Metal Matrix Pads Part II

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vq35de
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 4:20 pm
Car: G35 Sedan Leather 6MT

Metal Matrix Pads Part II

Postby vq35de » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

Got, like em, braking isn't a lot better than stock, cold stops are fine, hot stops are great, but MUCH LESS brake dust.

total cost 119.00two pairs of pads, rotors turned, new DOT 3 Brake fluid (no Motul yet). I can afford that every 15-20 k miles


Q45tech
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Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl

Postby Q45tech » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

Why would braking be better than stock the oem pads were designed to minimize distance regardless.........at least for single 60 and 80 and 100 to zero magazine tests. They planned to beat BMW from the start!

Try the test that police cars pads are evaluated with: 3 - 90mph to zero stops within 5 minutes, then 3 - 60 mph to zero stops within the next 5 minutes in 80F ambient..........while the pads are monitored for temperature rise............should be close to 1000F from this exrecise.............vs the more typical 200-300F for single street 60 mph stop...............watch most pads melt to the rotors.

20 second WOT, then 4 second stop, then 20 sec WOT, then 4 sec stop, then 20 sec WOT, then 4 sec stop........then repeat 3 times from 60 mph.............I'll bet the factory pads pass this test, without increasing the stopping distance by more than 20 feet on the last stop!

I have used MM for the past 6 years [3 sets] on my 90 Q but the Powerstop rotors warp faster than with oem pads. Everything is a trade off.

Wish I could get the dusty G pad material in a size that would fit the Q calipers.........I love dust and hate to turn rotors.

vq35de
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 4:20 pm
Car: G35 Sedan Leather 6MT

Postby vq35de » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

i have pretty thoroughly tried thes out now. I still haven't seen any fade that wasn't attributable to the fluid (I left the cover off the reservoir for 12 hours overnight on a rainy night)

I since changed my fluid and these pads seem to stop better the warmer it gets, no fade apparent. I have done numerous back to back 80 to 30 stops on a deserted interstate, but I really hate to come to a complete stop from that speed unless it is necessary

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PalmerWMD
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Postby PalmerWMD » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

vq35de wrote: but I really hate to come to a complete stop from that speed unless it is necessary


Dennis' suggestion is a good valid test.but I dont blame you for not wanting to put your rotors thru that kinda torture.

Fred..:)

Q45tech
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Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl

Postby Q45tech » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

My point was that deciding on changing brake pad compounds should be thought out, if lower dusting and relatively equal WARM pad friction coefficient is what you want at the expense of the rotors Metal Masters are a good choice.

The is no free lunch if you change something then something else is affected..........from the balanced factory approach.

You have to evaluate pads over 30,000 miles to decide.

When you change front pads the problems usually shift to the rear units.

After all the equations of brakes /stopping are well known and well modeled.........pure and simple a heat modeling problem.Weight of rotors vs weight of car to stop.

A good test is to turn ABS/ traction off and evaluate how the car stops without technical assistance.

vq35de
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 4:20 pm
Car: G35 Sedan Leather 6MT

Postby vq35de » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

Q45tech wrote:The is no free lunch if you change something then something else is affected..........from the balanced factory approach.

You have to evaluate pads over 30,000 miles to decide.

When you change front pads the problems usually shift to the rear units.

A good test is to turn ABS/ traction off and evaluate how the car stops without technical assistance.


I agree with you Q45, the rear pads had extra wear to give as they weren't wearing as fast as teh fronts. (i lighted the car about 150 lbs since I bought it with exhaust mods)

I changed all my pads to metal matrix and no, I don't mind giving up a little rotor wear to help the dust condition.

I will have 30k on the new pads by this time next year. I don't know how to turn off ABS (i haven't tried pulling fuses) but I do have a pretty good idea how to threshold brake this car, besides i have noticed ABS coming on more frequently with the new pads, so i assume it is braking better, but no change in the SOTP feel

Q45tech
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Posts: 14365
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl

Postby Q45tech » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:06 am

ABS softwear [programming is set to perfectly the match the oem pads and tires ] changing anything will change the ABS. The more the ABS cycles the longer are the stopping distances.

Pads have a graph of friction vs pedal pressure and temperature. Every pad compound has a different slope and shape.

I don't seee how anything meaningful can be determine by seat of the pants testing, without actually measuring the stopping distance and pedal pressures and brake pad rotor temperatures...........my brakes feel good compared to what!


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