M45 vs 202k mile 91Q not good

[rahiel aziz]

the reason i am posting this as a new topic because this is just not another speeding story.somehow i did not feel good about the outcome of this race.apology to fellow members who owns M45.yesterday i was on S95 NJ trying to keep with the traffic doing between 70-80 mph i end up behined a car that looked like new camary from the back with temp.tag on the rear windshield.when i got little closer than i realize it was a grayish color M45.i had two other passengers with me so we were trying give our opinion how M45 looked from the back like or dislike.meanwhile traffic got cleared in front of M45 and it took off and i follow too.first i thought that guy had clear road in front of him thats why he took off but when i got little closer around 95mph he punched it again.my friend said guess he wants to play .there were two guys in the M45 and we were three.around 105mph we got slow traffic in front of usagain i was still following him.as soon we got cleared road M45 moved to middle lane and slowed down to about 80mph i slowed down too,moved to left lane.now we were side by at 80mph i put the q in the 3rd and looked at guy in M45 and beep the horn we both punched it at same time Q went to 2nd jumped forward and i imediatly put a car length on him by the time i was doing 110mph he was in my rearview mirror and we hit traffic again .as soon traffic got claered we did it again with the same results but M45 stayed on my back.third time we had pretty good length of road empty but i had one slow car in front of me and his lane empty so he took off by the time i changed my lane M45 was already few cars lenths ahead of me but again i cought up with him around 130mph and Q did this with ease and by 140mph he start getting smaller in my rearview mirror .than he realized he can't catch up so he slowed down and i did too.we slowed down to 60mph and again we were side by side now i am in middle lane i rolled down my window and his passanger did the same and i saw two sad looking faces, white guys in their early twenties.now i am trying to talk to them at 60mph i said what happened did u back off the driver shook his head side to side and start looking more sad .i felt kind of bad and yelled hey ur engine hasn't been broken in yet and thats my future car ,than they both smiled and waved their hands and we rolled up our windows.i start doing my 70-80mph stints again and lost them in the traffic.the race was probably less than 10 minutes and next 2 hours to my destination were very boring i turned off the radio and that same old question start popping in my head where were those 340 horses.i wished this race never had happend.

[don85259]

Having driven the M45 extensively, that was exactly my thought as well. Where are the 340 horses I was promised, compared to the 266 in my 98 Q45? Sure it felt a little stronger, but not 70 horses plus stronger. It felt more like 300 hp rather than 340.

[G8R45]

Ac ouple of things to consider. In your post you mentioned that it still had temp tags. I am sure if it was brand new that it is not broken in. It will definitly start running stronger when broken in. You also mentioned you guys were doing 105. Please be careful street racing. 3 people died in Atlanta this weekend in an accident while street racing. That is why I only run at the track.

[Eswift]

just make sure you have top quality tires, and have faith and familiarity with every critical system in your car.

[QShip]

Last week some kids were killed racing on 91S in CT. One was driving a 350 Z and the other car was a BMW.

The kids in the Z went through the windshield.

[Eswift]

well dont forget to fasten your seatbelts then

[PalmerWMD]

The tested numbers for the M45 are better than for even an early Q, both in 0-60 (5.7to6.1 vs best of 6.7 for early Q) and quarter mile (14.4to 14.7 vs best of 15.1 for early Q)Engine was clearly not broken in yet.

Fred...

[nlzmo400r]

yea, because 34o horses shouldve killed you Q up top, especially when u have 2o2k, and hey congrats no getting ur odometer up that high, still running strong eh??

[PalmerWMD]

Also Rahil, it was a good deed how you were all nice about it.Maybe those guys had lost another race before... and you said exactly the right thing.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

And few cars beat a well-running early Q at top end...

Fred...

[nlzmo400r]

why do u say early Q, are the later ones more sluggish on top end or something??

[PalmerWMD]

doesnt Charles ahve a Q w/ 444,000 miles and only a valve job done?

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

why do u say early Q, are the later ones more sluggish on top end or something??

The 1st and 2nd gen Q's (90-93+94-96) are known strong performers at hi end, this hold especially for the 90-93's.

There are few cars that can keep up with an early Q at top end.a combination of high redline and VVT conspire to do this.

Even so the M45 has laso real strong trap speeds in the quarter, lowest I sen measured by a magzine was 97 mph (same as my old 91 that was also a strong car) and 98 mph trap speeds are also published and I thinki seen a 99mph trap speed as well.One magazine has tested the M45 as fast as 5.7 0-60 (WRX time) and an owner even at 5.2 0-60 (admittedly with a Gtech which tend to run optimistic by a third second, even so it is clear that the M45 is a very fast car, )

Fred...

[Jberger]

Might have been aero related too. The Q is a low and slick car at speed.

All that ugly can't be good at high speed. . .

[Q45tech]

Well, it was a little more than that, many bearings and rings were replaced..........but no big hard parts....cams, rods, pistons and crank are as built.......think the oil pump was changed........along with some new valve stem seals..........before we knew that BG Quick Clean would clean the stems and let the VITON seals return to round.

The history is sketchy and the ultra master tech who did the work has been gone for 4 years............think it was done in 1996-1997? - when the car with 250k was purchased. The first miles were about 40k/year interstate by a real traveling saleman.

The car was sold new by Troncalli and maintained by the same master tech who came to T3 [and brought the customer with him so I heard]?

Sure hope so 444k...............gotta do some leak down testing on mine I keep dreaming of replacing the rods and bearings but I know in my heart it would be safer to just get a Japanese take out and swap when she finally blow one day because a rod will sure fly thru the block.

[Jeff Williams]

Great story! I have had my ='94 Q for almost a full year. In that year, I have put 49,000 miles on the ODO. I have had the car over 100, only 3 times. The lat time, was Sunday. I hit 120, before my wife asked "What are you doing?" The car felt like it was just stretching its legs.

There is a new track in Brimingham, called Barber's park. I understand that the owner started out building a shop, to restore his cars, and a museum, to hold his collection. He then decided to add a test track, then decided to make it a public facility. $7,500 a day rental.

Maybe we could go in together, with the Corvette club, and Porsche club, to rent the place for the day. All we need is 75 people, with $100.00 each.

Then we could really see what the new M45 can do.

[Q45tech]

You usually ignore HP except in 150 mph runs where a 40 HP difference might net 3,4, 5-6 mph higher speed- aerodynamics and tire rolling resistance being equal.

Remember CD must be multiplied by exposed area and tire width to determine the total drag.

The 333 vs 307 vs 292 lb/ft are peak numbers you must use calculus to find the average numbers and instaneous numbers in 0.01 second blocks.....what is the acceleration every hundred of a second.....ahead, even, back, ahead, even, back.

My 90 Q with ecu reprog exceeds the torque output of the newer Q/M engine in SOME parts of the upper rpm range [3500-5000]and the newer 5 speed transmission has wider gear in the 70-110 range.........so from 70 to 90/97mph a PROPER 90-93 Q COULD easily out accelerate an M or new 2003 Q.......falling behind [the new one] when the 2nd to 3rd old Q shift is required.

Easy to visualize when a new M has a 1.3 second lead to 60 yet only a 0.4 second lead in quarter mile.....its 0.9 slower from 60 to 90 mph........more or less........thats close to 80 feet.......4 car lengths........the newer transmission shifts faster by0.25 - 0.3 seconds but the gearing is about half of the difference.

It really disturbs new owners when I trick them into a mini race by flooring the old Q at 60 forcing them [their AT] to down shift then up shift at 73 and I'm gone till 90-95..........you just shut down the race at 85-95 they are none the wiser thinking you are prudent ..........boy are they confused..........not knowing they could make the distance up by 110 when they would have to shift and the old Q would begin to pull ahead again due to the 13% torque multiplication in the rear diff with both cars now in 1:1 gear.

Same with the G35c the 1.0 sec 0-60 falls to 0.5 sec by 97 mph.......always start the racing at 50-60 mph never from a standing start. USE the advantage you have.

[Jberger]

The new Barber's Motorsports Park is amazing. Jeff, if you haven't seen it in person, you honestly can't imagine how beautiful it is.

Here's the latest Autoweek article on the track:http://www.autoweek.com/search...ord=1

George spent about 60 million to build it. The track started out as a 3 million dollar test track for the motorcycle team he owns and evolved in to what is being called the finest road track in the world. Certainly the best in the USA.

The problem with reserving the track is trying to find an open date, it's booked for the next year already and is rapidly filling up for the year after next.

Porsche has already moved it's Porsche Driving Experiance over to the track and with mercedes down the road dates are hard to find.

If you are serious about trying to rent it out, we probably need to team up with some other local clubs (Miata, Mustang, etc). Let me know, I've got some good contacts over there.

[Jeff Williams]

Quote »If you are serious about trying to rent it out, we probably need to team up with some other local clubs (Miata, Mustang, etc). Let me know, I've got some good contacts over there[/quote]

I am serious about getting my car on it. I "tagged" along with the Prosche club, many years ago, to the motorcycle track in Talladega, wit an Acura Integra GTU car, that I was involved in, and got some seat time in my '92 Maxima, as well. I had a blast.

I have a friend in the "F" body club, that is trying to get some support, as well. He drives a '91 300ZX Turbo, but hangs with the "F" Bodys.

I say, lets go for it! I'll share track time wiht anyone.

Do you know the particulars to renting the place?

Should we start a new thread on renting a racetrack?

[Jberger]

The track at Talladega is much easier to rent. I been over there with the peachtree miata club at times.

I'll check on the Barber track and post when I have some info!

[Jeff Williams]

My friend Shawn, told me, Sunday, that Barber's is $1,500.00 per hour, which would be about right with a $7,500.00 per day cost.

The Talladega course is closer to Atlanta, and might bring in more NICO members. I have been on it once, and liked it.

If the Miata club doesn't mind, I would like to tag along, next time, as well.