Manditory TPMS is bull

[smash209]

Why is the stupid Tire Pressure Monitoring System now required by law "for saftey" but ABS which is much more useful and increases safety not required? I can check tire pressure with a gauge very easily... I cannot however, predict when someone will make a left-turn across two-lanes because someone waved them on!

[asoomal]

Tires can suddenly lose pressure, such as a nail. It'll alert the driver, and reduce the chances of blowouts on the freeway.

ABS is annoying.

[BusyBadger]

Why is the stupid Tire Pressure Monitoring System now required by law "for saftey" but ABS which is much more useful and increases safety not required?

Lowest common denominator. I've been behind more than my fair share of cars that had visibly low tires. The problem is that that's awfully under-inflated, a tire could low by 5-10 PSI and not show any visible signs. Additionally, tire pressure decreases by about 1 pound per square inch for every 10-degree drop in outside air temperature - I'm willing to bet there are plenty of drivers that have checked their PSI on a fine Indian Summer day only to have the tires be super low when the sun goes down and/or a cold front moves in.

But by far the biggest benefit of TPMS is warning a driver in advance that something is very wrong with a tire before it makes the vehicle harder to control.

I can check tire pressure with a gauge very easily.

How often to do you do it? And are doing it with this:



or this:

I cannot however, predict when someone will make a left-turn across two-lanes because someone waved them on!

Sounds like what you really need to be upset at are drivers not using turn signals. They've been original equipment on cars for years.

[Bubba1]

Why is the stupid Tire Pressure Monitoring System now required by law "for saftey" but ABS which is much more useful and increases safety not required? I can check tire pressure with a gauge very easily... I cannot however, predict when someone will make a left-turn across two-lanes because someone waved them on!

TPMS is only required on new car purchases. Since the average American rarely checks their air pressure, having an early warning system, like an low oil or low fuel idiot light, is a nice little feature to alert you that something's wrong. If you happen to have a TPMS on your car and it offends you THAT much, just disconnect it. I happen to like my TPMS (which displays pressures on each tire) as it enables me to watch tire pressures during track sessions.

As far as complaining about drivers crossing lanes without signals, you obviously don't live in the northeast. In northern NJ and NY, drivers rarely use turn signals, as that broadcasts intentions, thus giving other drivers an opportunity to block you from gaining the spot in front of them. In Boston, drivers go one step more and use the OPPOSITE turn signal in order fake out the other drivers. You think I'm joking, but that's actually how it is. Everyone is time crazy up here, and who leads the pack wins. If you can't tolerate the "assertive" way we drive up here, then get off the dang sidewalk

[Rex]

It's informative without being intrusive. And it is a safety feature that is most beneficial when "at speed".

I could understand complaints about TPMS, if they prevented you from operating the vehicle if the tires pressure was below the minimum. Now that would be a problem for any one using (winter) wheels with no TPMS.

Background: As a result of Run Flat tires and their ability to sustain ~50 miles and non-highway speedswith little to no feedback to the vehicle operator, there had to be a way to let the driver know if the tire had become punctured (but not a blow out) while driving. That's part of why we have TPMS.

I realized it's being used more wide spread than this, but that was one of the initial reasons.

[themadscientist]

The simple answer, government. It's a wide-ranging multi-tiered idea that covers a plethora of sucky ideas.

My wife's car has a tire pressure monitoring system, she calls it Mike.

[sx moneypit]

The simple answer, government. It's a wide-ranging multi-tiered idea that covers a plethora of sucky ideas.

My wife's car has a tire pressure monitoring system, she calls it Mike.

[hannibal]

^^ Good one!

It's informative without being intrusive. And it is a safety feature that is most beneficial when "at speed".

I could understand complaints about TPMS, if they prevented you from operating the vehicle if the tires pressure was below the minimum. Now that would be a problem for any one using (winter) wheels with no TPMS.

Background: As a result of Run Flat tires and their ability to sustain ~50 miles and non-highway speedswith little to no feedback to the vehicle operator, there had to be a way to let the driver know if the tire had become punctured (but not a blow out) while driving. That's part of why we have TPMS.

I realized it's being used more wide spread than this, but that was one of the initial reasons.

You nailed it!

[Rev_D21]

You can thank the idiots in their Ford Explorers for not checking the pressures on their Firestone tires for TPMS. And until we take full responsibility for our actions we will continue to be treated like kids by our government.

[Dattebayo]

ABS which is much more useful and increases safety not required?

I'm surprised no one said anything about this.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's informative without being intrusive. And it is a safety feature that is most beneficial when "at speed".

Ideally.

It also adds cost for the consumer, produces false positives, is unreliable, complicates tire changes and often disagrees with tire rotations. It is also a poorly realized technology, with no industry standard being pursued.

In the end, what matters is this:
It's not necessary.
It adds cost.

The discussion should not get any further than that. If the feds want me to have TPMS on my car, they can f*** pay for it. And I don't mean with my tax money.
I do not drive my car with improperly inflated tires.
I am not a moron.
I am sick of being treated like I am.

ABS which is much more useful and increases safety not required?

I'm surprised no one said anything about this.

Probably because not everyone agrees that ABS is more useful or incrases safety. There are plenty of examples where ABS is NOT a good thing (icy roads, for instance, or snowy roads with good siped winter tires). ABS also encourages bad driving habits because it teaches people that they don't need to modulate their brakes themselves. Just push really hard and the car will do it all for you.
ABS is another tech that adds cost for me, the consumer, and doesn't do anything useful for me. I've owned only two cars with ABS and on one of them I pulled the damn ABS fuse to disable the system because it scared the HELL out of me in Utah's icy, snowy winters. The other one I tolerate it in, because it's modern and electronicified and I have no choice. Every other car I've had has done just fine in very diverse poor-traction conditions without ABS.
I honestly can't believe there's not a manual off-switch for ABS in cars like there is for traction control (and yes, I realize not all cars allow you to fully disable TCS but that's a whole 'nother rant *cough diamlerchryslercough*).

Both systems can feel free to take a long walk off a short pier. They're both crutches for inept drivers and they both add hassle, cost, and complexity to my cars.

[Dattebayo]

There are plenty of examples where ABS is NOT a good thing

That's more or less what I was getting at. I remove ABS from all my cars if and when they have it...

[MinisterofDOOM]

There are plenty of examples where ABS is NOT a good thing

That's more or less what I was getting at. I remove ABS from all my cars if and when they have it...

Oh. Right. I'm a dope. I completely misunderstood you.

[sbird1]

[smash209]

Wow... didn't expect to get this much flak... I'll take it though... everyone makes good points.

My fustration with TPMS is that everyone I know who has it has problems with it, the sensors go bad... they cost $90+ each, the batteries only last a few years... and yes I do have winter tires w/o sensors so my light is on for half the year.

If you happen to have a TPMS on your car and it offends you THAT much, just disconnect it.

Who is able to disable it? You can't, short of pulling the dash apart to unsolder the led, and its illegal to do so. We are lucky we don't drive Corvette's, because if your car has the tire light on, it also goes into "limp mode"! Also my gripe had nothing to do with turn signals.

Yes I agree ABS can be annoying and should have a disable switch. Especially for the winter where plowing up snow in front of the tires is more helpful to stopping compared to cycling the ABS. In a panic situation, however, its a natural reaction to mash the brake pedal and freeze. You can argue that with minimal training, most people can learn how to drive in a panic situation... but weren't we just saying that TPMS is in effect because people are dumb?

How about daytime running lights? Required for several years, and now not?

BTW there are still people that argue that seatbelts do not make driving safer. Airbags I won't even comment.

[Bubba1]

I'm not sure why people have such a problem with ABS, assuming it doesn't kick in too early, which in most cases it doesn't. On a race track ABS comes in handy to test how slick the conditions. If it engages quickly testbraking on a straight, the grip is probably not gonna be there when its time to slow down for a corner, so you adjust your driving. IMHO, if you're on a public road and ABS keeps kicking in, it's much more likely the driver, not the ABS, and you need to either brake earlier or learn threshold braking.

As far as TPMS. I have 3 vehicles with it, and I don't recall any of them going into limp mode when the warnings trigger.

As far as daytime running lights, the reason you don't see them that much because it's (1) its voluntary, and (2) I believe NHTSA did a study and concluded that in cars they did not significantly reduce the chances of crashing as compared to not having it.

[MinisterofDOOM]

How about the time the ABS in my dad's Trailblazer (a truck, mind you) kept going wacko and randomly pulsing the front left brake while at speed (on the freeway among other places)? Why? Got coal dust in the ABS sensor. I guess it's a good thing no one takes their trucks off-road anymore, because a little dirt seems like a quick trip to malfunction land. That's a pretty cool failure to have for a "feature" whose benefits are debatable. Nothing like being jerked into the next lane by YET ANOTHER electronic babysitter. A less experienced driver might have wrecked. Just what I need, little old Miss Camry having her ABS go haywire and driving into me.

Or the time the ABS on my Q45 decided that snow on ice was confusing and thus simply refused to brake hard enough to stop?

Or how about the ten million times I've stopped safely in snow and ice and rain and any combination of the above in my Maxima, my Ranger, or my Q45 all without ABS?

That's why I hate ABS so much: only thing it's ever done for me is cause new problems I wouldn't have without it.

If I'm so inept I can't stop properly without ABS that's one thing. But when ABS steps in and fails FOR ME, when I'm completely capable, that's absolutely unacceptable.

[numbnuts240]

As far as daytime running lights, the reason you don't see them that much because it's (1) its voluntary, and (2) I believe NHTSA did a study and concluded that in cars they did not significantly reduce the chances of crashing as compared to not having it.

my biggest gripe with dtrl's is that it doesn't turn on your tail lights (at least in my mom's lancer). when it gets dark, they see their headlights on and forget to turn the switch to also turn on their tail lights. after constant reminding from me, my parents now switch on all their lights automatically, but i still see plenty of people on the road who don't realize they still have to turn on their headlight switch when it gets dark.

[Bubba1]

How about the time the ABS in my dad's Trailblazer (a truck, mind you) kept going wacko and randomly pulsing the front left brake while at speed (on the freeway among other places)? Why? Got coal dust in the ABS sensor. I guess it's a good thing no one takes their trucks off-road anymore, because a little dirt seems like a quick trip to malfunction land. That's a pretty cool failure to have for a "feature" whose benefits are debatable. Nothing like being jerked into the next lane by YET ANOTHER electronic babysitter. A less experienced driver might have wrecked. Just what I need, little old Miss Camry having her ABS go haywire and driving into me.

Or the time the ABS on my Q45 decided that snow on ice was confusing and thus simply refused to brake hard enough to stop?

Or how about the ten million times I've stopped safely in snow and ice and rain and any combination of the above in my Maxima, my Ranger, or my Q45 all without ABS?

That's why I hate ABS so much: only thing it's ever done for me is cause new problems I wouldn't have without it.

If I'm so inept I can't stop properly without ABS that's one thing. But when ABS steps in and fails FOR ME, when I'm completely capable, that's absolutely unacceptable.

Keep in mind, ABS systems have been evolving/improving since the 80's/90's, It seems to me the odds of an ABS system failing, like your dad's trailblazer, are pretty slim, epecially if it's a newer model. Clearly no system is perfect, but I don't think you can ignore how few ABS failures there have been relative to the tens of millions of vehicles that have it. And since you're an experienced driver and learned to drive without ABS, then I would think if you were among the very few that experience an ABS failure, and it suddenly becomes a non-ABS system, that it should be pretty much a non-issue as you already know what to do.

I personally could care less if a car I drive has or doesn't have ABS. I simply adjust my driving style, but I feel better if my wife or son's cars have ABS as it's easier for them in a tricky situation.