To some of us OGs this may sound familiar from the VH45de.
Technician says oil change intervals too long and the oil (Mobil 1 0w-40 and Castrol Syn 5w-40 is speced for these motors) gets too thin from fuel dilution.

(You can turn on close captioning translated to English via Settings)

Shorter oil change intervals obviously will help.
But the guy also found a lot of oxidation and he feels when the oil gets "too thin" its prone to oxidation and does not properly lube the chains.

Hmmmmm, maybe my recommendation to thicker oils not so crazy now ?

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:12 pm

Hmmmmm, maybe my recommendation to thicker oils not so crazy now ?

It was never crazy in the first place, but in engineering terms there needs to be a balance between lubrication and performance of the IVT hydraulics. For both Nissan and MB, it would have been smart to make the IVT response map in the ECM software "weight selectable" so the system could cope with thicker lubes just like coping with E85. But nooooooooo......

I think am going back to 5w-40 oils after seeing some of these german vids.

I had been going "down" to 10w-30 high milage oils ( more detergents and viscosity on the high end of the speced range) but now I am questioning my thinking on those.
Currently I have 4200 miles on my Xterra with non high milage Mobil 1 a buddy put in as a thank you for borrowing my Xterra for a few days.
It still looks good as of a week ago and half the miles were pure hiway driving ( 1900 miles round trip a couple weeks ago) but I think I want something thicker in my 163,000 mile VQ40de.

I'm just in awe of their shop. I think it is cleaner, and has nicer tile than my kitchen!

spam?

One thing he says several times is that the oil is too thin to proeprly lubricate the chains when it gets any fuel dilution.
and the oils used there are 5w-40 weights.

In this video he calls 0w-40 "too thin" for hard summer driving for these DOHC V8s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfH8fSoLuM

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:04 pm

spam?

For some unknown reason, the censor here objects to k- i- t- c- h- e- n.

Weird. VStar is correct. I was trying to say the "k word"

HaHa

It's always a balance of real world vs. paper spec. 15000 km OCIs are absurd even though some do it.
Fuel dilution seems to be key here, and indeed some engines are going to be more susceptible than others.
I have UOAs at every change on both of my VH45DEs, going back 14 and 16 years.
My current blend is 5qt M1 0w-30 AFE, and 1qt M1 0w-40 Euro. This has proven quite satisfactory for my needs over the last 10 years. I'm very fond of 0w-for the quicker flow on cold start.
I have at times gone more than 24 months between OCIs, but that is also because the cars see less than 1k a year now. Longest OCI for me was 7068 miles, which included a CA to FL summer trip and 90 minutes daily drive in FL heat for 6 mos--so any moisture was of course properly boiled out.

3Q Jay wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:10 pm

It's always a balance of real world vs. paper spec. 15000 km OCIs are absurd even though some do it.
Fuel dilution seems to be key here, and indeed some engines are going to be more susceptible than others.
I have UOAs at every change on both of my VH45DEs, going back 14 and 16 years.
My current blend is 5qt M1 0w-30 AFE, and 1qt M1 0w-40 Euro. This has proven quite satisfactory for my needs over the last 10 years. I'm very fond of 0w-for the quicker flow on cold start.
I have at times gone more than 24 months between OCIs, but that is also because the cars see less than 1k a year now. Longest OCI for me was 7068 miles, which included a CA to FL summer trip and 90 minutes daily drive in FL heat for 6 mos--so any moisture was of course properly boiled out.

Thanks for piping in.
BTW you say VH45des as in plural?..

I keep watching that german channel and I am amazed how many forced induction $120,000 Mercedes AMG need new engines at 80,000 , 60,000 even 30,000 miles.

Our Infinitis even the factory tubored ones, are like like Honda Civics compared to those in reliability and ease and cost of repair.

And the repair costs for even medium repairs are like $20,000 (no, thats not a complete engine, just heads from jumped timing)
Cats breaking and back pressuring into the motor at 8000 miles etc etc
Ona Nissan V8 it takes at least 120,000 miles of neglect to get to that point, if ever.

Complete engine replacement is $60,000 and thats just in parts.

Admittedly the AMGs perform better than even say a Q50 red Sport.
But considering how close the red Sports get to AMG performance at a fraction of the price and so much more reliability is just amazing.
And the M56 V8s had very very minor problems +recall(s) compared to those MBs.

Of course in germany they tend to think nothing of driving 140mph for an hour on end if its a Sunday morning...
But I think our Infinitis could keep up quite well ( assuming in perfect state of maintenance)
Next time I am taking a 3 year tour in Germany I am bringing a Infiniti Q50 RedSport with me, instead of the SUV.
The Infinitis got great reviews form the german motors press too Q50, Q60, M37, M56...
But the market simply wasnt big enough for yet another luxury brand over in Germany and Infiniti withdrew.
Infiniti still sells and is quite popular in Russia though.

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:44 pm

I keep watching that german channel and I am amazed how many forced induction $120,000 Mercedes AMG need new engines at 80,000 , 60,000 even 30,000 miles.

Our Infinitis even the factory tubored ones, are like like Honda Civics compared to those in reliability and ease and cost of repair.

And the repair costs for even medium repairs are like $20,000 (no, thats not a complete engine, just heads from jumped timing)
Cats breaking and back pressuring into the motor at 8000 miles etc etc
Ona Nissan V8 it takes at least 120,000 miles of neglect to get to that point, if ever.

Complete engine replacement is $60,000 and thats just in parts.

And to think, in much of Europe they're taxicabs (not the AMG GT specifically, but you get what I mean). Tch-tch.

Way back when, my first Engineering Manager, a brilliant guy from Israel, defined great engineering as, "Building for a nickel what any schmuck on the street can build for a dollar." That doesn't apply to moon shots for obvious reasons, but it certainly applies to production cars, even very fast ones. By that standard, the Red Q (or even my wife's '13 Altima) has more engineering in the left front lug nut than most Mercs have in the whole car.

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:41 pm

Thanks for piping in.
BTW you say VH45des as in plural?..

Yes, Bubba--one in each of my actives.
07/93 production-just over 155k
11/94 production-just under 154k

3Q Jay wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:50 pm

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:41 pm

Thanks for piping in.
BTW you say VH45des as in plural?..

Yes, Bubba--one in each of my actives.
07/93 production-just over 155k
11/94 production-just under 154k

Quite impressive to say the least!

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:59 pm

3Q Jay wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:50 pm

Yes, Bubba--one in each of my actives.
07/93 production-just over 155k
11/94 production-just under 154k

Quite impressive to say the least!

Thank you, sir! (IIRC you are/were an FGO)

They still get driven regularly, and see occasional momentary blasts to redline (but only after full warm-up of course).
btw- The 3.0Roots (Audi calls it TFSI-lame--it's a kompressor) in my wagon has noisy chains on cold start if it's been sitting more than 4 days or so. So, I think a lot of Marques have tensioner issues with age. That engine has less than 56k and spotless internals.

If those Mercedes owners used Motul I betcha the Motul 300V oil wouldn't let that happen so soon .
MOTUL...............................................MOTUL......................................ending with MOTUL
And it's slated for like 4k - 7.5k-max changes , SO it aint doing no stupid 10 or 15kmi changes by design! ......300V (group 5 Ester) Racing oil

VStar650CL wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:11 am

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:12 pm

Hmmmmm, maybe my recommendation to thicker oils not so crazy now ?

It was never crazy in the first place, but in engineering terms there needs to be a balance between lubrication and performance of the IVT hydraulics.

They're also trying to balance engine longevity against fuel economy (i.e., meet CAFE requirements).

Thinner oil causes less frictional drag on the engine.

Less drag means better fuel economy.

Better fuel economy means CAFE targets are met.

Skibane wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:51 pm

They're also trying to balance engine longevity against fuel economy (i.e., meet CAFE requirements).

Thinner oil causes less frictional drag on the engine.

Less drag means better fuel economy.

Better fuel economy means CAFE targets are met.

Yah, but for the driver, good fuel economy is optional. Having IVT's and chain tensioners that work right and cylinders that don't burn oil is mandatory. Not that our wonderful, CAFE-enamoured government could give a crap about that.

I'm no expert on motor oil by all means. Have owned 6 G50 Q45s. Currently #4 5 and 6 are still in the stables. Have only ever run mobil 1 0w-40 at roughly 8-10k mile intervals on every single one I have ever owned. Including #2 which made it to 396k miles. Of that 396 there was significant hard rough redline driving with the nico ecu. Have clocked well over 500k miles in G50 ownership. Won't run anything else for oil

BCC93QT wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:58 am

I'm no expert on motor oil by all means. Have owned 6 G50 Q45s. Currently #4 5 and 6 are still in the stables. Have only ever run mobil 1 0w-40 at roughly 8-10k mile intervals on every single one I have ever owned. Including #2 which made it to 396k miles. Of that 396 there was significant hard rough redline driving with the nico ecu. Have clocked well over 500k miles in G50 ownership. Won't run anything else for oil

I was not trying to throw shade on Mbil1 0w-40.
its a great oil have a bottle ready to go into ym Xterra any day now.
Thing is the German run very long OCIs,
12,ooo, 15,000 miles and more not a rarity but rather the rule.
A syn oil change costs bout $130 there, maybe thats why.

Also they do a lot of short tripping and its simply too much to avoid fuel and watr dilution.
this in turns lowers say a0-40 to not just a 30 weight but a thin one at that.
And we find time and again that is too thin to properly lube the timing chains.

Yeah I know. Just figured I would chime in with my experience with the 40 oil. Quite honestly I haven't even considered a German car in years. Let alone something on the newer side other than cheap easy to fix grocery getters

So the spam filter has been adjusted to not replace the word "kitchen" with the word "SPAM"

Apparently at some point there was a spammer hawking kitchen stuff, and the filter was set up to block that.

Q451990 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:04 pm

So the spam filter has been adjusted to not replace the word "kitchen" with the word "SPAM"

Apparently at some point there was a spammer hawking kitchen stuff, and the filter was set up to block that.

Hmmm, interesting but I ca now see the actual word you wrote

let me try it.. : kitchen

PalmerWMD wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:31 pm

A syn oil change costs bout $130 there, maybe thats why.

Everything revolves around environmentalism in Europe - and used motor oil is a "particular concern".

So, anything that can be done to discourage its production is fair game.

Extending the interval between oil changes, increasing the cost of oil changes...it all works toward the same goal.

Long OCI that BMW had for North American market were abandoned several years ago. Unfortunately "lifetime' ATF fills are still advocated although ZF days complete exchange by 50K miles.

Thinner oils with LL1 ratings on non M (S series) engines seldom have timing chain or timing chain guide failures except for early 2000 V8.

With turbos, I change my oil (M1 0W-40) every 5K miles. Some run till 10K. Not me.

So, running 40w oil in a 95 Q45 is ok? I happen to have a 12 qt box of 0w-40 Mobil 1 sitting around. Anyone else doing this? Does warmer or colder climate affect engine oil performance, when using 40w?

cbird805 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:03 pm

So, running 40w oil in a 95 Q45 is ok? I happen to have a 12 qt box of 0w-40 Mobil 1 sitting around. Anyone else doing this? Does warmer or colder climate affect engine oil performance, when using 40w?

The way viscosity works, the first number represents "won't get thinner than this when hot", the second represents "won't get thicker than this when cold". Using 0W40 in a cold climate is likely to get you codes for the IVT/EVT system on a cold day when the oil doesn't thin out completely before the coolant gets hot. It's probably fine in summer or in a warm climate, but that will depend on your particular ECM and under which conditions it unlocks the IVT's. I think the only way to know for sure would be to try it.