MAX OUT the Rogues Backup lights (Mini headlamps?)

[Elton Noway]

My wife and I live on a heavily wooded lot and the drive way is a little over 200 feet long. Backing down it at night has always been a challenge over the years but its even more difficult now with our new Rogue and the 20% tint on the back window. Have never been interested in installing light along the driveway. Beside mod'ing the Rogue is more fun

Just wondering if any one has some good suggestions for maximizing the light output from the Rogues backup lights.

Thanks to the most excellent thread by Leo2005 (How to install LED kit in tail lights(finally got my project done) I've got a good handle on how to proceed. zerothread/326090

I believe the easiest fix would be to swap out the 921 bulb with some high power LED's. I found these... on V-Led that have an output of 200lm! ... but... I'd sure hate to blow $50 if it won't deliver the desired results (or not be a good choice for the Rogues backup light assembly. The other concern (maybe no big deal) is only 4 of the lamps fire forward. http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior....html

The other option would be to cut out the reflector and modify it in some way... i.e., to accept a mini reflector bulb ... or Hella maybe? My goal is to light up behind the vehicle like a set of small headlights. Sorry , not interested in bolting any aftermarket KC style lamps to the bumper. Just looking for something I can incorporate into the current backup light assembly. Ideally they will light up the drive way like a 747 coming in for a landing but not cause the lamp assembly to melt like a chocolate bar on a hot summer day.
Modified by Elton Noway at 2:51 PM 5/29/2009

[Leo2005]

Thanks Elton but I was going to say: "Wow. $50?" That's expensive. Must be like mini hid. If you planning to install them please add picture to thread how do they look. Maybe I'll upgrade mine but they're bright enough.

[Roguemeister]

My wife and I live on a heavily wooded lot and the drive way is a little over 200 feet long. Backing down it at night has always been a challenge over the years but its even more difficult now with our new Rogue and the 20% tint on the back window. Have never been interested in installing light along the driveway. Beside mod'ing the Rogue is more fun

Just wondering if any one has some good suggestions for maximizing the light output from the Rogues backup lights.

Thanks to the most excellent thread by Leo2005 (How to install LED kit in tail lights(finally got my project done) I've got a good handle on how to proceed. zerothread/326090

I believe the easiest fix would be to swap out the 921 bulb with some high power LED's. I found these... on V-Led that have an output of 200lm! ... but... I'd sure hate to blow $50 if it won't deliver the desired results (or not be a good choice for the Rogues backup light assembly. The other concern (maybe no big deal) is only 4 of the lamps fire forward. http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior....html

The other option would be to cut out the reflector and modify it in some way... i.e., to accept a mini reflector bulb ... or Hella maybe? My goal is to light up behind the vehicle like a set of small headlights. Sorry , not interested in bolting any aftermarket KC style lamps to the bumper. Just looking for something I can incorporate into the current backup light assembly. Ideally they will light up the drive way like a 747 coming in for a landing but not cause the lamp assembly to melt like a chocolate bar on a hot summer day.

Modified by Elton Noway at 2:51 PM 5/29/2009

Would those LED's you provided the link to be "plug and play" for the Rogue?

[Elton Noway]

Would those LED's you provided the link to be "plug and play" for the Rogue?

Yes. Based on the other link in my orignal post (that takes you to Leo's thread) ... Leo actually did all the research. He states:

First of all I would like to say that tail lights have bulbs 7440 and 7443 but 7443 will perfectly work on 7440. Back up lights have 921 bulbs

The V-LED bulbs I linked to in my bost (V-LED HID WHITE 14 M-SMT 5W HIGH POWER BULBS) are indeed 12V 921 bulbs. No modifications... no wiring... etc. NET: Plug and Play

[Roguemeister]

Thanks. Not sure if I want to spring $50 for them, but if somebody does get them, please post back here how they are.

Thanks

[Pescakl1]

Can I give you some bad news Elton? They would probably not do what you hope them to do. 921 bulbs are indicating bulbs, not lighting bulbs, therefore there are not much offer on powerful alternatives (and they are small bulbs which does not help).

As much as I like the V-leds shop, I am kinda disappointed how they advertised their products: 200 lumens from these bulbs? No WAY!!!What they do: They use 10 1/2W SMT chips which each theoretically delivers 20 lumens = 5 W bulb delivering 200 lumens.But that does not work that way:- First, they underrate their chip to be sure they won't burn fast (they are not voltage regulated so voltage moves from 12.8 to 14.4 depending of the use in the car), so they aim to about 12V to be sure, and doing that each will not deliver 20 lumens.- Secondly, lumens don't add up, they mix. Putting two 20 lumens chips won't give 40 lumens, but more in the 30+ range.- Thirdly, lumens are just part of the equation when you are talking LEDs as they are focused light, not radiant. And the problem with LEDs in car housing is they don't use it efficiently as it is not designed for them in mind.

So to try to solve your problem: You need high power LEDs (ideally 3W) and since you want to see and not just being seen, most of the light should be straight light (no use of the reflector in the housing, it is just waste).

For your information, I have just been offered a 3W flashlight and it is quite impressive.

With that in mind, I searched on my usual websites and Ebay, and found some offers which would be better than the V-LEDs offer, but still probably not what you need:

- First, you have this one, http://www.superbrightleds.com...8.htm, 4 more SMT chips and all aimed straight, just check to see if it will fit in the housing. It is a good alternative but far from being ideal (they are M-SMT chips). Another thing, they are 8500K chip so it is a blueish white (and personally, I don't like it).

- Second one is http://www.ledlight.com/t15-we....aspx. It is a single 3W chip, so quite powerful and straight aimed. It is probably underrated as the others, but should give quite a nice output. Should be in the 6000-7000K range so white with a little bit of blue.

On Ebay, right now, you just have 1 W 921 bulb, not yet 3W ones.

Hope this helps.

[Leo2005]

hey Elton. Did you order these lights yet? VLEDs have led license plate. It seems to be a better solution. I think I'll order one for myself: http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior....html

[Elton Noway]

hey Elton. Did you order these lights yet? VLEDs have led license plate. It seems to be a better solution. I think I'll order one for myself:http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior....html

Hi Leo, Well... I didn't order the V-Led 200lm at $50! Once I read the great reply from Pescakl1 I wasn't willing to gamble $50. As it turns out... after much research, too many dollars spent, and much experimentation I've come to the conclusion that LEDs look cool and might be very bright to look at, but while they may appear more vibrant they don't disperse a lot of light when compared to halogens.

As to my original backup light question, I was hoping to accomplish something along the lines of a mini headlamp. I even looked into retrofitting a small projector lamp. Ideally it would be great if I could find something like this... but so far it only exists in my dreams:(Photoshopped)

The biggest obstacle, as you know, is the back up light lamp assembly is quite small so there is limited room to work with. That said I'm also playing with the idea of cutting off the 921 receptacle and replacing it with a 3156 style receptacle so I can install 50 Watt Halogen!

Yep.. the lighted license plate frame looks promising. I checked it out a couple weeks ago. I'm also thinking about getting it. While LEDs don’t throw light like I would have hoped, I gotta admit this photo showing the light output at 75 feet is pretty impressive!

I guess I could even take it a step further and attach it with Lighted License Plate "Bolts"
Modified by Elton Noway at 3:00 PM 6/19/2009

[Leo2005]

led bolts not gonna do anything but a small dot especially for backup reason. For visual look in this state it is illegal unless it's red.

[Elton Noway]

led bolts not gonna do anything but a small dot especially for backup reason. For visual look in this state it is illegal unless it's red.

Well, if I took it so far as to install the lighted bolts... I'd wire them into the circuit with the lighted license plate frame so they would only illuminate in conjunction with the LED's in the frame while in reverse.

Actually when it threw the lighted bolts into the mix I was just being sarcastic. It's doubtful they would offer any value-add considering the amount of light the license plate frame would be throwing off. Anyway in looking at the installation instructions for the VLed lighted frame it appears to "cover" the mounting bolts so I guess its a moot point.

At this point in the game I'm still leaning towards modification. (replacing the 921 bulb socket with one of these 3156/7 sockets)...so I can install a 50W Halogen, and then cross my fingers the housing doesn't melt. Actually maybe even a bigger concern is frying the wiring harness if they were left on for an extended period of time. Any engineers in this forum that can give a definitive answer? If my math is correct... even though the 921 and 3156 bulbs are both 12V bulbs, the current draw will be 4 times as great by switching a the 50W bulb.
Modified by Elton Noway at 11:43 AM 6/20/2009

[Pescakl1]

Elton, I may have found something for you: MODEL SL4800 from http://www.americansuperlite.com/back-up-lamps.cfmThey are for trucks and they are DOT approved.

BUT... as I don't use my car right now, you will have to check if they fit (but I remembered that I measure about 10 cm diameter for the back up lights housings).I don't know the prices either, so you will have to contact them.The guy who found these (on another forum) calculated that you should have about 480 lumens as output as they are 3rd generation high power OSRAM LEDs.To install them, you will have to dremel out the reflector part of the housing and JB weld the LEDs lamp in place of the reflector.

Best way is to contact them explaining what you want to do, to see if they believe it could work (are they voltage regulated? To which voltage? What is the real output level? etc...).

Keep us informed.

[Leo2005]

mmmm. I might do the retrofit too after seeing these lights.

[Elton Noway]

Elton, I may have found something for you: MODEL SL4800 from http://www.americansuperlite.com/back-up-lamps.cfmThey are for trucks and they are DOT approved.

BUT... as I don't use my car right now, you will have to check if they fit (but I remembered that I measure about 10 cm diameter for the back up lights housings).I don't know the prices either, so you will have to contact them.The guy who found these (on another forum) calculated that you should have about 480 lumens as output as they are 3rd generation high power OSRAM LEDs.

Hi Pescakl1... thanks for the info link. At first I was thinking these might be just what the doctor ordered... but... I on further research I don't think taking a Dremel to my back up light assembly will be enough... the babies are just over 4 inches in diameter!

The other consideration (based on this article I found) it appears the SL4800 was originally released back in 2004. While not that long ago, LED technology has grown by leaps and bounds since then. In the press release it advertised as producing 25 lumens of light at 350mA using 6 LED lamps.http://findarticles.com/p/arti...83822/

During my research I also found another SuperLite product identified as the SL4000 (same 4.3" diameter) but it has 15 LEDs! Unfortunately it was recalled in 2005 for failing to me Federal Motor Vehicle requirements. http://www.customtrucksupplies.com.au/ASL.htm

The last fly in the ointment is its been over a week and AmericanSuperLite has failed to respond to my email... and... Superlites website on-line catalog was last updated in 2006. Probably not a good sign.

The search continues!
Modified by Elton Noway at 3:00 PM 7/14/2009

[Elton Noway]

At this point in the game I'm still leaning towards modification. (replacing the 921 bulb socket with one of these 3156/7 sockets)...so I can install a 50W Halogen, and then cross my fingers the housing doesn't melt. Actually maybe even a bigger concern is frying the wiring harness if they were left on for an extended period of time. Any engineers in this forum that can give a definitive answer? If my math is correct... even though the 921 and 3156 bulbs are both 12V bulbs, the current draw will be 4 times as great by switching a the 50W bulb.

Sorry for bumping my own post... but I never got any feedback from the electricians in this forum as to whether or not they thought the Rogues wiring harness could handle the extra current draw if I were to make this socket mod and install 50W Halogen back up lamps. I still think this may be the best solution.

Regardless of the lumen output claims made by various LED suppliers, while they may be BRIGHT to look at... they sure don't "throw" out much light.

[philipa_240sx]

Elton,

To answer your first question, the circuit is fused for 10A so the wiring is rated for the same.

IMHO, I would not attempt what you are planning for 2 reasons:

1) The reverse lamp circuit has a single 10A fuse. This limits the circuit to 120W. In reality you cannot put 120W or even 110W (as you propose) worth of bulbs on a 10A fuse as the startup current for a cold bulb will be much higher and the fuse will blow. This is why the 55W headlamp bulbs are fused at 10A each, twice their normal operating current of 5A.

2) The stock backup lamp is 18W, a 50W halogen bulb uses 3 times the power and burns 1.5 times hotter than the stock bulb. Any guess what is going to happen to the plastic housing/reflector? I would keep the fire extinguisher handy!

I would go back to the drawing board and consider either:

A) Use a slightly larger incandescent bulb like the #7440 21W used for the rear turn signal or the #1157 27W used for the front turn signals.

B) Use an auxiliary light mounted to the rear bumper... not very aesthetically pleasing though.

C) Look for a smaller halogen bulb in the 18-25W range?