M56 lag on take off

[walt1227]

Noticed now a couple weeks after having my timing chains replaced that my car isn't pulling as hard and has a huge lag on take off or acceleration. I can floor it and it takes about 2 seconds or so before it responds. It also seems like it bottoms out and not getting much power past 5000 RPM. Before the timing chains replacement I barely had to touch the gas and it would fly. Now it takes its time and is not running full power like it was before. I also noticed that when I put the windows down I feel a lot of heat coming from the floor board while driving . That never happened before doing the timing chain. It goes away when I put the windows back up. However, I notice that when it is hot the car runs like crap and doesn't have much power. I took a 150 mile trip last weekend and the next morning had trouble out running a Toyota Tundra. The guy even noticed and said them cars should be faster than this big old truck. We went from a dig again on a green light and he pulled off the line faster than my car because of the lag but I pulled around him after it got up to 4500 or so RPM. Is there anyone else that has had this issue or can help me figure out what is going on?

[Ilya]

My car is sluggish too. Take it to the dealer. That's eventually my plan.

[marosari00]

Hmmm...I had the timing chains replaced. No difference..."like a bat out of hell."

[DredM56]

I had the opposite experience. Mine felt like yours before the timing chains feels much stronger down low now. I also had a similar situation to like 25mph a v6 camry was next to me if not in front by a bit. The other day though chirped them and made a focus st disappear like it was a corrola.

They also changed one of the solenoids for the variable valve timing they said it failed internally Maybe you're having the same issue and that is the cause of the lag. Not sure 100% they did both at same time.

[walt1227]

I had the opposite experience. Mine felt like yours before the timing chains feels much stronger down low now. I also had a similar situation to like 25mph a v6 camry was next to me if not in front by a bit. The other day though chirped them and made a focus st disappear like it was a corrola.

They also changed one of the solenoids for the variable valve timing they said it failed internally Maybe you're having the same issue and that is the cause of the lag. Not sure 100% they did both at same time.

I'm going to look over the warranty paper work to see what all they did. It was running a lot stronger when I first got it back from having the chains done. It just started doing this last week. It has started to spin the tires on take off now which it didn't do before doing the chains. I would rather have it like it was where it would not spin but zip on down the road. The transmission holds second gear a lot longer now as well.

[Snake31]

Walt1227,

I am curious if you ever got your car straightened out. Mine does the same thing on occasion and I would like to know how you ended up so that I can get mine fixed too. Three times now I have almost been t-boned by the car having a 2-3 second delay when trying to accelerate at approximately 50% throttle. It seems to me that when this happens the prick that is heading towards me is hell bent on teaching me a lesson about driving so slowly; even if it means killing me and my son. Pretty scary.

My chain of events:
-I bought my car in June 2016 w/ 15k on it. The car drives differently each time I drive it. I had two episodes of the 2-3 second delay. The engine makes the wooing sound upon cold start up. The car seems sluggish most of the time except for at full throttle. At full throttle there is always a cloud of gray smoke at the take off point.
-had the timing chain recall performed in August 2016, nothing could be found that would cause drivability issues
-took in to have transmission looked at; the car would shift after I came to a complete stop; TCM was reflashed at dealer; shifting at complete stop never occurred again, shifting still inconsistent and car sluggish in the 1500 to 3000 RPM range.
-changed oil with Castrol Edge full synthetic about 1200 miles later (Oil was very dirty); car felt more powerful for a few hundred miles
-Car is still sluggish and engine seems to make a strumming sound when it behaves sluggishly. I think the strumming sound was present all along but at this point I'm not sure
-I experienced another 2-3 second acceleration delay
-After cold start up, warming for 60 seconds or more, and driving at about 2000 rpm there is some ticking in the engine but this goes away after the third time accelerating after the cold start up
-November 2016 I had the intake decarb service performed at Infiniti dealer at about 18,500 miles; ECM and TCM were both updated again. Car runs better for a day or two and then it is back to its old self. Hwy MPG = 23.5, City MPG = 12-14
-Whooing sound on cold start up is still present. Strumming sound is still present.


My car seems to run the worst when the engine is cold. When I first got the car I was using Speedway premium gasoline about 70% of the time. After reading about the carbonization problems with GDI engines like this one I began using only Shell or BP premium. I am considering taking my car to a different dealer to see if they can get this figured out. I still have a powertrain warranty until April. Everyone seems to be really enjoying their M56's on here, but I have to say, this is the worst running car I've had ever since I started buying nice cars. I hope yours has gotten better for you.

[Ilya]

Welcome to the forum, Snake...much of what you're experiencing I also experience. At this point, it's the nature of the beast unfortunately. My car seems to be doing better currently since I left the intake scoop connected (but still using my HPS intake tubes). However, it's cold now as where when I was having the worst symptoms it was summer.

I use good Sunoco or Mobil fuel 95% of the time and use fuel cleaners every 3-5k or so.

The startup sound is normal...been discussed here. It's just the way the car works in a closed loop before it warms up enough and goes into an open loop.

The strumming sound I'm not sure of.

The ticking sound in the engine is likely pinging due to fuel that might have some moisture in it, etc. Not a huge concern but maybe try various gas stations for 2-3 times and see if it gets better or worse.

[Snake31]

Ilya,

Thank you for the fast response. I will try some different stations and see if that helps. I should mention that I only drive about 3 miles to work and rarely get on the highway. Perhaps this is the source of my moisture buildup. I do question the VVT system, because other folks have had problems and I've never really noticed such a power difference between oil changes before. Have you had any trouble with your VVT solenoids? Do you feel a power difference between oil changes?

[Ilya]

Ilya,

Thank you for the fast response. I will try some different stations and see if that helps. I should mention that I only drive about 3 miles to work and rarely get on the highway. Perhaps this is the source of my moisture buildup. I do question the VVT system, because other folks have had problems and I've never really noticed such a power difference between oil changes before. Have you had any trouble with your VVT solenoids? Do you feel a power difference between oil changes?

As far as power my car is rock steady. Well, other than when it tries to lag...lol. It's not like one day across the board is has 300hp and the next 420hp though, is what I meant to say.

And yes, that 3 mile commute is not good for the car to be honest. Do you warm it up before? If not, your car in all likelyhood is never getting close to operating temperature (regardless of needle on cluster) in that 3 miles.

[walt1227]

Snake,

My M56s is running like a freight train now. I did a ecu relearn and it fixed the limp or sluggish response when hitting the gas. It goes whenever I hit the gas now. The timing chains have had about 5k miles put on them since September because we travel a lot. It has gotten stronger and will spin the tires through all of 1st gear and some of 2nd gear. I have done a few mods to it so it isn't really stock anymore. But before doing the mods it was running just fine after the euc relearn procedure.

I understand what you mean about the gas. I used gas from a kangaroo gas station that I think has shell or bp gas. I noticed the car would run bad after using it. So I only put gas in it from cruizers which is exon and I use family fare who has bp as my second option. I did run a few tanks of 90 non ethanol just to see how it would do and it ran fine with maybe a 1-2 mpg increase. Think performance changed a little but not enough to say it made the car slower. It helps on the higher rpm versus 93 helping on the lower rpm range.

Lookup the euc relearn procedure on this forum maybe Ilya can point you directly to it? I think that may solve most of you throttle response issues. As for the engine noise I don't know what I can tell you about that. I would advise you check with another dealership since the one you have dealt with is not giving any good feedback. Make sure you tackle this stuff while under warranty and don't let up until you get the answers you need. Also look into seeing if you air filters are clogged up. I just bought my M from California back in July was delivered to me in August and I thought the dealership changed the air filters. Apparently they must have forgot about it cause those filters hadn't been changed in years. I replaced them last month when I put on my HPS intake hoses and did my CAI/RAI setup curiosity of Armybrat and his research.

I hope you get it fixed and that you and your son are safe from all harm on these dangerous highways. My money is on a euc relearn fixing the most of your problems. Also try a different gas station besides BP. I for some reason believe that Exon is the best gas for these cars. Also have your spark plugs and coilpacks checked to see if they might need to be replaced. My M shoots a little black smoke or dust when I wot it sometimes. I heard that is just from our cars running a little rich in air to fuel ratio. Just open it up more often to reduce that carbon build up. Don't give the dealership anymore money if they can't duplicate the issue.

Hopefully that euc relearn fixes the issues for you. Keep me posted on your results.

[Ilya]

I should really try the ECU relearn...but I assume that when I flash UpRev back and forth it's effectively the same thing? Would be curious lol.

And yes, the black smoke is normal under WOT. My car will do it more with Infiniti's stock A/F than it will when I'm UpRev'ed with an adjusted A/F.

[walt1227]

Also my car runs MUCH faster in cold weather. Heat soak was a major down fall in the summer causing it to be sluggish. It burns the tires with traction on and with it off it will always go side ways from a standstill. Scared me so bad the other night leaving Kroger and it was only half throttle. It will put a nasty butt whopping on a mustang and camaro. Haven't caught one of those RT scat pack chargers yet but with the little mods and upgraded timing chains I believe it will out run or keep up with that scat pack charger.

[Snake31]

I ordered some new pcv valves and air filters the other day from rock auto. I will install them and do a reset and provide feedback. My car has decent power but I have never been able to brake the tires loose. I rarely turn the vdc off though.

[Ilya]

Also my car runs MUCH faster in cold weather. Heat soak was a major down fall in the summer causing it to be sluggish. It burns the tires with traction on and with it off it will always go side ways from a standstill. Scared me so bad the other night leaving Kroger and it was only half throttle. It will put a nasty butt whopping on a mustang and camaro. Haven't caught one of those RT scat pack chargers yet but with the little mods and upgraded timing chains I believe it will out run or keep up with that scat pack charger.

*Sigh* Wish I had the RWD. I want to get tail happy!

And yes, colder weather is insane. Right now we are in the 20's at night and this thing RIPS a LOT better than it does when it's 85. The air is more dense which means there is more fuel being added to maintain ratio which means there is more boomshakalaka happening inside the motor and more flexing of smile muscles in my face.

[walt1227]

Snake, if it is running full power and you have RWD it should burn the tires with traction on. It won't be as strong or as long as without traction but it will do a burn out. My car wouldn't spin with or without traction control prior to having my timing chains replaced. I don't know how much power it gained but old girl is much faster and stronger.

Ilya ahhh that makes a lot of sense. Man I am loving it in this cold weather. Will be sad once it warms up and I might just park it till fall and winter time. We get 40-50 degree weather here daily and it hits the 20's at night. It hasn't hit the coldest points yet but when it does hit the 20-30 during the day and 10's at night I want to see how it does. I've been thinking about building my block up a few cubic inches and beefing up the transmission and rear end. If I could put some 3:73 gears in it with a shift kit (old school muscle coming out of me lol) I bet this thing would do some serious damage to a AMG benz. Not sure if those mods are possible but I'm sure the right shop can make it happen but I wonder if it can all be done for 10k. That's about all I would put into it. Oh and do some suspension work to make it hook better for street racing. Just some thoughts running through my mind lol. Better save all of that for the vette.

[DKASM37]

I should really try the ECU relearn...but I assume that when I flash UpRev back and forth it's effectively the same thing? Would be curious lol.

My tuner informed me that flashing Uprev back and forth between maps is essentially doing the ECU relearn procedure.

[Ilya]

I should really try the ECU relearn...but I assume that when I flash UpRev back and forth it's effectively the same thing? Would be curious lol.

My tuner informed me that flashing Uprev back and forth between maps is essentially doing the ECU relearn procedure.

Yeah I figured that would be the case.

[Snake31]

Walt,

I have the AWD model and turned off traction control and could not get the car to do a burn out last night. I tried it in manual mode and sport mode.

[Ilya]

Walt,

I have the AWD model and turned off traction control and could not get the car to do a burn out last night. I tried it in manual mode and sport mode.

It won't. Only way you'll break the tires loose is if you have the wheel full lock to the left or right and mash the throttle. And that'll only work if the ground is wet. Trust me, I've tried.

Only place I can slide the rear end is traffic circles lol.

[DredM56]

Ilya,

Thank you for the fast response. I will try some different stations and see if that helps. I should mention that I only drive about 3 miles to work and rarely get on the highway. Perhaps this is the source of my moisture buildup. I do question the VVT system, because other folks have had problems and I've never really noticed such a power difference between oil changes before. Have you had any trouble with your VVT solenoids? Do you feel a power difference between oil changes?

When I got my car back from the recall I had an issue with the car misfiring. The timing cover was cracked they replaced that and it still did it. Ended up being the VVT solenoid they replaced that and it was good for a minute then the timing cover was leaking again now it's perfect.

[DredM56]

Walt,

I have the AWD model and turned off traction control and could not get the car to do a burn out last night. I tried it in manual mode and sport mode.

It won't. Only way you'll break the tires loose is if you have the wheel full lock to the left or right and mash the throttle. And that'll only work if the ground is wet. Trust me, I've tried.

Only place I can slide the rear end is traffic circles lol.

I think your rims might be robbing you of the fun you want to have. I can get the a** out around almost any corner I want. In the dry from a stand still I spun em a bit on the dragstrip. Again in the dry at a stop lock the wheel and mash it and it will whip right around. In the wet even going straight it will light all 4 tires up.

Also a note about the AWD system. It kind of acts the opposite of what most people would expect. The more aggressive you drive the less active the AWD is. The more you crank the wheel and the more aggressive you drive it it stays more rwd biased.

[Ilya]

It won't. Only way you'll break the tires loose is if you have the wheel full lock to the left or right and mash the throttle. And that'll only work if the ground is wet. Trust me, I've tried.

Only place I can slide the rear end is traffic circles lol.

I think your rims might be robbing you of the fun you want to have. I can get the a** out around almost any corner I want. In the dry from a stand still I spun em a bit on the dragstrip. Again in the dry at a stop lock the wheel and mash it and it will whip right around. In the wet even going straight it will light all 4 tires up.

Also a note about the AWD system. It kind of acts the opposite of what most people would expect. The more aggressive you drive the less active the AWD is. The more you crank the wheel and the more aggressive you drive it it stays more rwd biased.

I forget, are you also AWD? You must have some demon possessed car hah.

Granted, soon as I got this car I had the dealer put my 19's from my black car on and now I'm on 20's...but I've never been able to anything that you suggest and I've tried it with VDC off, in sport mode, regular mode, with VDC on, cranked wheel, etc. It's insanely hard in this car to have any fun.

Now, in snow, that's another story. This thing will do donuts like it ain't nobodies business in the snow.

[ProverbPsalms]

I wanted to make a post also about this,

I did not get the timing chain recall done yet, but the car feels sluggish and laggy at times, I too have a very small delay, the car feels like it jumpy.

I see there is nothing set in stone to fix this? I am scared to do the recall as this might be worse

[DFW2011M56S]

I updated my ECU and TCU before I went to Uprev. To me it was a very noticeable inprovement. However that being said in HOT weather it stall falls on its face when the oil temps get to high.

[DFW2011M56S]

Also I have done two different intake system cleans using CRC Intake valve cleaner in the past 10k miles. I am tempted to pull the intake manifold one day soon and take a look at the valves. Google pictures of GDI intake valve carbon buildup on other direct injected engines that do not even have 50K on them are scary. BMW and Audi seem to have the worst deposit buildups.

[ArmedAviator]

AFAIK, only one VW engine had a very bad reputation for gunking up the intake valves. Any other GDI engine on the market has been pretty maintenance-free when it comes to the intake valve cleanliness. I suspect if you did remove the intake manifold, you won't find much.

I'm fairly confident that all of your complaints stem from the fact that these cars have an unfortunate lag inherit in the design, the V6 models included - VVEL. Why do you think these are the only two motors with the VVEL technology, and none of the new Q50 or Q60 offerings have it? Great concept, and very functional for that flat torque curve, but it has that computer-controlled, DC electric motor that has a finite response time that I feel prevents that rapid and raw response many of us seek.

[DFW2011M56S]

AFAIK, only one VW engine had a very bad reputation for gunking up the intake valves. Any other GDI engine on the market has been pretty maintenance-free when it comes to the intake valve cleanliness. I suspect if you did remove the intake manifold, you won't find much.

I'm fairly confident that all of your complaints stem from the fact that these cars have an unfortunate lag inherit in the design, the V6 models included - VVEL. Why do you think these are the only two motors with the VVEL technology, and none of the new Q50 or Q60 offerings have it? Great concept, and very functional for that flat torque curve, but it has that computer-controlled, DC electric motor that has a finite response time that I feel prevents that rapid and raw response many of us seek.

You say that but I just walked out into the shop and looked at a Juke engine we replaced under warranty when a timing chain failed. Intake valves and ports had a heavy carbon buildup on them.

As for your VVEL statement. The FX50 has it too and it has lightning fast response compared to our cars. Probably something to be learned in the Throttle / VVEL Mapping on that vehicle that could be applied to our cars.

[BlackCat81]

Also a note about the AWD system. It kind of acts the opposite of what most people would expect. The more aggressive you drive the less active the AWD is. The more you crank the wheel and the more aggressive you drive it it stays more rwd biased.

That's entirely incorrect. The more the car struggles for traction the more it transfers power to the front wheels.

[DredM56]

Also a note about the AWD system. It kind of acts the opposite of what most people would expect. The more aggressive you drive the less active the AWD is. The more you crank the wheel and the more aggressive you drive it it stays more rwd biased.

That's entirely incorrect. The more the car struggles for traction the more it transfers power to the front wheels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA

From the factory, the system is set up to provide slight oversteer in handling, and in fact the harder the car is cornered, the LESS the 4WD system engages the front wheels. This promotes the oversteer rather than understeer which is apparent in most AWD/4WD vehicles. The advantage to a more traditional ATTESA (Viscous LSD) system is response in hundredths of a second.

Some models fitted with the ATTESA E-TS system (such as the Nissan RS4 Stagea) have a "S" button on the dash. This will bypass the control system of the ATESSA E-TS computer and lock the transfer case into full 4WD. This is to be used at low speeds in snowy/icy conditions only as understeer is greatly increased in this mode.

I know that's wiki but they got the info from Nissan paperwork. I've seen it before but only found that in a quick check

[Ilya]

That's entirely incorrect. The more the car struggles for traction the more it transfers power to the front wheels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA

From the factory, the system is set up to provide slight oversteer in handling, and in fact the harder the car is cornered, the LESS the 4WD system engages the front wheels. This promotes the oversteer rather than understeer which is apparent in most AWD/4WD vehicles. The advantage to a more traditional ATTESA (Viscous LSD) system is response in hundredths of a second.

Some models fitted with the ATTESA E-TS system (such as the Nissan RS4 Stagea) have a "S" button on the dash. This will bypass the control system of the ATESSA E-TS computer and lock the transfer case into full 4WD. This is to be used at low speeds in snowy/icy conditions only as understeer is greatly increased in this mode.

I know that's wiki but they got the info from Nissan paperwork. I've seen it before but only found that in a quick check

Interesting. BlackCat is an Infiniti tech...in case people were wondering.