Major US Shift On Climate Change Policy.....it has begun.....

[C-Kwik]

...and here come the arrows.

If I point them out, the MMGW zealots will just say, "Oh, that's nothing", and then I gotta put a boot in someone's a$$.

But, since you asked, my lawnmower example was a perfect one. My leaf blower? Yeah, I can't use it either. Fireplace I was going to have put in? No need - it's been effectively outlawed as well. Let's not forget the exorbitant fees I pay to emissions test my cars EVERY year, plus the time taken out of my schedule... Before long, I won't be able to buy cheap filament light bulbs... let's see, what else is coming....

So, what was that question again?

As I said, there are going to be indirect impacts. But they aren't trying to say, you can't mow your lawn, use a leaf blower (yeah, dragging around an electric cord sucks but it still works) or use a fireplace (gas is still allowed is it not?).

As for emissions tests, it isn't so bad, especially for most people. You tend to be the exception as you have many cars, but what was that you say about catering to the few? Nevertheless, you still have the right to own all these cars right?

Filament lightbulbs are indeed likely to go away, but they aren't taking away your ability to use light. The bulbs are a bit pricier but cost less per lumen of output to run AND will last longer. And months ago at Costco, I picked up a pack of 10 for 99 cents. Last I recall, it was still only like $3.99 per pack.

None of these represent a major change in your life. Frankly, its all petty. Ideally, I would love to see a world where we had an endless supply of cheap energy that had no impact on the environment. But there is a huge difference between reality and ideals.

Here' another thought: Since China is a FAR larger contributor to greenhouse gases than the US, why not start big? I mean, their citizens aren't free anyway, so a little extra government intrusion won't bother them at all.

Hmmmm... Gets ya thinkin', don't it?

What do you think all these international meetings about climate change are for? But in order for us to have pull, we need to lead by example. Given the power we have as a voice in our own government, we have more say in what can get done. The people of China do not. In essence, we have the power to try and do something about it. And there are many that would rather shoose not to. What does that say about us? About free will? Yep...certainly does get me thinking...

I couldn't possibly agree more. There are tons of greener and cheaper ways to power your house. You can damn near live off the grid if you own your house. Regardless, point is we waste tons of power and the actual "grid" is old and full of leaks.

These are great steps to take to reduce individual use and consequently, the national use (hell, even global use). But a reduction is not synonymous with solution. It contributes to the solution, certainly. But there is no single solution for this problem. It will require a comprehensive solution involving many smaller solutions that contribute to and in some cases may increase the effectiveness of other solutions. And this is purely from an energy standpoint without even having to mention MMGW.

[AZhitman]

As I said, there are going to be indirect impacts. But they aren't trying to say, you can't mow your lawn, use a leaf blower (yeah, dragging around an electric cord sucks but it still works) or use a fireplace (gas is still allowed is it not?).

Yes, they are. If my old 2-cycle is my only mower, and it breaks, and they outlaw repairs, then yes - in effect, they're saying exactly that... No leaf blowers allowed (electric or gas), and WTF is a gas fireplace? Am I supposed to retrofit my house now, at great expense? Really?

None of those are INDIRECT.

As for emissions tests, it isn't so bad, especially for most people. You tend to be the exception as you have many cars, but what was that you say about catering to the few? Nevertheless, you still have the right to own all these cars right?

Not the point. $26 per test, plus time off work, plus sitting in a line for sometimes hours at a time?

That impacts a single mom more than me... blue-collar guys more than me... the working poor more than me.

"It isn't so bad" is the beginning of a slippery slope.

None of these represent a major change in your life. Frankly, its all petty.

Thanks, Dictator Kim. Fortunately, that's not a determination you (or our government) should be making for me, a free and independent American citizen.

[pallnet]

Welcome to socialism. Obama is putting the building blocks in place to completely over ride our system of government and ways of making laws. He’s making it to where he can pass strict regulations through one form or another if the laws he pushing will not pass…..This is his plan, lets face the fact that he gets a damn hard-on when he shakes hands with any one of the dictators from around the world, he wants to be just like them and dictate to a country of his own.This is not the way the American law system is supposed to be. He’s collapsing our economy and pushing laws and regulations on us (the American patriots) that we do not want. From what I have been reading, hearing and seeing lately, a revolution is brewing in it’s mildest form (protesting in many ways) but I would venture to say that if things keep progressing in the wrong direction for this country a mild revolution will most likely progress as well. I honestly feel that this president’s head is so large that he will not back down from his goal of being a dictator. He will most likely keep pushing all the way up to the point of resistance on a large scale from the American people, at this point he will call on the UN to invade the USA in an attempt to control the American people. So if you shoot then practice shooting blue targets. If you don't shoot then you better get with it because farmers slaughter sheep but they have to hunt wolves....Am I crazy? Hell yeah I am but do the math (not government math) on this one, I’m sure that I’m right on the money. Our government is now controlled by the real wingnuts, we need to take it back, if not for us then for our children. The USA has never been like the rest of the world but this president has it in his mind to make the USA just like everywhere else on the planet.

[smockers83]

Here' another thought: Since China is a FAR larger contributor to greenhouse gases than the US, why not start big? I mean, their citizens aren't free anyway, so a little extra government intrusion won't bother them at all.

It would also be far more cheaper than to do it in the US. China has very lax rules vis a vis the US, so for them to institute pollution regulations would be more cost efficient than trying to reduce the already restricted US market.

[audtatious]

First off I am going to offer my disclaimer that I am not a climate scientist by any means and that I am merely going to offer speculative points to show that we can't look at data in such a simple fashion and expect to draw accurate conclusions.

Seems the IPCC scientists don't understand enough either as they keep drawing inaccurate conclusions.

[RobPaulson]

The personal attacks aren't needed. Calling an opposing argument idiotic is just a cop out. And you didn't give any evidence to the contrary.

It's not a personal attack if you are just wrong. You read a wiki quote and are trying to tell me an engineer doesn't study his subject matter? You are just trolling single word definitions to try to come out on top. Kinda familiar and expected form of arguing if u ask me.

When I was referring to myself as an engineer, I only said it to show my understanding of the scientific process and how appalling the falsification of data is to me.

However, my buddies who are environmental engineers understand the physics and chemistry behind these 'theories' being proposed, and there are holes all over MMGW. And after years of advanced chemistry, physics, CLIMATE SCIENCE, and geological studies, they do not 'study' it? Audt said it right the first time, you have to know how something works before you can fix it. If anything, the engineers have a better understanding of the science itself because they are the ones who have to come up with new and unique ways to deal with it / fix it.

[AZhitman]

It would also be far more cheaper than to do it in the US. China has very lax rules vis a vis the US, so for them to institute pollution regulations would be more cost efficient than trying to reduce the already restricted US market.

Good point.. I hadn't thought of that. Adding it to my arsenal.