I've searched, but can't find anyone complaining about problems with these cars on the track(road course).
Common things I can think of with other cars:
1. Oil starvation in long, high G corners. Would a GReddy oilpan solve this? Is it baffled, or just increase capacity?
2. Oil temps. I'm thinking with a turbo and the small(~3 qts?) oil capacity, that an oil cooler is a must have item.
3. What about coolant temp while we're talking heat? Is the stock radiator up to the task of cooling a ~250-300rwhp SR20 for 30-40 minute stretches of mostly WOT with a FMIC blocking airflow?
4. Are there any quirks with the engine, like it overheats on specific cylinders, or coolant flow to the head is low? Nissan usually overengineers the crap out of their motors(which is a good thing :ylsuper ), so I wouldn't expect this.
Just trying to see what I'm getting myself into here before I buy an S13 to prep for track duty!
Mods to get an SR trackworthy
1- the greddy pan is +1qt extra capacity and it is baffled
2- 5qts with the greddy pan, I have no oil heat problems
3- Only time my motor even got close to overheating was driving in 105* weather at about 100mph for about 30 minutes. EGT's got a bit high (800ish) and the temp started to rise a bit, but all was still well and it cooled down quicky.
4- No quirks that I know of...
2- 5qts with the greddy pan, I have no oil heat problems
3- Only time my motor even got close to overheating was driving in 105* weather at about 100mph for about 30 minutes. EGT's got a bit high (800ish) and the temp started to rise a bit, but all was still well and it cooled down quicky.
4- No quirks that I know of...
See track driving would be long periods of WOT with getting off the gas long enough to brake real hard(10-15 seconds max) then back on the throttle. This would go on for about 30-40 minutes. Hopefully at Road Atlanta, I'll eventually push an S13 powered by an SR20DET to over 135mph on the back straight just to give you an idea of how much long I'll be in it.
I'm just wondering if I can expect the motor to be dead reliable in stock form with this type of abuse.
The GReddy oil pan sounds like a winner. I'll probably rig myself up a homemade oil cooler kit to keep costs down.
Are there any low cost radiator replacements? Like a radiator from a 300ZX, Q45 or something like that? Better safe than sorry.
I'm just wondering if I can expect the motor to be dead reliable in stock form with this type of abuse.
The GReddy oil pan sounds like a winner. I'll probably rig myself up a homemade oil cooler kit to keep costs down.
Are there any low cost radiator replacements? Like a radiator from a 300ZX, Q45 or something like that? Better safe than sorry.
-
I H8 UR DSM
- Posts: 3196
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 8:06 am
- Contact:
If your road racing it, i'd definitly upgrade to a Greedy 2 row radiator, and Oil Cooler....transmission cooler if you feel frisky wouldnt be a bad idea...but i would not use the stock rad. and would def. recommend oil cooler...but im also not sure...do you want to do it right, or do a budget car w/ mismatched parts from junkyards? I mean in one sentence you sound serious, then you sound like you want to cut corners (no offense)..,But if you want a Reliable track car, thats going to be consistant and quality, do it right, use good components, and have equipment to monitor all your engine diagnostics.Everyone i know who runs road races, uses an oil cooler, and the best radiator they could get their hands on.Personally i feel the transmission does get hot, and would use a transmission cooler as well.I'd also recommend quality electric fans on the rad. but thats just me.
Well, not meaning to sound boisterous here, but I'm an engineer - so I have no qualms about putting together alot of my go-fast components and am quite confident I could identify components that would work well for their intended application. Things like the GReddy radiator and GReddy oil cooler kit are overpriced IMO due to their convience. These two things together would cost over $1k! I would much MUCH rather use a larger radiator from another model car and adapt it to fit, then piece together an oil cooler kit and put the ~$600 I save into going faster. Which is the ultimate point of this isn't it? I want to go fast, I want to humiliate Porsche 911's, NSXs and BMW E46 M3 out on the track with a humble, somewhat ratty S13 240SX. I don't want to go to car shows, I don't want to add another JDM part to my mod list. In fact, I've found that buying as many items from this side of the big pond keeps prices down on Japanese cars. The reason why I mention things like a GReddy Oil Pan and a FMIC kit is that while I *could* construct something similar to these two items, it would take me far too long and be way too much of a hassel compared to buying a premade kit. The oil cooler kit is ridiculous for what you get though IMO.
I don't know if a manual transmission would really need a cooler. Sure it gets a little hot, but not in to a level where you'd experience viscosity break down of the transmission oil.
Also planning on going with electric fans on the radiator that are activated by a toggle in the cabin. Definitely one of those things you turn on pulling into the paddock so that at idle your temps go down, not up.
Appreciate the advice.
I don't know if a manual transmission would really need a cooler. Sure it gets a little hot, but not in to a level where you'd experience viscosity break down of the transmission oil.
Also planning on going with electric fans on the radiator that are activated by a toggle in the cabin. Definitely one of those things you turn on pulling into the paddock so that at idle your temps go down, not up.
Appreciate the advice.
-
I H8 UR DSM
- Posts: 3196
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 8:06 am
- Contact:
nah, i hear ya....
I mean, yea, the radiator thing is true, and the difference between say a koyo and greddy is not in its cooling abilities but in some little differences....the 'best' bang for the buck (before digging through junkyards) would be to take the measurements you want, then getting a radiator from summit or any domestic racing parts place that offers low prices (who cares if its for a chevy camaro, as long as it fits)....and someone w/ engineering capabilities shouldnt have a problem with that i wouldnt think ( my bro is an engineer, you dudes are smarty pants)..
The greedy transmission (greedy was not a typo) are overprices, and are made of some better parts than lets say a summit racing kit....but the price difference does not equal out
ARP also makes a good oil pan for the SR.
The oil cooler, im sure there is a cheaper option...im sure YOU could get a summit kit or something to work (and if you do tell me or sell me one!!!), its just too time consuming for most of us to attempt, therefor we go burn all our money on an overpriced 'brand name' because it was easier....
but if you are a do it yourselfer, of course you can do make something competitively competitive (LOL) with the big brand name products....we need more DIY'ers around here!
I mean, yea, the radiator thing is true, and the difference between say a koyo and greddy is not in its cooling abilities but in some little differences....the 'best' bang for the buck (before digging through junkyards) would be to take the measurements you want, then getting a radiator from summit or any domestic racing parts place that offers low prices (who cares if its for a chevy camaro, as long as it fits)....and someone w/ engineering capabilities shouldnt have a problem with that i wouldnt think ( my bro is an engineer, you dudes are smarty pants)..
The greedy transmission (greedy was not a typo) are overprices, and are made of some better parts than lets say a summit racing kit....but the price difference does not equal out
ARP also makes a good oil pan for the SR.
The oil cooler, im sure there is a cheaper option...im sure YOU could get a summit kit or something to work (and if you do tell me or sell me one!!!), its just too time consuming for most of us to attempt, therefor we go burn all our money on an overpriced 'brand name' because it was easier....
but if you are a do it yourselfer, of course you can do make something competitively competitive (LOL) with the big brand name products....we need more DIY'ers around here!
Yea, I was figuring of getting alot of my stuff through Summit or Jegs. Universal radiators, then either borrowing a welder(I suck at it though) or getting a muffler shop to slap on some brackets and then work on the lines.
The oil cooler kit shouldn't be too hard assuming there is an easy place to tap in on the block and then have the return line go somewhere(vague because I really don't know on an SR). I'd like to avoid having it dump into the oil pan, but that might be an option.
As for what engine to choose, I'm still undecided between a KA-T and an SR. KA-T has torque, which I love. Yet I feel I'll eventually end up popping the block even at a conservative boost setting. Which wouldn't be so bad if I thought a mild build-up on a spare block would yield me a dead reliable setup that I could just drop in when that happens. Yet I still have the feeling that even with forged pistons, decent tuning and good cooling - a KA-T is a timebomb waiting to go off when using it like I'm intending to use it. Only downside to an SR is the cost, and the fact that no engine is truly bulletproof. If I manage to pop an SR block I'll be one pissed off track fiend.
I figure 280-310rwhp would be more than enough to satisfy me once I dropped the curb weight down to about 2400-2500lbs. Both engines can do it, but the devil is in the details.
I think I'm sick though, I don't even own an S13 yet, and probably won't for quite a while(it WILL happen though!). I've just got to plan out everything so I know what I'm getting myself into.
The oil cooler kit shouldn't be too hard assuming there is an easy place to tap in on the block and then have the return line go somewhere(vague because I really don't know on an SR). I'd like to avoid having it dump into the oil pan, but that might be an option.
As for what engine to choose, I'm still undecided between a KA-T and an SR. KA-T has torque, which I love. Yet I feel I'll eventually end up popping the block even at a conservative boost setting. Which wouldn't be so bad if I thought a mild build-up on a spare block would yield me a dead reliable setup that I could just drop in when that happens. Yet I still have the feeling that even with forged pistons, decent tuning and good cooling - a KA-T is a timebomb waiting to go off when using it like I'm intending to use it. Only downside to an SR is the cost, and the fact that no engine is truly bulletproof. If I manage to pop an SR block I'll be one pissed off track fiend.
I figure 280-310rwhp would be more than enough to satisfy me once I dropped the curb weight down to about 2400-2500lbs. Both engines can do it, but the devil is in the details.
I think I'm sick though, I don't even own an S13 yet, and probably won't for quite a while(it WILL happen though!). I've just got to plan out everything so I know what I'm getting myself into.
-
I H8 UR DSM
- Posts: 3196
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 8:06 am
- Contact:
I thought about the CA, but I was thinking that with my fastidious nature I would end up replacing EVERYTHING on the engine(rod bearings, every seal and whatnot) just due to the fact that it's got to be over 10-11 years old at minimum. That'd offset alot of the cost savings.
Then the fact that I really would like to have a broad powerband makes things even harder on the little CA. Sounds like a stout little engine, but it seems like it would need at least 8000RPM to really make it have a usable powerband and ~300rwhp. Don't think that's too feasible without really building it up from what I've read on these boards.
Plus there really aren't any aftermarket parts available here, so after a few little mods you're stuck with going to a bigger turbo. Which increases lag, and that's real bad.
Sometimes you really need a fast and responsive engine so you can balance the car right on the hairy edge of traction going around a corner. Something where you mash the loud pedal and have to wait even half a second or more for meaningful power is really pushing it. The rear end needs to be planted with the throttle through almost every corner, so if you don't have the power available you might just be going into a wall.
I don't really want to start a CA vs. SR vs KA-T thread war here(I was saving that for when I actually get my 240SX, since it seems a right of passage here!
).
But do you think a CA18DET + CA16DE cams + intake, exhaust, downpipe + a S15 T28BB + fuel and S-AFCII would spool before ~3,200-3,500RPM and pull cleanly to about 7800-8000RPM reliably?
Seems after all that trouble I could just go with a KA-T with a junkyard T3 setup and pop block after block and still be ahead on power and money... Hrmmm... decisions.
Then the fact that I really would like to have a broad powerband makes things even harder on the little CA. Sounds like a stout little engine, but it seems like it would need at least 8000RPM to really make it have a usable powerband and ~300rwhp. Don't think that's too feasible without really building it up from what I've read on these boards.
Plus there really aren't any aftermarket parts available here, so after a few little mods you're stuck with going to a bigger turbo. Which increases lag, and that's real bad.
Sometimes you really need a fast and responsive engine so you can balance the car right on the hairy edge of traction going around a corner. Something where you mash the loud pedal and have to wait even half a second or more for meaningful power is really pushing it. The rear end needs to be planted with the throttle through almost every corner, so if you don't have the power available you might just be going into a wall.
I don't really want to start a CA vs. SR vs KA-T thread war here(I was saving that for when I actually get my 240SX, since it seems a right of passage here!
).But do you think a CA18DET + CA16DE cams + intake, exhaust, downpipe + a S15 T28BB + fuel and S-AFCII would spool before ~3,200-3,500RPM and pull cleanly to about 7800-8000RPM reliably?
Seems after all that trouble I could just go with a KA-T with a junkyard T3 setup and pop block after block and still be ahead on power and money... Hrmmm... decisions.
You are completely correct with the amount of stress you will put on the car. Just bring spare pads and fluid.I love tracking my SR'd 240 and the things that I have to replace often are:
1. Gaskets2. Tires3. Brake pads
That's it!
Things I reccomend changing-
-New clutch (stage II will be fine, anything higher and revmatching becomes too important)-180sx brakes (cheap and will fit in all wheels)-dot 4 or higher brake fluid (so you can't boil the stuff)-good racing pads (not too aggessive but will resist fade)
Other than that I have a great time at the track with my car. Very fun and you will get to beat up on car that should be killing you. I kept lapping a 944 turbo.
Edit: the stock rad with electric fans worked fine with the SMIC but with the FMIC I needed to go for the big Koyo to keep temps in check.
1. Gaskets2. Tires3. Brake pads
That's it!
Things I reccomend changing-
-New clutch (stage II will be fine, anything higher and revmatching becomes too important)-180sx brakes (cheap and will fit in all wheels)-dot 4 or higher brake fluid (so you can't boil the stuff)-good racing pads (not too aggessive but will resist fade)
Other than that I have a great time at the track with my car. Very fun and you will get to beat up on car that should be killing you. I kept lapping a 944 turbo.
Edit: the stock rad with electric fans worked fine with the SMIC but with the FMIC I needed to go for the big Koyo to keep temps in check.