Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

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themadscientist
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Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:31 pm

So, I suck.

Let me elaborate.

I claim to love cars and I really do, more than people in most cases, but my behavior towards them and my care of them makes me a partner whose "love" is as destructive and toxic as that stripper you went out with. You remember, "Sparkles," the one that stole stuff from you, banged your friends and left you with a venereal disease? Yeah, I always hurt the cars I love. I beat them, I neglect them, they break, I lose interest and they go to an undeserved grave. So, again, I suck.

It's the ADD, really. I always have grand plans and good intentions, but they never come about. I get in over my head and s*** just doesn't get done. The first step in correcting a problem is recognizing you have one. I have one and I want to break the cycle.

The reason I needed a new car and bought the BRZ is because all my "race cars" were broken. The reason I have not messed with the BRZ is because, as I said, I suck. She's that "good girl" and I'm that former bad guy who doesn't want to hurt her like all my old flames. It's working well, not messing with it.

So, 12 step jargon out of the way, let's look at my latest victim, a 1994 R32 Skyline GT-R. This is how it looked when I got it.

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The previous owner had the engine done and the shop used a huge Holset turbo off a Volvo diesel truck. It was laggy, but when it came online hold the hell on! I like overkill and lag is not as bad to me as it is to others. Maybe I like the foreplay or something, but it's not a dealbreaker.

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This is what that turbo is supposed to be attached to.

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The guy told me to overhaul it. Hell, he gave me the kit to do it. I kept putting it off, though, and one night, THUD! I was hoping I popped an intercooler pipe or something, but no, it was done.

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I could have just put a fresh turbo on it and got back on the road, but as I started to get into it I didn't like the way it was done. Stuff like this.

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This connects to that connects to that and before I knew it I had really tore the car apart. That old MO had repeated itself. I was overwhelmed, busy with life and I kept procrastinating. The car has sat in my yard for, honestly, I don't remember how long and I don't even want to calculate it; I already feel like a serial killer.

OK, what can I do? Well, what do we already know. Oh yeah, I suck. Yeah, it's time for me to get painfully honest with myself, suck up my pride and hand the car to someone else while there is still a chance to save it. Here's how it looks now.

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I enlisted a local shop, one of the few whose work, I wouldn't go so far as to say I trust; let's just say they wouldn't f*** up on purpose and that's actually sort of rare around here. They are down the street from the house and after looking at the car confirmed the shell wasn't too bad and that after they got caught up they could fix the car.


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themadscientist
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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:38 pm

The original plan was to drop a freshly overhauled, but basically OE R34 engine in with just cams, a head gasket and the turbo kit I had already bought. That fell through, we would have to use my engine which, I hear, was put together from three engines.

This concerned me so I adjusted the build plan. if the block and head castings were usable, great, but the internals would need to be addressed. When we were talking about a refreshed R34 engine I had confidence that the parts would still be in usable condition, but now, with 25 year old bits and pieces, no way. I want new internals and quality machine work.

I found a nice price on a new N1 crank, Carrillo I-beam rods and CP forged pistons and placed my order. One vendor for the crank, another for the rods and pistons. Both of those vendors didn't have the parts in stock like their sites said and neither could confirm when they would be in stock. I was pissed, the orders were canceled and I still needed a rotating assembly.

I had been lusting after a 2.8 stroker kit from down under, but I didn't want to drop that much coin, but with this new turn of events, suddenly, the kit actually had real utility. They had it on the shelf ready to ship. Order placed.

http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-strok ... stoker-kit

I was not enamored with a stroker as I already don't like the rod angles on the RB with its short deck, but it was this or nothing. I like this kit for several reasons.

1. This kit does make up the stroke by moving the pin up, though, so it's better than others in that respect.
2. I get the I-beam rods I prefer over H-beam, which I feel is an inferior design.
3. The shop is used to using CP pistons and the domes on the standard ones they use are very similar to the CPs in this kit.
4. The crank is fully counterweighted, much better than comparable items with only eight weights.
5. Spool makes a spline drive oil pump kit as well which solves another RB problem, broken oil pumps AND they had facility to do the machine work and mount it before shipping to me.

Great customer service, fast shipping, but the boxes could be built better; my crank got pretty smacked up, but overall I'm pleased. I will have to ensure it wasn't tweaked getting bashed around on the way to me.

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RB engines have their oil pumps driven normally by two flats on the crank, like this. Top is an early crank with a narrow drive section, below is the later version with a better, wider section which helps but doesn't cure the problem.

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There is a great deal of play between the crank and the driven gear and it rattles after a fashion and places all the stress on the edges of the flats. This vibration can actually cause the pump's backing plate to come loose an to round off the driven sections of the gear like stripping a nut with an open ended wrench which eventually shatters the gear like this, blows the pump and then the engine.

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This is the Achilles heel of this engine and kills them quite frequently. Since my build got awfully serious, this would not stand. Many try to fix the problem by getting hardened gears, but the fundamental problem is still there, it just makes failure less likely, but the failure profile remains. Nope, that's not good enough. I had Spool slap one of thier spline drive setups on my crank. The spline system spreads the load 360 degrees and there is very little lash so it should completely eliminate this problem.

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Spool also sells the hardened gears to go into the Nissan pump. I went with the N1 pump body and gear wave profile for better flow.

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And that gear will slide over this new collar.

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My focus on oil control is resolute and there will be some more steps taken to be detailed in later postings.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:43 pm

After two months the pickup date arrived. The shop is close so they opted to strap tow it over there.

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After a few more days wait, the engine is out. It's pretty crusty. I hope the castings are usable, but I am worried. This engine is a mystery and there's no telling what we will find when they rip it open.

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Oh my, there it is. I have come to hate this triple plate clutch. This is another built from multiple donors and I called it the on/off switch. There is no discernible friction zone and it leaves you with two choices, stall the engine or bark the tires. I have a new twin destined to replace it. As I won't be drag racing it, this should be adequate.

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Now the car goes to the body shop to get the engine bay repaired and repainted.

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themadscientist
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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:10 pm

Time for the p0rn gallery. This seems to be shaping up to be a NFG build not so much because I am trying to become the alpha GT-R around here, I've seen the apex predators around here; the best I could target is toughest hyena walking among the lions. No, it's just I have always done the work myself and to a tight budget so I had to lower expectations, settle for "good enough" solutions and watch for those things coming apart. I have enough funding to solve problems now with top shelf new parts and have better mechanics doing the work so that's what I'm going to do. Screw it, turn into the skid and go "weeeeee!"

First, the more pedestrian stuff. New Nismo motor mounts. The mounts in the car are probably sourced from a pile of used parts that were in the corner of the shop when they dropped the motor in, no thanks.

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I would have gone with a Haltech if the car had a ROM-tuned OE ECU, but it already has a Power FC D-Jetro (no air flow meters needed) and while not on the level of the Haltech IMO it is still an effective solution. This, plus the fact that the shop has a ton of keyboard time on the PFC and almost none on the Haltech leads me to want to stick with that to make it easier on them to meet my expectations. I'm a picky customer so better to make it easier for them. Aren't I nice?

I did decide to increase functionality by picking up the boost control kit for the PFC so they can tune the boost levels right in the ECU and not through one more gizmo competing for space on what will be a busy dashboard. The wiring harness is old and crusty, though so I got with Wiring Specialties (great service) for a full replacement harness including coil pack and transmission harness. Again, eliminate all potential failure points and make life a little easier for the shop.

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Oil control is probably the greatest focus I have on the engine build. I will not cut any corners in trying to make it bulletproof. I ran right up to the edge of picking up a dry sump system, but determined that a properly set up wet system with all the known shortcomings addressed would do the job very well. Parts are still coming, namely a Trust extended sump kit to add oil pan capacity, but here is what I have so far.

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First, oil slosh. The pan has a bit of a baffle, but it's very shallow which is why I will have the sump extension welded on. There are a few aftermarket oil pan baffles out there to keep the oil pickup constantly submerged in a pool of engine blood, but I determined the Nismo to be the best. I prefer the more rugged swing doors over the rubber ones seen on other types. Secondly, there are a series of crank scrapers to slough oil off the spinning crank.

Unfortunately, this item was selected before my crank purchase fell through and I went with the stroker. I may have trouble. The extra swing on the crank IS going to nail those scrapers. At best I will be fitting and trimming for a while to adjust the scrapers to the crank throws, at worst, the rotating assembly will encroach so badly I won't be able to use it. If the latter occurs I may need to go with the lesser Tomei unit.

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Another oiling issue is blowby. RB26s cough up oil through the valve cover breathers like frat boys puke up cheap beer. This has multiple causes, one of which is oil pooling in the head. Part of that is over delivery of oil to the head. This has led to Tomei selling a restricter to reduce oil to the head. Fine. It does make me wonder, though, why they would make that AND a pump that delivers a crap ton more oil than the OE unit, WTF? Either there is too much oil or there isn't, make up your mind. My theory is that oil delivery is fine if the pump doesn't explode (fixed that) and if the pump flows well (N1 pump profile, fixed that) and the pickup never sees air (fixed that). The restrictor will be used, but the oil pooling is still a problem. The drainage is not adequate. Solution, a big rear drain!

http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-oil-d ... rain-kit-2

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This kit removes the welsh plug from the rear of the head right where there is a big pool of oil sloshed back by G forces and trying desperately to drain down the casting passages at the same time crankcase pressure is trying to rush up. Gurgle gurgle. Better to dump down that big hose into the rear drain boss on the block. The kit is for twins so has the Y fitting, but I am going big single so the rear port can be dedicated to head drainage, Yaaa!

Now, another contributing factor to trademark RB26 blowby is the factory valve cover baffles. They allow oil to slosh back down the baffles, get stacked up and become a barrier to crankcase pressure trying to escape. The oil is thus pushed out by that pressure. Let's redesign the baffles to prevent that. Oh wait, Mines already did it. Take my money!

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Blowby should be, pretty much, eliminated, but there will always be some so I will be researching and picking up a catch can system. The shop wants to fab one up, but theirs and many others have t=no level indicators, filtration nor easy ways to drain or clean them so I will likely buy one. Radium has a sweet setup that makes my junk twitch.

http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-Cat ... S-C58.aspx

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:26 pm

COOLING! It's hot around here and I will not be babying this engine. I want to make sure it doesn't get heat stroke. Picking up on the oiling system, I tapped Greddy again for a nice, big, huge oil cooler kit. I also will never have to reach under the intake trying to get at that oil filter either with the remote mount boss. Happy.

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Keeping the oil cooler is one part of the equation, keeping the coolant flowing and shedding heat as efficiently as possible is the other. For the water pump, I am still on the fence. The N1 pump flows better in the upper range, but the stock one does better in traffic. I will be doing a lot of full throttle blasts, true, but I will probably be spending more time in stop and go traffic. Hmm, I'll probably go N1 and avoid possible cavitation problems which create air bubbles that collect in the intake crossover tube and cause trouble. So close to doing JUN cooling mod. So, my credit card walks into Greddy again....

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New Samco hoses to route the water flow AND the power steering fluid.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:39 pm

The engine needs its energy drink. I will leave injector and regulator selection up to the shop, but I have made sure whatever they go with will literally have a firehose feeding fuel to them. They have, as they have on most of my parts selections suggested good enough stuff that they normally use, granted, with good results, but I want to over engineer this and push the envelope. So far every part I have brought them has immediately caused them to see what I was on about, case in point the spline drive. They went from "N1 oil pump is good enough" to having mine copied and they are already recommending it to new customers. I suspect this fuel system will be the same.

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The journey starts with a 300LPH in tank pump which feeds into a 3.5 liter tank through the top of which will sit twin 350LPH external pumps. Overkill? Absolutely. Regrets? None.

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If you see gas prices rise, it's my fault.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:44 pm

Alright, the thing that got this snowball rolling, the turbo kit. When the turbo blew I bought a new one with the intention of just replacing the broken part. I should have picked up a the GTX4088R, but I had a moment of weakness and went bigger for no other reason than to do it. That's pretty dumb, kids, don't do that. I picked up a GT4094R.

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It's basically a 4088 turbine with a 4294 compressor. I was looking for something that would hum along at 600HP, but be able to go higher without breaking a sweat. The map on it looks like this.

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It was surprising how small it looked next to the Holset, a turbo it stomps on air flow. It looked downright compact in there!

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As I mocked it up, though, I encountered problems. First the manifold had been hacked up to mount the Holset because it had a different bolt pattern I didn't like that. I picked up another manifold from the builder that wasn't hacked up and had a GT v band wastegate, albeit a chi-com knockoff. That hurdled I moved on to discover the downpipe was a real cluster f*** and I didn't want to even try to reuse it. Now I had to have a new downpipe made. The GT was also water cooled which meant I needed to source all the fittings and hoses to facilitate that since the old turbo had no water passages. This is where my enthusiasm started tapering off and the long sleep began.

I had an epiphany and decided to buy a complete kit to make it as easy as possible to get the car back together. I went with the Greddy kit because it was so comprehensive and the T78 kit over the T88 kit for better response. "Response" on an old repackaged diesel turbo, funny huh? No, I had a plan. I had the kit upgraded to v band thinking I could then use it with the GT turbo. Nope. The V bands are not the same. I was a little discouraged, but while the T78 is not as advanced or powerful as the GT4094 it's still no pushover and could meet my goals so, screw it, I'll use it.

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It's crazy laggy, but not as bad as the T88 and I can't afford to beef up the drivetrain yet past the clutch so having a lazy turbo might help keep my transmission from grenading. I'm not feeling the plastic air filters and because I don't need air flow meters I can run one big filter so these will get shelved.

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My parts source is a great guy and when my kit was delayed to weld on the V bands he beat Greddy up about it. They threw in a surge tank free as a gomen-nasai. WHAT? That is not a cheap piece of hardware, AWESOME!

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I'm not sure what color I will paint the car when it gets a chance to go back into the body shop; it's just getting the engine bay done now. As such, the color of the engine was hard to pick. I decided on black since that will go with any color. I started with the valve covers, coil cover and front cover, but after seeing them I decided to coat that nice Greddy surge tank too. It' bad a** looking IMO.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby float_6969 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:18 am

This is more awesome than words. So all I can say is; :fap: :boink: :banana:

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby M35Squirrel » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:19 pm

The knowledge I have learned from this post is just invaluable. Bookmarked!

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby frapjap » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:23 am

Nice man!
How do you feel about letting the shop do the work? Is it liberating? Do you check in often? Do they mind?

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby WDRacing » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:22 am

Well done, sir! Talk about turning the corner.

That fuel pump setup though...you know things are f*** when even I make the "skunked beer face". I could rig something better than that with just parts I have lying on the floor.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:29 pm

frapjap wrote:Nice man!
How do you feel about letting the shop do the work? Is it liberating? Do you check in often? Do they mind?
I hate it. I do everything myself. This is not what I want. It is, however, what I need. I return to the addiction/group therapy metaphor. I hate to ask for help, but it's the only way to turn this around. In that way, while I hate to ask for help, I'm proud of myself for stuffing my pride and doing what I had to do.

I warned them when we started that I am not like any customer they have likely dealt with. I want what I want and I want it right. I will, for my part, let them have as much time a they need to get it right. They can bump my car back triage style to knock out quick s*** so they don't get backed up. I don't want them looking at the clock while they work on my car. It's going to be hard enough satisfying me without one of those reality show time limits. Similarly, unlike a lot of the Americans that drag rolling zombie Rs in with a trunkful of Ebay "tuning parts" and UpGarge salvage junk and expect them to resurrect that crap, my stuff is all top shelf and brand new. If they say they need it, they will have it and they will be pulling it out of a manufacturer's box, all the parts will be bagged and labeled and there will even be instructions!

So far, though, they haven't asked for anything. They have sort of spectated as i brought through a parade of bleeding edge (to them at least) parts that push the envelope. They sort of build the same engine for everyone and that's fine, their "big mac" is a tasty sandwich and still works, but why do the same old thing? They were resistant to the spline drive mod, but after looking at it I could see them thing "that actually makes sense." when I swung by their shop and said I ordered the stroker kit, drainback and spline drive kit with N1 pump they called me back later and asked if I could order them one. :rotfl After they got it they sent it to a machine shop to copy the design. My boss also has a GT-R and goes through this shop. He overheard them recommending a spline drive setup for another customer's build like they thought of it and he chuckled knowingly. He's another guy dragging them out of their comfort zone kicking and screaming. They are putting a Borg Warner turbo on his car right now and when they select injectors for my build, they will likely be the ones He, similarly, forced them to recognize were superior to what they had always used and probably smuggled in for them.

It is liberating in a way. I want things a certain way and I don't have the facility or the skill to achieve those results. Unfortunately, that means I stop by almost every day on the way home from work and I know even if they haven't already they soon will dread seeing me walk in the shop. Sorry guys, relationships require compromise, but I promise you we are going to have a little fun and love the baby we make. I'll try not to get irritated when you try to cut corners and you just enjoy that I can probably afford for you to do things right and that you have a guinea pig to test next gen gear you didn't know existed yesterday.

I went in yesterday and the engine was still sitting there. I could see them thinking "crap, he's going to be mad." I could see they were crazy busy, though, not sitting around so I wasn't mad. That's me being considerate. Now comes the taskmaster. I rolled up my sleeves, started rifling through their tool chest for wrenches and started taking my engine apart. This was partly to help them, partly so I can get those parts up for sale quicker and partly to say "get on the stick fellas or I'll just started messin with stuff and you don't want that." :poke:

I think I'll send these 720s out to get cleaned and flowed and use the best four on my DR30. I'm still terminating the harness on the Haltech I bought to run it. Having them work on the GT-R allows me some breathing room, mentally, to get in the head space where I want to work on cars again and the DR30 hasn't started in a couple of months. That can't stay like that.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:04 am

Started picking parts off the engine to put them up for sale. The 720s are heading off to get cleaned and flow checked. they are perfect for my DR30 refresh. The Greddy fuel rail is going.

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The manifold and the chi-com knockoff wastegate are still solid and somebody can use I'm sure.

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That rat bastard unsprung triple is going up for sale too. Dam, that thing was such a PITA to use. it still has a ton of meat left on the plates and it hasn't been overheated so somebody will want it.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby WDRacing » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:17 am

I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the torque at throttle tip in with that stroker kit. Will it greatly improve the smile factor while you're off boost...which will be almost all the time...lol.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:28 pm

That's the thing. The T78 is like George Foreman at his age. It takes a lot to make him get up, but when he does he's going to knock you out. I am going into this with the expectation that the car will suck in town, sluggish and slower off the light than a Prius. As this is purely meant to be an occasionally driven car, just a pure weapon that comes out on clear Saturday nights, I'm ok with that. I picture expressway work and second gear rolling starts on larger straight surface roads. I can't afford to beef up the drivetrain yet so trying to launch this thing sounds like a recipe for a shredded transmission and twisted drive shafts, halfshafts, blown OEM diffs, etc. The lazy character should help keep that stuff together.

This wasn't supposed to turn into this. It was going to be a N1 crank and fresh forged pistons and rods. When the 2.8 stroker was my only avenue to a fresh rotating assembly on time s*** got ridiculous. I didn't really want a stroker kit. I don't like the rod angles in that short RB26 block, but I didn't really have a choice. I'm sure it will help off-boost power, but I doubt it will turn a tug boat into a captain's launch. It doesn't help that when we were discussing head tuning, instead of the response kit from NAPREC I said "%$#@ that, I want the drag kit with the oversized valves and berylium seats." That's all about big flow and will probably kill any low end torque I picked up with the 2.8 kit. http://www.naprec.co.jp/product_en/hrk-rb26

If it's going to be a pig off the line, it better go to plaid like Spaceball One from there.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:20 am

Care packages from Greddy!

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I plan on long full throttle blasts and high speed cruising so I need extra oil capacity and they have me covered on all fronts starting with the extra capacity oil pan sump extension. The pan must be cut and this piece welded on.

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The front and rear diffs will also get larger capacity help keep them cool. I will be putting temperature meter sensors in the rear diff and transmission. If I see high temps I have some oil cooler kits I can hook up, but I'm not going to that trouble if it's not really needed. I'm expecting the extra capacity and cooling fins will keep all my gear oil at a comfortable temperature.

Front

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Rear

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby frapjap » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:23 am

Those covers look awesome. Good idea expanding the capacity to keep the fluid cool.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:54 am

So they popped the valve covers off and it looks like there are some Apexi cams in there, hmm. It was held on with ARP head studs too, nice. Metal head gasket in there, of course.

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Somebody did some intake port work too. They also cut out one quench pad and rounded off another. If I was doing a backyard rebuild myself I would consider myself lucky, scrub everything clean, check the deck and throw it back on, but I'm not. I find this to be a problem. I'm not going to use this head.

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The engine overall was super nasty. Sitting so long without running left a lot of scale in the water jacket and it's just disconcerting to look at. I'm not getting a warm fuzzy. Again, if i was shadetreeing this thing myself, scrub it it up and send it off to get the bores and deck checked. I'm not, though. I really don't want to use this block

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Uh-oh. It's small, but there is a crack between the water jacket and a head bolt hole. It's not big at all and if this was a DIY build I'd probably still use it, but this is a Some %$#@s given, but not very many build. This will not do. Part of me was like "f***!" but most of me was like "hey, I had to buy a new one, the old one was cracked."

Yep, full retard protocols have just been initiated. This thing truly will be a "new" engine. I have sent out the call for price quotes on new castings.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby WDRacing » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:37 am

I wouldn't use a head that has been halfass port matched. Bummer about the block though. That's just bad luck.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby float_6969 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:51 am

Damn, that sucks about the crappy head mods and cracked block. Keep us updated!

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:46 pm

I've been sensing the guy at the shop really wants to talk more in depth about the build and he only speaks a little English and I speak only a little more Japanese. I can see the frustration on his face and I want to know what's up so i swung by yesterday with my wife to help us communicate better. Her english is better than most Americans, lik 4 realz, YO! but she doesn't speak cars so she can say some of the mechanical terms, but she is not sure exactly what either of us is talking about in either English or Japanese. Boy, I got an earful from the guy. I think I should have benn laying down on a couch and paying him $200 an hour because he dropped the psychology on me. I walked into an intervention.

Basically, when we started this thing, the plan was a low mileage R34 engine, head gasket, cams, my T78 kit and a fuel system upgrade and tune on the Power FC. He was fully on board with that and so was I. Along the way, as I hit snags I vectored up sharply rather than around the trouble stepping the level of the build and the power up. While this eliminated the initial problem it caused new secondary problems of the extra things required to support that upgrade. An engine and a car are the sum of their parts and when one is insanely more capable than the others the others must work harder or be replaced. For an example I merely point to this still rather young thread to see how it snowballs.

He was really worried on several fronts. He was concerned I was spending a ton of money and the more money I spent the greater would be my disappointment if something went wrong. He has had a few customers com in and do everything in one shot like this, it went south and they were very angry. I asked if I was pushing him past his capability, but he said no, he could build it, but s*** happens. I know that's true, agreed.

He was concerned that such a failure would really piss me off, I would blame him and say bad things about the shop and not trust him to work on my stuff anymore. It was more than just that, I really could tell he was coming from the angle of having a happy customer and maintaining a relationship. Not the drug dealer looking for a comeback addict, but a business that you feel safe and confident dealing with so it's always your first choice when you need similar work again. I've been a customer service industry type manager for a long time, I get where he's coming from.

He asked why I wanted all this power anyway. I've already told him I'm not going drag racing with it and I don't have any interest in trying to muscle this heavy understeering juggernaut down a togue, but really just intend to lug around in it and occasionally blasting down the highway to stretch her legs out. I don't go out looking for trouble anymore and we have no track around here so I'm really asking him to sell me a sledgehammer to use In shingle laying business. Guilty, point you, guy.

The other reason was harder for me to swallow. He was afraid I was going to just straight up kill myself in this evil thing I was having him build. He explained that most of his customers started off with a stock car and stepped up through the power levels and grew in ability along with the car. The idea of my jumping out of the BRZ into a 700+HP death machine is giving him some sleepless nights. A guy put himself in a wheelchair in one of the cars they built and he doesn't like the idea of someone dying in one. A bit dramatic, but I can understand.

After I let him get all that off his chest he wrapped it up by saying that it's my car and if I'm still dead set on building this Kraken, he'll do it, but he really hopes I'll let him rip this engine the rest of the way down, inspect it further, if either the block or head is unworkable he'll snag another used one and build, essentially, what we planned at the beginning. He is happy to build the monster if this build bores me, but he really thinks it would be better to get back on the road with this first. He correctly pointed out where my car is deficient, um, which part, oh yeah, EVERYWHERE ELSE, and suggested after the car is back on the road going through the drivetrain, brakes, suspension etc before stepping up to the wrecking ball engine. I definitely agree that the whole rest of the car needs going through.

This put me a really conflicted state. I'm feeling a lot of emotions about this.

I'm a little angry and confrontational. I've driven powerful cars well. My RX7 was a guided missile. It only had 300hp, but it was very much ready to kill you if you didn't respect it. I drove it very much like I drove the GT-R before the turbo blew and would when it was fixed, with respect. Unfortunately, I know that as you go up in power s*** gets harder exponentially. 400hp doesn't feel twice as powerful as 200hp, it's more like three times. I drove a 400hp FC and my 300hp FC didn't feel 25% less deadly, it felt 50% less insane. With the intention of using the 4094R instead of the T78 and buying new block and head, I was going to set the HP figure higher. I pushed the juvenile alpha male confidence to the point of death wish BS down; he is absolutely right.

I'm actually relieved. The original plan is what I wanted. I'm sorry, it's more complicated than that. It's what 40 year old me wanted. What happened was when we started to encounter trouble, apparently, I had a seance and invoked the spirit of 20 year old me, he hijacked my credit card and internet connection and went insane. THAT GUY wanted 1000hp and top shelf everything, but he didn't have the money to do it. THIS GUY has the money to do it, but really isn't that pumped to do it. I want to drive my car again and have enough power where it scares me a little. I had that before the turbo popped. This build spun out of control quickly and I was not really happy about it, but just hung on so we could finish with the hope that I didn't regret it.

Thank you, sir, for the intervention. You gave me that little push I needed to rein this silliness in. I went to this shop because everyone I know who has dealt with them has been treated well and if anything went wrong it wasn't the shop's fault. I see what the kids bring in to them and expect them to work with; garbage in, garbage out and how the hell did they make it last that long?! It took a fair amount of balls and character to say what he said to a paying customer. I really appreciate and respect him for doing that.

The whole thing made me laugh because i have given very similar counsel to other people and not one of them listened and all of them regretted it. I pondered that for a moment.

Fine, let's turn down the crazy, you build what YOU think I need instead of what I think I want. If you are willing to put your name on it, I'll trust you. If you miss the mark, though, I'm going to beat you up about it, if that block starts blowing coolant you are going to have to look me in the eye when I limp it in. If that N1 pump that you say is perfectly fine shatters like they seem to with frequency we are going to have a heated discussion next to my busted car and I will be bringing a large takeout box of crow for you to chow down on. Conversely, if something breaks because I beat on it, winding the engine up to 9K causing the pump to blow for example, then that would be my fault and I won't be blaming you for it. If it scares me a little, though, and it stays together, I will absolutely give you all the credit for keeping me honest.

Some of this pile of uber parts is going to get put on the shelf. Some of it is more than I would gone with for the original, more realistic build, but they are already bought and buying a lesser part to align with the lower power build would be more waste. I'll have to use the huge intercooler and oil cooler for example, but the stroker kit gets put away. My hedge? I am still going to buy a new head and block, N1 if I can find it, and put them on the shelf next to the other stuff. If this current build misses the mark, I'll probably sell the car with it in there since it's got a few small issues and look for the cleanest, newest R32 I can and we are going to do it my way, 20 year old me can get that dirt bike he always wanted.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby float_6969 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:06 pm

It's amazing what age can give you. This looks like it's shaping up to be more than just a lesson in Karma. I can totally see where he's coming from with the "ramping it up" mantra as well. Although my little CA build is going to be completely set up to hit close to 500whp, I have a feeling it's going to be a while before I'm actually driving it around with that much power. I haven't driven this car in YEARS and we're going to have to get reacquainted before we start turning the wick up. I think it's a good idea for you as well.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby M35Squirrel » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:18 pm

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:27 pm

s***, yeah, that's pretty much what happened right there.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:18 pm

Yeah, welcome to the mind of a disturbed person. When I said I was fine with all that sedate s*** I was, of course, completely full of it. That enlightened mood lasted minutes, MINUTES! While it is true that if it had gone as planned with no snags I would have been happy, it didn't. It got messed up and derailed and I just don't like "good enough." If The R34 engine was a go all would have been fine and I would have been very happy. I have a huge pile of top-shelf stuff now, though, and that gear is not going on the shelf. Screw that noise.

So, me being the pretty vindictive emotional girl I am I got mad and I started to get adversarial. Sorry ladies, maybe YOU don't do this, but I guaran-godd-damned-tee you ALL your friends do. My inner monologue went kind of like this.

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Yup, it was childish and more than a little embarrassing, but at the core, under the dramatic BS it is true. I want what I want and f*** you if you don't agree. I got super insane there for a day. I mean, like, never mid; I want to move past that dumb crap I was thinking and saying, Cliff's notes, I'm going to get exactly what I want, period. Now, I am very excited about the idea of the car being back on the road in any form and this shop can do that no problem if I back off and let them do their cookie cutter milquetoast s***. Fine, do that, gimme my car back and I will start upgrading everything else while I have another engine built. That became the plan. Use all the old s***, replace what needs to be replaced and nothing more and finish the damned thing.

The dude is pretty astute. He got done cleaning the head and had me take a look. It cleaned up well. Two bad valve guides, nothing terrible. We discussed the plan and I told him to reuse the cams with fresh springs and do the Naprec Response kit. http://www.naprec.co.jp/product_en/hrk-rb26 The head needs the overhaul, fine, do that. We walk over to the block and I ask "are you using this" and kick it. He gets shifty about it and tries to justify it then admits we need another block and he mentions my 2.8 kit going into it. I stop him and remind him we are doing the weak-a** C+ trophy for participation same old pathetic s*** build and he isn't using my full counter forged 2.8 stroker kit for that, "good enough, remember?" Yeah, I said it like your girlfriend would too. I'll own it.

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He starts thinking about where he can get a decent used block to put this stock s*** into and I ask "do you want to use my brand new block?" He's shocked and asks me if I bought it and I just laughed. "Of course, I said I was going to." That block was going to be for the second engine. He's very excited about getting a new engine block to build. You starting to see what I'm doing?

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My a** isn't that epic, but I felt I owed you some candy for slogging through all my aimless insane rambling. You're welcome. Yeah, I tell him he can use the block, but he is going to have to take that good enough s*** and stuff it. He agrees. OK, now the b**** girl has what she wants and she's willing to have sex. I ask him if he still wants to use the cylinder head with the bad guides. He says yeah and explains the work that they will do and it will be great. I ask why he doesn't want to use the new cylinder head I ordered with the block. he gave me the Ralphie look like when his dad told him there was another box behind the desk.

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He actually waved at the old head like "f*** that thing." So, we are back on track, that crazy track that Indiana Jones rode down it Temple of Doom, sure, but that's MY track so it's great, weeee! I swung by Nissan yesterday to check on something and coincidentally the cylinder head is already here! I like the smell of new parts. Yes, yes, I frigging sniffed the thing. You don't? Something is wrong with you, then.

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I have heard how rough some of these things are coming out of the box and yeah, there is a lot of work to be done in there!

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby float_6969 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:54 am

LMFAO! This thread just keeps getting better.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby frapjap » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:54 am

Wow, those castings are rough!

Still, glad you're getting what you wanted in the first place.

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby themadscientist » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:23 pm

It's terrible. There are pronounced ledges where the valve seats were machined in, like 1mm high, a big step in the short side radius on every port, shrouded valves, that one water port that might need to be built up with devcon or a weld just so the gasket has something to sit one, the whole inside of the wtare passages is grainy as hell from the casting sand etc. I am a little underwhelmed by the quality or should I say lack thereof. Every RB26 head I have examined closely had been previously worked. If this is what it looked like before the builder started I have a greater respect for what they did. This is crap!

Contrast it with some CA18 heads and I have to wonder if this new stuff is just the result of people not giving a dam anymore. The CA18 stuff is, dare I say, precision compared to the RB26 stuff in this box. :tisk:

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby AZhitman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:18 pm

Mike, this is phenomenal.

You jacka$$, you lay low for a year or more, and then walk in with a codpiece full of epicness and slap it on the boardroom table. Bravo.

I can totally empathize with the 'out-of-control' build... My 'vert was that car, and the end result was (I realized later) what everyone ELSE dreamed of. But it didn't do any one thing perfectly (except destroy expensive 285mm tires). Lesson learned.

With a rebuild of Bex's RB S30 on the near horizon, I'm eager to apply some of what you're spittin' here to the build on her car.

Carry on, brother. I think this is just getting good. :)

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Re: Mad's GT-R overhaul ITT Mad buys back karma points

Postby BusyBadger » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:35 am

Chi-com, kraken, "codpiece full of epicness"...

This thread is worth it for the writing alone.


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