McCains Speech

[AZhitman]

Hmm. I guess I'd have to disagree with you there. I think that the President, as the CEO and leader of our nation, should ABSOLUTELY be a speaker who can persuade, empassion, and re-patriotize us. Especially in times of crisis and economic downturn.

And when has eloquence or the ability to motivate people NOT ranked high in the characteristics of a good leader? (Of course I might not understand your exact definition of "good" leader.) Let's see (in no particular order): Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Chavez, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Peron, Ghandi (Indjeera), Mandella. All were considered great leaders by their respective countrymen in their respective times, and all are also known for their great oratory.

And I think there are just as many "good leaders" who DON'T have the "gift of gab". The ones you mention are / were in positions of needing to be good orators to convey their thoughts and vision... Here's an example of what I mean, and it's totally off-the-cuff...

Ever see Saving Private Ryan? Hanks' character. Brilliant leader, but certainly no great speaker. Vince Lombardi? Aside frmo a few sound bites, not a great speaker, but widely regarded (even outside the sports world) as a great leader.

Leadership transcends venue, whether it be presidential, corporate, parental, battlefield, sports.

What if we had a candidate with a speech impediment? A deaf candidate? Or, taken to an extreme, a guy like Stephen Hawking?

There may be phenomenal leadership in there, but to expect him to go to the podium and make people swoon is simply not realistic.

Side note: I think much of this is a function of the times... notice most popular singers now are not unattractive? People want the whole package. You may have a fantastic voice, but if you look like Rocky Dennis, no recording deal for you. You think Joe Cocker or Janis Joplin would have made it in today's market?

[Encryptshun]

^ Yup, there are good leaders who are good speakers and who aren't necessarily good speakers. However, my rebuttal was to your "not ranked high" point. I think it does rank high -- just not always the overwhelming criteria.

[srellim234]

I think many people are just now realizing that Bush #1 was a decent President. Not very charismatic or a great orator but pretty effective in the world theater.

The History Channel pointed that out, too, on its series about the Presidents.

[Cold_Zero]

McCain's father and grandfather were both Admirals in the navy. This gave John an almost royalty status when, after losing his fourth airplane, he was taken in as a "prisoner of war". He only had 20 combat hours and yet he received 28 military commendations, medals, etc, making him one of the most highly decorated personnel of the Vietnam 'conflict'.

Being a former enlisted man myself I feel that nothing that this man has done was actually above and beyond the call of duty. Besides anyone who would use and abuse the fact that they were a 'war hero' as a political tool, so that they could get the support of all the flag wavers, doesn't know what it means to truly be a hero (hint: it's a selfless thing).

Give me a break. John McCain did not ride the coat tails of his father's career. To be honest, Admiral McCain looked upon his son with a certain distain because he did not conform to the normal Naval Career, his father being a submariner and he being an air dale.

It is utter bull **** to nit pick at John McCain’s 20 hours of Combat Flight time as if it can be compared to a Soldier or Marine’s experience in South Vietnam. The two experiences are really incongruent. John McCain’s combat experience aboard a carrier is pretty consistent with how things go on a carrier even today.Here are a few facts:Aboard the USS Forestfire (CVA-59) for 1584 hours in the Gulf of Tonkin.

Aboard the USS Oriskany (CV-34) for 624 days in the Gulf of Tonkin.

In total of the 92 days he was on station (in a combat zone) he flew 23 sorties into North Vietnam. It must be pointed out that flying into North Vietnam was more dangerous than flying air support in South Vietnam because of the presence of Soviet made SAM missiles and air intercept fighters. It should also be pointed out that the spy John Walker sold to the Russians information that was filtered down to the North Vietnamese that helped them to prepare for these raids into North Vietnam.

It should also be pointed out that John McCain spent 47,184 hours in captivity.

Now, let’s compare this to my father in laws experience. He was a radio intercept operator in South Vietnam. He roughly spent 12,280 hours in the combat zone in South Vietnam and 720 hours in Cambodia. No one really counts, for all intensive purposes, how many fire-fight hours you have participated in while you are in a combat zone. Your veteran status and ability to leave are not based on fire-fight hours.Give me a break guys.

While I agree in this present day in age the term 'Hero' is thrown around way to much. Specifically after 9-11. Both my Father, Uncle and Father in law served in Vietnam and that does not necessarily make them 'heroes' in my book. It must be pointed out that my Uncle, forward gunner on a mine sweeper was awarded the Silver Star (Valor) for putting out a fire on his sweeper during a firefight.

With that said, I know that all men in combat, leave a certain part of themselves on the battlefield. But you don't think that being a POW for 5 years, being tortured and most certainly resisting is 'above the call of duty?' Thank God none of my family was ever taken POWs. You might want to re-think what you said.

My father told me a story about one Marine that he knew that ws in Vietnam. His paltoon was pinned down by enemy fire along a riverbank. When the platoon call in to the Navy for an extraction, the sailor indicated that the water level was too low to send in boat. Hearing the traffic over the radio, a Coast Guard patrol craft went in to extract the Marines, ran their craft on shore, spun it around. The Marines jumped in and the coxswain took off like a bat out of hell for home. Those Marines never looked at the Coast Guard the same again. Hero? You bet your ***.bud

[Encryptshun]

Give me a break. John McCain did not ride the coat tails of his father's career. To be honest, Admiral McCain looked upon his son with a certain distain because he did not conform to the normal Naval Career, his father being a submariner and he being an air dale.

I don't think that's what he meant. He said:

McCain's father and grandfather were both Admirals in the navy. This gave John an almost royalty status when, after losing his fourth airplane, he was taken in as a "prisoner of war".

In point of fact, it is openly admitted that once the NVA found out who McCain was and who McCain' father was, they offered to release him. But McCain would not allow it due to the "first-in, first-out" policy.

To me, saying that he got preferential treatment due to his parentage is not only TRUE, but actually ENFORCES McCain's character in that he didn't take advantage of the situation.

[Cold_Zero]

I misunderstood what he was saying, I thought he was implying that John McCain gained something from the US Navy for being a legacy Officer. Maybe he could have thrown in mention of the North Vietnamese when he was talking about McCain's Royalty Status?

[Encryptshun]

It's called "Making lemonade".

Honestly, I don't really care what he really meant, I was just spinning it our direction.

[SteveTheTech]

John McCain deserves respect for his service to the country as all of the brave individuals do, but it shouldn't give you a pass. He has been a long term senator with interesting results, which is definitly not a pass.

I think that the McCains speach to the nation was dry at best, but thats what republicans like.More of the same. I think that the bigger issue is if McCain does get elected and something were to happen to the effect where he would have to hand over control either temporarily or permanently is Sarah Palin qualified to be the commander-in-chief?

Someone made a comment earlier almost rehashing the great flip flopping debate of the last go around. That's just classic I think that will work it's way into every election from now on. In the grand scale there all going to do that, its politics. There is no way to satiate everyone, and I think all the things they say should be taken with a grain of salt.

If Obama gets elected than he may raise taxes, and personally I think if everyone chipped in a few bucks we would actually be able to buy some of our debt from China, and get our national debt to a manageable level. I would skip my morning coffee for a few days to help my country regain its financial status.It's not an immediate answer but whats the saying every journey starts with one step, or something along those lines. Now I am not championing raising taxes for everyone but I mean honestly something needs to be done about it or it will only get worse. But it will be a cold day in hell before I drive Prius.

[Rev_D21]

I think Fred Thompson's speech to the RNC sums up my beliefs very well..

I am surprised Fraud Thompson was awake long enough to say all that. But based on the way it was typed I wouldn't be surprised if the crowd had to wait 10 minutes between sentences for Fraud to take some naps.

I ask again, what does this all this have to do with Vietnam? Military experience? John doesn't even know where the border of Pakistan is. He doesn't know who he is fighting unless a Democrat, even a turn-coat Democrat, reminds him. How sad is that? Sarah Palin looks like the type to shock little kids privates for not believing in HER god. And anyone who says war is a gods plan is just plain nuts and needs to be locked away from society and most definitely away from our nuke arsenal.

McCain is so desperate he is trying to borrow/steal Obamas 'change' theme. Sorry but he's only fooling the foolish at this point. And what is McCains record for taking care of the troops? He didn't even show up to vote for the recent GI bill.

We complain old people can't even drive cars yet we are about to turn over the keys of our entire country to one.

[AZhitman]

Sarah Palin looks like the type to shock little kids privates for not believing in HER god.

Nice.

Actually, I think she called for the firing of that guy. And is now being criticized for it.

Let's stick to facts.

[S13_love]

He must think the American people are really stupid?

+ John McCain is a war hero

- On everything else

However he is part of our problem for the past eight years.

He is not part of the solution.

He is now calling for change? Where have we heard that before?

Perhaps it was Obama? YES, it was Obama!

The United States has a huge deficit due to mismanagement of two wars and he states he is going to cut taxes? Mr Obama states he is going to raise taxes on those earning over $250k a year. McCain has not mentioned cutting spending? He used poor judgement in the Keating Five scandal, poor judgement over the past eight years and he wants the American People to trust him? I can't!



If change is to come in Washington it is going to come from a complete change by a new Democratic administration.

John McCain just has too much baggage. Too many accidents and destroyed aircraft, An uncontrollable temper at times. Not what we need as CIC.

Overall speech I give it a D-

It was an admission of failure.

http://www.dailykos.com/

Telcoman

Modified by telcoman at 4:43 AM 9/5/2008

Agreed... although i havent heard too much about that scandal... oh well, i truly hope...that obama gets elected, mccain and bush pretty much agree on almost every issue, and since bush's approval rating is like about 30% at best, i truly don't see any logic in voting for mccain, for all those who vote for mccain...please just jump off a cliff or something

[Encryptshun]

^ Wow. Way to be constructive in your commentary. Thank you SO MUCH for that insight -- you have certainly changed my mind on a great many issues!

[telcoman]

We complain old people can't even drive cars yet we are about to turn over the keys of our entire country to one.

Excellent Reverend D

Best response I've seen

If there is a NICO reward for best response to a post I'll vote for you

I'm sure glad I havent reached that point yet

Telcoman

[ishkabibble]

The Repubs in Congress have proven that they are up to the challenge of obstructing anything from getting done.....

FTFY

[Cold_Zero]

Agreed... although i havent heard too much about that scandal... oh well, i truly hope...that obama gets elected, mccain and bush pretty much agree on almost every issue, and since bush's approval rating is like about 30% at best, i truly don't see any logic in voting for mccain, for all those who vote for mccain...please just jump off a cliff or something

And yet the Congress under Democratic Leadership has a lower approval rating than George W. Bush. Soooo, what does that say about Barack Obama and Joe Biden for voting lock step with a very unpopular Congress?

[Cold_Zero]

Sarah Palin looks like the type to shock little kids privates for not believing in HER god. And anyone who says war is a gods plan is just plain nuts and needs to be locked away from society and most definitely away from our nuke arsenal.

We complain old people can't even drive cars yet we are about to turn over the keys of our entire country to one.

Rev,Those are the two most asinine and ignorant comments I have heard in a long time.

[ishkabibble]

The Congress can't get anything done. No supermajority, and the Republicans have set a new record for number of filibusters and holds on bills with this Congress.

So, to a logical person, it means nothing.

[Jimefam]

And yet the Congress under Democratic Leadership has a lower approval rating than George W. Bush. Soooo, what does that say about Barack Obama and Joe Biden for voting lock step with a very unpopular Congress?

First rule of politics, everyone hates congress but love their congressman.

[rn79870]

We need to change to a parliamentary system of government. In that system, member of "congress" is a member of the political party in power and remains in power as long as his/her party does. No arguments about congress not cooperating with themselves in that case.

[Cold_Zero]

First rule of politics, everyone hates congress but love their congressman.

Apparently it has also spread to view of the President of the United States.bud

[Cold_Zero]

The Congress can't get anything done. No supermajority, and the Republicans have set a new record for number of filibusters and holds on bills with this Congress.

So, to a logical person, it means nothing.

Call me illogical, but I prefer that a Congress that can't get anything done (with out having to work reeeealllyyyy hard together to get America's business done). It helps keep extremism by both sides at bay.bud

[ishkabibble]

Nah, that's perfectly good logic. Especially with so many jokers in this Congress (on both sides!).

[szh]

We complain old people can't even drive cars yet we are about to turn over the keys of our entire country to one.

And what does driving a car have to do with running the country? As POTUS, McCain is not going to be somebody's chauffeur!

And, how do you know that McCain cannot drive a car? Not that I know whether he can or cannot (all I know is that it has nothing to do with the job of being the President), I just want to understand your source.

Z

[ishkabibble]

He drives himself around because he's "Maverick" like that. He even calls his passenger "Goose" and calls going through the drive-through a "flyby"

Just kidding, the SS has been chauffeuring him around for a long time. I was about 20 feet from him when he was rushed out of a stereotypical blacked-out government SUV and into Fox News. Surprised the hell out of me.

[Cold_Zero]

Nah, that's perfectly good logic. Especially with so many jokers in this Congress (on both sides!).

Agreed. Which is why I found it fascinating that McCain talked about combating pork barrel spending and corruption on both sides of the aisle.

[rn79870]

Barbara Boxer responds to McCain's speech.

Last night at the Republican National Convention, John McCain used the word "fight" more than 40 times in his speech.

In the 16 years that we have served together in the Senate, I have seen John McCain fight.

I have seen him fight against raising the federal minimum wage 14 times.

I have seen him fight against making sure that women earn equal pay for equal work.

I have seen him fight against a women's right to choose so consistently that he received a zero percent vote rating from pro-choice organizations.

I have seen him fight against helping families gain access to birth control.

I have seen him fight against Social Security, even going so far as to call its current funding system "an absolute disgrace."

And I saw him fight against the new GI Bill of Rights until it became politically untenable for him to do so.

John McCain voted with President Bush 95 percent of the time in 2007 and 100 percent of the time in 2008 -- that's no maverick.

We do have two real fighters for change in this election -- their names are Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

[szh]

Barbara Boxer

Now, that is a strong endorsement ... NOT! She is only supporting the party line, as always!

Given the low level of respect that I have for both her and Feinstein, I consider this even more of a ringing support for McCain-Palin!

Thanks, Boxer and Feinstein!

Z

[audtatious]

Quoting Barbera Boxter is like quoting Pelosi.

[szh]

Quoting Barbera Boxter is like quoting Pelosi.

FWIW, I have been opposed to Boxer and Feinstein for a long, long time ... well before this election came along.

As that old saw goes: "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

If they endorse Obama, good for them! I certainly will not follow them down that path.

Z