more pep in the step ka de

[waxdnuggz]

okay guys let me start by saying before i get flamed that i have searched for what seems like months even tho its only been about a week. Ive gone thru tons of posts from about 10 different forums aswell as the first 10 pages of google and cant seem to find the exact answer im looking for ive tried different word combos and abreviations and still nothing that suits my needs.

Heres my delima. I have extra s13 and s14 cams and im having a hard time figuring out which setup is right for what im looking for.

as of right now I have a long tube header on stock exhaust. (manifold had a stud broken off when bought it causing it to have a leak). I have an hks hi power exhaust sitting around that I do plan on putting on till i buy my new exhaust.

I have a fidanza alum 11lb flywheel waiting to be put on when I get my new clutch

i plan on making a short ram intake and routing it to where the battery is and moving the battery to the hatch.

i have pu motor and trans mounts aswell and a short shifter.



what im looking for in my car is a more smooth power band throughout low/mid/hi but leaning more towards the low to midrange since this is my street car. What i want is more low end and mid range and a little boost in upper end. i know that ka's power band is about 3000-5600 what id like to do is spread that out a little more like 2700-6000. Ive read about the redrilled cam gears and im all for it i have maybe 10 extras so thats no problem. i have a full set of 92 cams and a full set of 96 cams. which ones should I use where?

2 more things
also when I go to redrill my cam gears what degree for each cam setup?
and also whats a good ignition * for the cam setup without running a safc just quite yet


any and all help would be great or even a link would help i just cant seem to find what im looking for.

[daemonyk]

Read moar Or maybe stick to something easy like an RB swap

Try reading about what things increase torque, and what things increase horsepower. Both are part of the "powerband", and both are affected by different things, and both have different effects. You'll probably have to use torque for the low end, and horsepower for the top end, and the mid will depend on how the curves overlap I guess. Even then, I'm not sure what you're asking is possible, especially on a KA. that might be why you're not finding answers.

If you really want power, go turbo. Or finish that V8 you had. Or install that 1J you had.

Good luck

[jbracy7]

Its posible it is alot of hardwork (why most "lazy"ppl just swap it.)there's a guy on here with a 200hp N/A Ka so its do able, the poster's name Ajax the thread is 200hp NAKA pump gas Done, hope it helps

[waxdnuggz]

I sold the 1jz when I decided to go v8. And I don't have the cash to finish the build right now. Its ~1500 for a transmission and I still need all the accessories from an fbody. I'm not looking for goobs of power out of my ka. I'm looking to smooth out the power band.

I have read. But every motor is different. Most small displacement motor don't do well with a larger exhaust they lose torque but not the ka. I know I don't want 248/248.

I'm leaning more towards the 248/232 because of the results I've found I just cannot figure out what degrees to drill the gear and what to set my ignition advance at.

I understand to make more hp in certain spots you need to make more torque. I also understand that the higher the peak torque the higher the peak hp. I just figured if there was a way to smooth out the torque line a little then that would smooth out the powerband instead of it spiking so hard and dropping off the edge of a cliff.

I asked here becuase all the posts I come across are years old I was hoping someone found out more info on this and played with the combo/timing advance/cam degree.

Thanks for nothing

[jbracy7]

Dont get weird,you might be the first, i tried to help but flame on

[waxdnuggz]

And thanks jbracy ill check that out asap.

Daemonyk why are you even a member ofthis forum. Do you sit here all day just pushing peoples buttons? Honestly man I've seen you flame a lot of posts don't think I've ever seen you really help anyone. Your a waste of bandwidth. You try shooting me down just like you did about with the 1jz and 5.3 lsx. Bro I'm 22 and live by my damn self no help from anyone. And I still bust my a** to pay for play with cars. Sorry I didn't get the ls1 done fast enough for you how's that "swap" going.

[waxdnuggz]

That thanks for nothing was for daemonyk. Its like he has a crush on me and follows me around like a puppy. He pops up in every post never offering anything useful.

[waxdnuggz]

I read that post jbracy and that's pretty sick but not for me. I will eventually get my 5.3 into my car but for now I'm reping my ka. I'm not looking for a huge power gain at all. I'm not looking to dump a load of money into it.

I simply have a full set of s14 cams and s13 cams and wanted to know what setup/cam degree/ timing advance would be best for what I'm looking for that is all. I want more of a smooth power band with more usable power. I have no use of power at 7000 if I never really go past 6200.

[waxdnuggz]

Anyone?

[jbracy7]

I dont know if there is such info,i looked around for ya but no useable info,so my advice is to find info on regrinds and try to adapt what you learn/know from that,

[daemonyk]

Lemme break it down for you. Step one. Look up "how to s14 cams in s13 ka". I know that it is out there. I've read it. That will show you the basic location of where to drill the gears for a basic setup with s14 cams in s13 ka. Step two. READ, about how cam timing, lift, and duration, for both intake and exhaust cams, separately and together, affect power and torque on a KA - as well as anything else that can affect HP and TQ, like lengthening or shortening the intake piping. LEARN how those things affect the power band, and decide which cams you want to use based on their lift and duration, and how you think you might want to time them. Step three. Combine all that knowledge with the s14 base timing you learned in step one, and adjust it accordingly, based on your findings. This is why tuning shops get business. Tuning is tricky and requires experience and knowledge. If nobody has done this before, you're basically gonna have to figure it out for yourself. I get the impression that you know very little about "power band" and engine performance dynamics. That's why I suggested to read more.

As jbracy pointed out, there really isn't much out there on whatever it is you're trying to do. That's the way you'd have to go about it, near as I can tell . That's as much help as I can give you, which is more than the (nothing) you were working with before. If anyone else has anything to add, I'm sure they will. I razz you in the process of giving you help because I can't take you seriously because of your attitude.

How's my RB swap going? Installed, running, and pushing 10 psi is how it's going

Hey lookie that. I guess they ARE easy!

Good luck in your quest, let us know if you have any other questions

[waxdnuggz]

i only have the attitude because of your attitude man. I dont claim to know everything but i do know alot about alot of things. Im new to the ka not to cars. ive owned 3 240sx hatches. a 90 that i did a little work to but mostly just trying to get the body nice and have clean interior. my second one i drove home pulled the ka sold the ka and bought a 1jz coils, the rest of the suspension 5 lug brakes interior parts and parts to support the 1jz (radiator, metal stock for mounting ect. i havent done anything to ka's other then maintain and replace s***. ive never built 1 nor do i claim to. im not even trying to build this one im just trying to unlock some of the power i know a 2.4ltr 4cyl should have.

this is supposed to be a place of a common interest between car guys and a place of learning. you guys are so quick to flame because its not your way or you disagree. you wont talk about cam options more then a few times because its been mentioned but i bet you have no problem sitting at a bar with your buds arguing back and fourth about a ka/sr being better then the other??

im not trying to be an ***hole here im trying to find knowledge that i know other people have about something with out spending a s*** ton of time to find something so simple. its like why would i spend a month researching when some one whos done it can point me in the right direction and i can knock a week or so off my time? thats not being lazy its being efficent. if your just here to make a point and let someone sink in the water then why be here? if you have knowledge about something that you truely enjoy and love talking about it then why not talk about it?

you dont like me becuase i dont take s*** from you? your always the first one into posts to tell someone there stupid or make a s*** comment, and thats wrong man. im here to learn ive done my homework and im still not achieving what im looking for man so i asked for help. just becuase you know more about something then me doesnt make me less of a mechanic or less knowledgable it just means you know more about something. i bet i know more about another topic then you nad you know more about something else thats why im here so i can help prevent someone from reinvinting the wheel and help them go on and make a car.

[waxdnuggz]

now back to the topic. notonly do i have a set of s14 camsi have a complete head. so what ive been pondering all day was to maybe do some mild porting and gasket matching with the s14 head. replace some of the guts. like high rate springs to support a little more rev because i know its not the bottom end that usually goes in the higher rpms its the valvetrain. i dont want to go over sized valves so i can maintain low end and great streetability.

i was also thinking while i have the head apart to have a machine shop deck it to raise compression and run a thinner then stock HG any thoughts on this? at this point would i need a tune or could i get away with just running mid grade 89 gas? im not trying to get goobs of power out of it but just like the title says have a little more pep in the step.

also i did a little more research on cams and angles. if i were to go with a 248/232 exhaust and degree the intake 3.5 degrees that would close the overlap a little creating more low end but less upper end becuase the two valves will be open together a shorter time resulting in less of the "sucton" effect caused by the exhaust valve being open at the same time as the intake starts to open pulling more clean air in and pushing used air out. If that is correct then im a little confused.

heres why, wouldnt this whole process work similar to a straw or a garden hose. the smaller the exit hole the higher pressure so wouldnt that move the exhaust faster? if paired with a good flowing header and a 3 inch exhaust that should be better right?

i understand the short ram intake creates better throttle response because the air travels a shorter distance but would that lower torque becuase the velocity is lower creating less pressure then with a longer intake?

does that sound right?

[daemonyk]

See? Now we're getting somewhere! I'm really not being a b**** when I tell people to read more. I tell it to everyone, and it's something I believe in and do myself constantly. I don't mind teaching people something new, but I don't care to teach them the collective science and theory behind something along with it. So I give them the important parts. Then its up to them to go read up on what they don't understand and try to fill in the gaps to the best of their ability. Get as far as you can, THEN come back with new questions. I don't feel that's unreasonable, and I hold myself to the same standard.

Youre half right on the restriction thing. Up to a point it does accelerate the air. Beyond a point it causes a blockage. Inversely, with a wider opening, below a certain point, you lose velocity. Thats why (generally) long intakes get better low power and short intakes get better top power - both slightly at the cost of the other. So you are exactly right about the short air intake, too. So what you do is, I figure, you use the intake to gain one aspect of power, and the cam setup to compensate for it or offset it - or however you want to look at it. You config one for low end, and the other for top end. Then in theory you get both. Ish. So like, intake set for low end, cams set for top end - or vice versa.

IIRC torque grabs before HP, so I'd see how much the intake setups and cam setups - separately - affect the low and high end, and then decide wich I wanted to use for what. Whichever of the two affects tq more is what I'd prioritize, then set the other for the top end.

As for exhaust, I think stock is 2.25. Increasing to 2.5 should be fine if youre going to increase it. Too big and it may not scavenge the exhaust right due to the same low density / acceleration problem

As for the HG, I'm not sure how that would affect things regarding a tune or power increase.

FSM says you should run at the least 91 octane at the very minimum - that you *can* run on lower (as low as 87), but performance will suffer (FSM Pg. GI-4). So you should be running higher grade anyways if you can My KA always ran like mud if I put regular in her. Always 93.

I don't know that you'll get more overall power, but I'm pretty sure you should be able to jiggy out some slick throttle response / acceleration.