MAF Delete options

[Chaos the Xile]

I was curious as to what options I have for MAF Deletion, on the RB25 (S1) I am currently running a Q45 MAF, and a Power FC. I was told that you have to have a special version of Power FC to use a MAP sensor on a RB25. I am looking to get a max of 600WHP out of the motor, and don't think that a MAF set-up will cut it anymore... Any options?

[ISUJinX]

Megasquirt it!

Then you can choose MAF, MAP or Alpha n. I'm a big fan of Alpha n because it only needs to take throttle position and RPM into account. Its problem is you essentially have to know the flow map before you install it - and then change it for every mod you do. Its essentially a lookup table based off of the two inputs.

You could always go ITBs. IIRC, I read somewhere that the GSXR1000 TBs are big enough for huge HP... but I don't know for sure. and you need 1.5 sets of them har har. Still leaves you with MAF setup, but the inputs should be able to handle big boost and the increased HP just fine. I'd love to do an ITB setup, but I lack funding.

[Chaos the Xile]

I was gonna do a ITB setup, I was close to bidding on a RB26 Intake with ITBs attached on ebay last month, but I didn't cause I wasn't too sure on what needed to be changed as far as a tune, for the Power FC.Megasquirt? I'd like to see more info on those...?

[Kansei240sx]

D-jetro

[Chaos the Xile]

Yeah I was thinking the samething, but don't I need a "certian" type or version of the Power FC to run D-Jetro on the RB25? If not, links to where I can buy one...

[integra7]

They don't make a D-Jetro version for the RB25DET.

[Carl H]

for the last time there is not djetro version pfc for the rb25 or rb20, sr20det and rb26dett ONLY!besides map blows, whats wrong with the maf?

[Sil240]

for the last time there is not djetro version pfc for the rb25 or rb20, sr20det and rb26dett ONLY!besides map blows, whats wrong with the maf?

Why do you say MAP blows??Is the L-jetro more accurate??I'd figure it was better especially for a Turbo car because it calculates Mani Pressure and Outside Air temp and Mani Air temp and figures out how much Fuel to stick in there. Right???

[Chaos the Xile]

for the last time there is not djetro version pfc for the rb25 or rb20, sr20det and rb26dett ONLY!besides map blows, whats wrong with the maf?

Ok now thats cleared up, I have seen very powerful MAF set-ups, such as teh Stage6 TT Ford GT making 1100WHP on stock MAF. But I have never seen high HP RB25's with Power FC or MAF. Its ususally a 3 Bar MAP sensor. So for research purpose only, does anybody think that the PWR FC + Q45 MAF is capable of handling a little over 600WHP? If not what other ECU options do I have that will allow me to run a MAF-less set-up, to create my power?

[the_momo]

search megasquirt on yahoo. i would give you a link, but there are a lot of vendors that handle them, and i havent found any specific one that has the info i am looking for (for the rb). i had considered megasquirt and using a crank trigger wheel with external coils on my rb20, but i decided to sell it insted. i have a friend in my car club who has built/tuned numerous megasquirts for neon applications i can have him get in contact with you if you are interested in general info about them. creating the mapping and such (wiring, pinning,ect) is essentially the same. and there are a LOT of high hp cars (and a few airplanes) running megasquirt and i believe they all use a map sensor.

this is what i am going to use in my s13 (built 350sbc custom intake dual tb and twin turbo maybe staged injection, we'll see.) let me know.

[Chaos the Xile]

MAP sensors don't blow Carl, but to each is their own i suppose.the momo my e-mail address is [email protected] me about the megasquirt tuning. What about base maps though? Can you download them or are the maps all built from scratch?

[rb240det]

Ok now thats cleared up, I have seen very powerful MAF set-ups, such as teh Stage6 TT Ford GT making 1100WHP on stock MAF. But I have never seen high HP RB25's with Power FC or MAF. Its ususally a 3 Bar MAP sensor. So for research purpose only, does anybody think that the PWR FC + Q45 MAF is capable of handling a little over 600WHP? If not what other ECU options do I have that will allow me to run a MAF-less set-up, to create my power?

Not to jack the thread or anything, but did you ever get the dyno sheet from your last dyno session?

[Chaos the Xile]

No I didn't. My tuner's laptop had a software problem. So I won't have any new ones until the end of the month when I go back. The issue was the #1, and 5 Spark plugs got fouled all the way out. The issue is fixed and It's running fine. But now I have an intake leak and the car boggs down when you give it gas off a launch.

But back to the megasquirts tho...

[Carl H]

generaly speaking equiping a map sensor to a car that was originaly maf is never a good idea imho.why? the car has to be retuned everyime the seasons change because map sensors are dependent on the ambient air temps to give some what of an accurate reading.map = manifold absoulte pressure, where maf = mass air flow.map can only see pressure and once target pressure has been reached resolution flatlines where as maf measures how much air actualy goes into the motor regardless of blowthru or drawthru setups.maf is constantly sensing load and changing the tune to suit, which results in a more accurate tune.now if the maf sensor is hella restrictive aka toyota supra then yes going to map is going to net power gains as well as be easier to work with but on a nissan generaly speaking the mafs ARE NOT restrictive thus do not pose a hinderance to making power.from what it sounds like your tuner sucks and doesnt know how to properly tune a maf equiped car...or you are following blind faith that a MAP setup is OH so much better than a properly tuned maf setup.a pfc properly tuned with a q45 maf should see nearly 700hp on a good tune, you may need to rescale the maf table but it can be done.

[ISUJinX]

Thie biggest problem with the stock MAF setups is that the ECU doesn't read or know how to interpret higher numbers. I don't have any firsthand experience with the PFC.. but I do have a N/A KA24E running on megasquirt . And I love just beng able to swap out engines in about an hour - because the harness is so simple, I just made 2.

[sil_eightyRPS13]

just use a RB26 power FC de-Jetro...if u have aftermarket cams u can use the VVT anyways thats the route im goin, as i currently have a rb25 power FC but i want that HKS purple horn in my engine bay!!!!

lol

[Chaos the Xile]

If you say so, I guess I will stick to the current set-up after I get the GReddy Intake, and my Cams in place, along with some other minor parts... we'll see what kinda power she makes! See I was under the mistaken impression that MAFs are not better than MAPs when it comes to big HP, due to there "Restrictive Readouts" But if the PWR FC and Q45 MAF, can register over 700, then I'm gonna stick with it.

[Carl H]

for people going all out balls to the wall power map offers a TINY advantage over maf but if the maf can read the air then why change?another thing to think about is the fact that the apexi drag car RUNS maf sensors and produces 1khp.if you find single maf doesnt produce enough resolution change over to a rb26 pfc and run dual mafs.

[the_momo]

i was actually just thinking about what you said and i wonder would that actually make a difference? cause i know the rb26 uses 2 mafs since obviously there are two turbos, but when its going into one, does it actually split the airflow reading? or would it /could it unbalanced. if that were the case, i could see an impossible to tune engine. im going to take a wile guess and say the rb26 ecu averages the readings between the two mafs and uses that value.

i think also the debate of maf over map is kind of usless in essence. they are applicable to different cars in different ways. its hard to see the gains of honda engines with map sensors and the reliability of those, but then look at nissans with mafs. really, its just boils down to use what you have and what you know. i prefer map because of the simplicity, but i cant say personally about a map on a nissan car (i use the factory map to tune my srt, easiest thing in the world btw) because ive never personally compared two setups with just differing sensors. im sure there are advantages and disadvantaes to both, but really, people have been using mafs for nissans almost exclusively, so ill go with it being the better choice for nissans.

[Carl H]

the 26 even tho it uses 2 maf sensors it takes the 2 signals and averages them, works well...then theroreticaly the dual mafs should read 2x the hp of one maf, for instance rb20 maf can read 300hp worth of air so duals should be able to read 600hp, z32 520per thus 1040 dual.

[the_momo]

the only problem i can see with that is you would absolutely need to use the rb26 pfc, and yay repinning. but from what i see its not tooo much different. i bet that quite a few people might end up going this route.