

STi... but kind of neat to watch the boost climb...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNGQmPpK5U4

I need to find my calc and run some numbers, but I'm really starting to think after reading some more of my old stuff... if you only want a 300whp with response... stay stock b/c with minor mods you can almost get there
Modified by rbsileighty at 11:48 PM 2/26/2008

[BoostFab]

my vote on sc61

[lucky7]

why SC-61?? i dont think you can get those with an internal gate.

i forgot to add, im running EMS.

[BoostFab]

why SC-61?? i dont think you can get those with an internal gate.

i forgot to add, im running EMS.

why not use external gate, it's better in controlling spikes.

[lucky7]

how many people use an external gate on the log manifold? the 3071WG just seems so cost effective to me.

[rbsileighty]

Found this looking around... this is the setup:Garrett GT30R (0.63 exhaust housing) (real gt30r - 6 blade, fluted inlet)Tial 38mm external wastegateStock Manifold, w/ spacerNismo 740cc injectorsWalbro Fuel PumpSard FPRHybrid Monster FMICGreddy Profec B Spec II EBCApexi Power FCStandard Ignition CoilsZ32 AFMK&N air filter3.5" turbo back exhaust w/hi flow cat

274.1 kW @ 16psi

Full boost at 3800rpm.

[rbsileighty]

VS. Stock turbo... 200kw => ~268hp

I just don't see more than only a few hundred $ being worth RWHP and the goals you're talking about... and remember we are in MI... so you don't need to run a cat... that'll put you a nice bit higher I'd imagine



SETUP:

Full exhaust with hi-flow catHKS pod filterFMICPFC12psi

Got 199.1rwkw

[rbsileighty]

Here is a GT2835 Pro S (VERY similar to the GT3071R internal gate but HKS)



hks 2835 pro s kit, stock exh manifoid550 cc nismosz32 AFMapexi pfc + boost control kitK&N airfilter in stock airbox4'' cat 3'' exh

no oil catch can

341.9 rwhp or 255 rwkw @ 19 psi boost
Modified by rbsileighty at 12:22 AM 2/27/2008

[rbsileighty]

Ha... posting up a storm here... this is a lot more interesting than cutting tile though

Tial recommends against the internal gated version due to the way Garrett manufactures it (off the top of my head I think they trim the wheel to get it in that housing... but whatever it is... it's to that effect)... I originally wanted the same thing, but I have a GT3071R V-band housing after several discussions and looking at an internal unit

[Darius]

I think lucky is trying to get a 400hp setup as cheaply as possible. A 35R will not fit on the log manifold without spacing it. This translates into expensive and relatively labor intensive. The 3071 even needs a 1/4" spacer to clear the manifold.

Just slap in internally gated 3071 or 3076R on there, get the downpipe and turbo elbow made/adjusted, realign the intake and hot-side piping, and be done with the whole thing. Shouldn't cost more than $2000 total.

[lucky7]

exactly. ive had my car for 3 years. ive put ALMOST 4,000 miles on it. i dont want it to be sitting around waiting for parts and me saving money all summer. i just want it tuned and ready to roll. i want to put 40,000 miles on it this summer if i can. i hate that it sits. im tired of dumping ALL my money into it. i really wanted to do an external gate, and the 6boost manifold and all that stuff. but i would then have to commit myself, and chop my credit card in half. i was a bit out of control this time last year, buying random crap. i cant do that again. i REFUSE to do that again.

[Dano]

I'm getting a 3071R for mine whenever I actually get around to getting it off the engine stand and building it

[rbsileighty]

Found this looking around... this is the setup:Garrett GT30R (0.63 exhaust housing) (real gt30r - 6 blade, fluted inlet)Tial 38mm external wastegateStock Manifold, w/ spacerNismo 740cc injectorsWalbro Fuel PumpSard FPRHybrid Monster FMICGreddy Profec B Spec II EBCApexi Power FCStandard Ignition CoilsZ32 AFMK&N air filter3.5" turbo back exhaust w/hi flow cat

274.1 kW @ 16psi

Full boost at 3800rpm.

I wouldn't go smaller than this... 367hp at 16psi which is already moving toward choking on the comp map for the 30R... the 3071R moves out a few eff islands further at this same flow... and the 35R is right around choke side of it's sweet spot

It's your money and your car... and these are only my opinions

Some other interesting info... I'm just using some assumptions to read these maps, but using the same numbers here's how fast each wheel is spinning to make the this power

GT3071R - ~107482GT30R - ~100452GT35R - ~90028

I misread your original post thinking you wanted 300hp instead of 400...
Modified by rbsileighty at 2:34 PM 2/27/2008

[rbsileighty]

I guess my best recommendation is to take a look at a lot of people's setups and see what curve you like:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.c....html

Great ref... I've saved a lot of graphs and specs in the past on my computer for help when I'm thinking about what do to next (there is a RB20 post as well)

Hope this helps!

[rbsileighty]

If you can't tell... this topic interests me... I dunno man after talking with my friend with a 2.4 stroker big 16g DSM (use to be a Bosch engine cal engineer but moved back to Colorado... car is 350awhp on a super choked turbo based off of numbers... ridiculous response though)... and finding this dyno (cams would be a good investment on any RB20 or 25 IMO)... that 3071 could be a good choice for what you want... not really wanting to grow above 400

this is copied (3071R WG and 2835 Pro S are very similar):



HKS GT2835 Pro S Turbo - piping, heat shield, all braided oil lines* HKS Camshafts (260 / 9 I think)* HKS Oil cooler kit - all braided lines* HKS Split Dump Pipe (match ported, etc)* 3 Inch Cat back Exhaust System with Dual Apexi N1 Mufflers* 3 Inch Race Cat* OS Giken Adjustable Cam Gear* Plazmaman Plenum & Intercooler Kit* Splitfire Coil Packs* Iridium Spark Plugs* UAS Cold Air Intake (insulated)* K & N Pod Filter* Z32 AFM* Nismo 740cc Injectors (+insulators & orings)* Nismo Fuel Pump* Sard FPR* Apexi Power FC ECU + hand controller* Turbosmart Plumb Back BOV* Turbosmart E-Boost 2* Xtreme Lightened Flywheel* Xtreme cusioned button clutch* New O2 sensor* New Idle air motor
Modified by rbsileighty at 7:47 PM 2/27/2008

[lucky7]

i was on SDU a couple days ago. most of them seemed to make in the 260-270KW range with the 3071. they were also fairly stock. the guys with more mods were putting down just over 300kw. which is pretty perfect a number IMO.

im going to talk with my tuner, too. last time we spoke, he told me he could get 500hp out of a 30R (although he didnt specify). he pretty much told me that 500 was the level. under it, get a 30. over it, go 35.

do you know matt at monkey wrench?? they used a 30R on their street celica. made 550 on their dynapack at 26psi.http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_celica_gts.html

i just think that 400hp is a low enough number that i have alot of options. it should be really easy to do, and should keep me happy. and on top of that. i can afford to spend that kind of money.

[rbsileighty]

Interesting... I don't really know any shops around here other than I knew I didn't like TF before they shut down... ha

Catching up since the old data I have on my computer... looks like a lot more people have used the 3071R on SA... I'd say your choice depends on how much you want to grow... and what kind of fuel you want to make the power on (how high you can set your boost etc)... and I would just keep benchmarking until you find a power curve you're happy with and work towards that one

I'd say "this is what you should do for sure"... but I don't have anything other than benchmarking and my own calculations to base that off of unfortunately. At least we are lucky to have the AU guys to have some English speaking references... I'd try to limit the amount of ref you use off of other non RB motors... it helps give you an idea but not all X.XL pumps are the same (VE, power band etc.)

[lucky7]

yup. i know 4cyl vs 6cyl is going to change things a bit. but hopefully it will blow enough air for the 2 extra cylinders. spool should be great though, i'd imagine.

anyhow, nothing is set in stone quite yet. i think im going to go with the deatschwerk 740's and prob AEM afpr. ill do that probably sometime next week. gotta pay off my CC for the month. should be getting the statement any day now.

one question. why are the deatschwerks so much cheaper than PE injectors??

[BoostFab]

740cc definately will give you more cushion for furture upgrade.

[rbsileighty]

No history with either company (injectors)... call them and see what you're dealing with and how they recommend what you should use

That style injector is fairly understood since it's so old... might just come down to who's supplying them with injectors

[BoostFab]

deatschwerk has been proven very reliable w/ sr's and ka's guys; so i wouldn't worry about that.

[Bluefire]

bleh on the injectors....

+1 on the GT30r turbo (Great streetable power)

+1 on External wastegate (will always hold boost better, and give a smoother graph than an internal gate)

You should definitely be able to hit 400whp with that turbo and some cams. Sr's are getting 350whp all day long on the 2871r. As for making 500whp on a 30r, I highly doubt it. Either its running some crazy, motor destroying timing, or it running on race gas...

[Shocker]

deatschwerk has been proven very reliable w/ sr's and ka's guys; so i wouldn't worry about that.

Most definitely, I do believe Riggs is sponsored by them and is pushing their 1200 or 1600 injectors? one of the two.

I also run the 740's and the core refund they give is titties!