More build questions CA18DET

[jrchamp86]

Im rebuilding my ca and I have some questions I couldn't find the answer to.
• does the SR20DET turbo intake piping fit the CA?
• its ca18et water pump and ca18de oil pump right?
• im trying to stay away from cometic HG ARP head hold combo. So what would be better stock head bolts with cometic HG or stock HG (with copper spay) and ARP head bolts?
• im keeping th stock pistons with the 83mm bore. Will the cometic 84mm streetpro head gasket work?
•what the procedure on seating the piston rings with this turbocharged engine? Do we bring it into boost?
•does anyone know if the horsham chips effect the butterfly valves? Id like the keep them working. They don't respond to my emails...

Thanks, John

[tommey]

I cant answer all of these questions, but i dislike the fact that "everyone" is running arp head bolts because they think they need it.
If you keep temperatures in check stock headgasket will do just fine also.

Stock headgasket and bolts have seen 550 hp for 2 years now without any issues..

84mm gasket will work with stock bore.

[themadscientist]

CA18DE oil and water pump. As far as the intake pipe, if you mean going into the turbo, it should be close enough to get it on. If you mean leading into the throttle, no, you have to modify that. The redtop intake is aimed different. The S14 SR is a bit more like the CA. For the head gasket, it's not boost that blows them it's detonation. If the surfaces are true, head bolts torqued properly and the tune done well the stock gasket is fine IMO. Studs are nice, but not an absolute must.

[float_6969]

CA18ET water pump, and CA18DE oil pump.

If you use the S13 SR intake, it should work.

I'm running a Felpro head gasket and ARP studs. Only reason for the ARP's is because I lost the head bolts waaayyy back when I rebuilt the motor the first time and ARP's were easier to find and cheaper than stock bolts.

To break in the engine; http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

No, the Horshams won't control the butterfly valves. Theirs is based on the UK ECU which doesn't have the valves.

[jrchamp86]

I meant the intake that to the turbo that the air filter connects to. That covers it. Thank you for all the feed back, lots of help.

[jrchamp86]

CA18ET water pump, and CA18DE oil pump.

If you use the S13 SR intake, it should work.

I'm running a Felpro head gasket and ARP studs. Only reason for the ARP's is because I lost the head bolts waaayyy back when I rebuilt the motor the first time and ARP's were easier to find and cheaper than stock bolts.

To break in the engine; http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

No, the Horshams won't control the butterfly valves. Theirs is based on the UK ECU which doesn't have the valves.

I spoke to soon....
my plan was to replace the clutch with a spec stage 2+ while the engine was out being rebuilt but from what iv read youu have to break the clucth in completely opposite from the way youu seat the rings. Is they a clutch that doesn't need to be broken in? My rings are bad and my clutch is weak so they both have to be replaced. Got any ideas?

[nickhebert]

In a rebuild is it nessacary to put need rings on it the end gaps still meet the specs?

[float_6969]

It's ALWAYS recommended to replace and gap the rings if you have the engine apart.

[TheMAN]

it's not just a recommendation, it's a must
I talked to my machinist and he explained why... new rings can only seat when there is a semi-rough surface in the cylinder bores right (honing in other words)? so since that is the case, how do the seat (wear in)? The rings will eventually wear into a pattern groove with the cylinder bores... it's microscopic and you can't see it... but if you moved them out of position, they won't seal properly anymore... seated rings won't dance around in the ring lands, while new rings will until they are seated

so this is why, no matter how new an engine, rehoning and new rings is a must


as for the head bolts... the CA head bolts are torque to yield... and it is generally a bad idea to reuse torque to yield bolts instead of replacing them.... since they are expensive, ARP head studs are cost effective... though slightly annoying to install

[TheMAN]

CA18DE oil and water pump. As far as the intake pipe, if you mean going into the turbo, it should be close enough to get it on. If you mean leading into the throttle, no, you have to modify that. The redtop intake is aimed different. The S14 SR is a bit more like the CA. For the head gasket, it's not boost that blows them it's detonation. If the surfaces are true, head bolts torqued properly and the tune done well the stock gasket is fine IMO. Studs are nice, but not an absolute must.

yup, and a good way to keep that from happening is a J&S safeguard as I said a few times before
uses a wideband bosch knock sensor which "hears" better than your own ears, have fast microprocessors which has a much faster reaction time than your foot or the stock system.... it's cheap insurance IMO

not really needed for stock or simple bolt ons, but definitely recommended with lots of boost

I have seen it save motors where without it, the motor would have been in pieces... it really does the unbelievable

[themadscientist]

Why for? Never used them, but I hear them spoken of in disgruntled tones.

[cbh148]

So I take it the whole "ARP head studs + Cometic head gasket = problems" rumor is still floating around?

I'm hoping this is disproved because this is exactly the combo I'm running. No issues so far though, but I did have my block decked and head resurfaced to the proper 50 RA smoothness.

[float_6969]

NO, the combo isn't the problem. ARP's are fine. Cometics are fine. The issue was, and always has been, with proper machining of the block and head. The Cometic requires a certain roughness to work. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but if it's not met, the HG won't seal.

[s13drifter88]

Both should be finished to a 50RA or smoother with no more than .0007 surface tolerance

[float_6969]

That's the specs!!! Thx!

[s13drifter88]

Its all in the machining. MLS doesnt have as much "squish" to fill in gaps so it wont seal a rough surface and wont "fill" any significant surface gaps. For anyone planning on doing MLS my $.02 is to only do so if you plan on rebuilding the engine cause the block should be surface and I dont think anyone wants to pull their engine and have the block surfaced just for a head job. My opinion, Id go MLS if shooting for over 400whp since the stock h/g and studs will hold about what the internals will hold.

Also something else I found that I thought might be intersting. The myth of the ARP washer problem...

I had a friend point out socket diameter to me which I never thought of. For anyone that has ever installed ARP's in a CA we all know that the socket can be a snug fit into the head. We used 2 different sockets on a Snap-On digital Tech Wrench. The first torque sequence the socket kind of "drug" against the head while torqing. Using the socket I turned down in the machine shop we noticed we got about an extra 5-8ft lbs before coming up to spec since it made no contact with the head while turning and any additional drag, contact or friction will give a higher reading. Now Idk if this applies to every socket and everyone else's engine but I noticed it with mine and thought it might be a useful observation to post for anyone to consider later on but 5-8ft lbs can be pretty significant considering that an MLS gasket wont be as giving as an OEM gasket would be.

Hope this might help anyone down the road and prevent any more failures

[float_6969]

We'll find out soon if a Felpro will handle 400+ and ARP's. I'm expecting it to.

I bought a cheap socket and ground down the outside till it didn't touch anymore. If you're NOT doing this, you're doing it WRONG, and ^^^^^^ is why.

[s13drifter88]

Idk about Felpro, I've had mixed experiences with them. Great results with my small blocks including a nitroused (175 perimeter shot) 417 stroker and not so great results with some other engines. I like to think I did everything right but I make mistakes like anyone else so I won't condemn them. I've always liked OE gaskets or of coarse the Cometic sets. Just my preference though lol

[float_6969]

I've run Felpro gaskets on the engine for almost 10 years, no issues. It's detonated plenty of times and seen at least 300 hp. Felpro works on the CA IMHO.

[s13drifter88]

I won't argue with a proven testimony lol