M45 Push Button Start Issue

Forum for Infiniti M35 and M45, and Nissan Fuga owners.
druethe
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06 Infiniti M45

M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby druethe » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:58 pm

For a few months, I'll come out to my 06 M45 and press the push start and get *click*. Engine doesn't attempt to turn over at all, just a click. After a second, the seat will slide up, radio and a/c come on and then I can try again and it starts up. Many times it will start right up with no problems. It seems after its been warmed up, it doesn't have this issue.

Things I've tried
1)At first I thought it might be my key fob battery being low and it not reading the key fob. I changed the battery...still doing it.
2) I thought maybe the battery didn't have enough juice or CCA to start it up along with the radio, a/c, etc. Had battery CCA's and status checked and it all came out perfect.
3) I've tried to research similar issues on this board and elsewhere and I couldn't find anything quite like what I'm experiencing.

Anyone have any ideas of what this might be? Starter? Ignition switch? push button problems? Thanks for any help.


DeanM45
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby DeanM45 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Check the brake switch and/or the BCM (body control module). More than likely brake switch.

druethe
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06 Infiniti M45

Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby druethe » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:24 am

The Key Fob works fine, so not sure its the BCM. I'm not sure what you mean by the Brake switch? only thing I could find was a "brake light switch"? Im not sure how that could be related. If its something different, please let me know.

Anyone else experience this type of issue? Car has 118k on it by the way. No lights have come on and no other issues.

DeanM45
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby DeanM45 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:35 am

Correct, the brake light switch. You must step on the brake for the car to start.

druethe
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06 Infiniti M45

Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby druethe » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:50 am

Even though it starts most of the time, but doesnt some of the time, you think the brake light switch might be on the fritz?

DeanM45
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby DeanM45 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:56 am

Next time it does not start look at your dashboard. If the icon with the foot pressing the pedal is lit then you know it is the brake pedal. If you do not know what icon I am talking about, get in the car and without pressing the brake pedal push the start switch and you will see it.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:08 am

When I originally read this thread, I imagined a click from the starter. Now that I think about it, and with Dean's suggestion, I will say this for clarification: If you are experiencing a brake switch on the fritz, the ignition switch will be in ACC after you hit the button once instead of ON, so you can look at it after the car doesn't start. If it is in the ON position, it's another interlock. Here is an edited version of a post I made in another thread recently that describes the other interlocks and what you will see on the dash:
The00Dustin wrote:If it doesn't recognize the key, I think it will say no key where it says to hit the brakes and press the start button (only it will actually say "no key" vs that graphic). It will also show a graphic of steering wheel and arrows if the steering wheel interlock is preventing it from turning (this will prevent going to ACC, and you have to turn the steering wheel so it's between locked position clicks in order to let the ignition turn (same as if you were trying to turn it yourself with a real key), and it will show an arrow next to a P if you need to shift to park if the transmission interlock is causing the problem. If the LCD doesn't indicate a problem and everything else seems fine, it's probably something else.
In this case, the something else would probably be a starter solenoid, for instance. Also, FYI, I said it won't go into ACC with the steering wheel interlock, but I'm not 100% sure that's right. Been a long time since I've had to fight a steering wheel interlock (did on my M once, but I've had it for over 5 years). Regardless, the LCD will indicate the issue if it is the ignition switch not being able to go to the start position due to a safety switch or interlock.

druethe
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06 Infiniti M45

Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby druethe » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:59 am

I checked again this morning and no warning lights of any kind come on when I hit the start (no key needed or depress brake warning. I hit the start button, it clicks, then a few seconds later...my seat will adjust, radio, A/c all turn on.

This morning, it clicked again after all the things had been turned on, so I turned off the radio and a/c and tapped under the start button and it fired up. I'm not saying this will make it work everytime, but normally if it doesnt fire up after all the bells and whistles come on, I can usually cut things off and/or tap around the start button to finally get it going. Many times it fires up on the first try. I can go a week with no problems and then it will go back to intermittent starts for awhile.

It almost sounds to me like either the starter or the ignition switch. I've changed ignition switches on normal key cars before. This was when you would turn the key and there was no action. You could sometimes jiggle the key and then it would start. It ended up being the connection slot on the switch had basically worn down and sometimes it would turn over and sometimes it wouldnt (or slip). It almost feels like thats what is going on, but I dont know if the push button starts work the same way.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:54 am

I'm pretty sure they work the same way, you can hear the ignition switch turning, for instance, if you press it without your foot on the brake to go into ACC. Also, if the switch didn't mechanically turn, there would be no reason for it to stick when the steering wheel is locked (that is a mechanical design to prevent theft, not a safety design to prevent starting the car).

EDIT: To clarify, the mechanical design to prevent theft is that the steering wheel (and thus, steering system) can't be turned because it is mechanically locked by the ignition switch. The switch not turning while the steering wheel is pressing firmly against the locking mechanism is a side effect.

jiggersplat
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby jiggersplat » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:41 pm

Did this ever get resolved? Mine's doing the same thing.

schafermf
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby schafermf » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:57 am

Reup - I'm having the same issue. Did anyone find a solution?

reefscape15
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby reefscape15 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:10 pm

My car was doing this same thing a month or so ago. It only did it every once in a while, and I could never make a connection with conditions or how long it's been sitting. But it hasn't done it for a while now. I figured starter solenoid not engaging? You could hear a distinct click but the car wouldn't crank. I just kept pressing the start button till it fired up and didn't really give it much thought since it stopped doing it

built2makeit
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby built2makeit » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:41 pm

lol mine is doing the same thing, started about 2 years ago, brought it to the dealer but of course it started normally. smh, sometimes my brake pedal gets super firm after numerous attempts to start it and then it will start randomly. Such a PITA

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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Ilya » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:21 am

built2makeit wrote:lol mine is doing the same thing, started about 2 years ago, brought it to the dealer but of course it started normally. smh, sometimes my brake pedal gets super firm after numerous attempts to start it and then it will start randomly. Such a PITA
It gets stiff because you built up pressure in the system. Totally normal and if it didn't get stiff, you'd have a problem. It gets less stiff when the car is running due to the brake system working and equalizing pressure, if you will.

BlackCat81
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby BlackCat81 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:28 pm

The00Dustin wrote:I'm pretty sure they work the same way, you can hear the ignition switch turning, for instance, if you press it without your foot on the brake to go into ACC. Also, if the switch didn't mechanically turn, there would be no reason for it to stick when the steering wheel is locked (that is a mechanical design to prevent theft, not a safety design to prevent starting the car).

EDIT: To clarify, the mechanical design to prevent theft is that the steering wheel (and thus, steering system) can't be turned because it is mechanically locked by the ignition switch. The switch not turning while the steering wheel is pressing firmly against the locking mechanism is a side effect.
There is nothing that "turns" in the column. There is a NATS antenna near the push button start that gets the transponder ID when the I-Key is in range. The column is locked by the column lock, as these cars don't have a traditional ignition switch.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:27 am

BlackCat81 wrote:
The00Dustin wrote:I'm pretty sure they work the same way, you can hear the ignition switch turning, for instance, if you press it without your foot on the brake to go into ACC. Also, if the switch didn't mechanically turn, there would be no reason for it to stick when the steering wheel is locked (that is a mechanical design to prevent theft, not a safety design to prevent starting the car).

EDIT: To clarify, the mechanical design to prevent theft is that the steering wheel (and thus, steering system) can't be turned because it is mechanically locked by the ignition switch. The switch not turning while the steering wheel is pressing firmly against the locking mechanism is a side effect.
There is nothing that "turns" in the column. There is a NATS antenna near the push button start that gets the transponder ID when the I-Key is in range. The column is locked by the column lock, as these cars don't have a traditional ignition switch.
Something most certainly moves during ignition before the starter engages. If you're going to suggest that I'm wrong about exactly what moves, which I may well be, you could at least go into a little bit of detail with a proper correction. For instance, if something behind the push button doesn't turn the way a keyed ignition would when said keyed ignition is in the dash, then the motion I am describing may well be an electronic actuator or solenoid for the steering wheel lock. At the end of the day, that wouldn't change the fact that the behavior I was describing (vehicle won't start due to steering wheel lock being jammed, even if due to programming vs mechanical switch rotation @ ignition switch) can exist and is a valid point to troubleshoot for the OP's clicking noise and lack of ignition. Another explanation might change that fact, but the lack of any explanation potentially leaves people thinking my entire line of thinking is wrong with the only potential benefit stopping at someone not buying a new start button while still not resolving the issue.

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:17 am

BlackCat81 wrote:There is a NATS antenna near the push button start that gets the transponder ID when the I-Key is in range. The column is locked by the column lock, as these cars don't have a traditional ignition switch.
I've begun to experience this same intermittent occurrence this past two months. I'll start the troubleshooting with the battery, then the starter, etc.
The NATS antenna in our cars is not located near the push button ignition switch, it is integrated into the I-Key slot controller.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:38 am

Costee wrote:I've begun to experience this same intermittent occurrence this past two months. I'll start the troubleshooting with the battery, then the starter, etc.
The NATS antenna in our cars is not located near the push button ignition switch, it is integrated into the I-Key slot controller.
I had an intelligent key issue while under warranty, and some module was replaced, but my I-keys have never been picked up by the slot since then (so if my battery gets too low, I'm SOL). Is there anything around here that could have been left disconnected that may be easy to get to and reconnect?

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:04 am

What was the issue? Were the keys replaced?

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:09 am

Costee wrote:What was the issue? Were the keys replaced?
Keys were not replaced. Red key light in the dash was lit up and dealer said it wasn't safe to drive and left me in a loaner for a couple weeks when I had them check it out. This was in 2009, so I'm really fuzzy on the details. Unfortunately, I didn't notice the slot not working until the fob batteries got too low after the car was out of warranty.

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:59 am

Do you mean no response whatsoever when insert the key into the slot and you press the ignition switch? No movement to Acc and On?
My thoughts:The red light staying solid was certainly a NATS issue. They probably replaced the key slot unit. Normally when you replace with a brand-new unit no programming is needed. But it seems they programmed the remote function, and having done that ought to also have programmed the key function. I think their failure to do this is the cause of the inability of the slot to recognize your key. I’d suggest the keys would have to be reprogrammed.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:27 am

Costee wrote:Do you mean no response whatsoever when insert the key into the slot and you press the ignition switch? No movement to Acc and On?
My thoughts:The red light staying solid was certainly a NATS issue. They probably replaced the key slot unit. Normally when you replace with a brand-new unit no programming is needed. But it seems they programmed the remote function, and having done that ought to also have programmed the key function. I think their failure to do this is the cause of the inability of the slot to recognize your key. I’d suggest the keys would have to be reprogrammed.
Yes, that is what I mean. It acts like there is no key when the key is in the slot. I was under the impression that an RFID-like technology was used regardless, but the battery simply provided amplification so that the fob didn't need to be in the slot. So to be clear, you are telling me that the I-key function that requires battery in the FOB uses separate communication from the function that detects a key in the slot?

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:44 pm

The00Dustin wrote:I was under the impression that an RFID-like technology was used regardless, but the battery simply provided amplification so that the fob didn't need to be in the slot. So to be clear, you are telling me that the I-key function that requires battery in the FOB uses separate communication from the function that detects a key in the slot?
It's a hard one really; but it just does seem to me that the remote has taken over the key because of the improper programming. One more thing: when the key is in the slot how is the red security indicator light--does it blink on, disappear, or stay solid?
Edit. I just found out that it's only brand-new ecm and steering lock unit that do not require key programming (ITB05-007b). So to answer your question, I think there is some dysfunction between the key and the slot as you've observed. Still I'd be curious to know what happens to the security light when the key is in the slot.

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:26 pm

Costee wrote:I've begun to experience this same intermittent occurrence this past two months. I'll start the troubleshooting with the battery, then the starter, etc.
I took my battery to be recharged yesterday. Got it back today and no incident yet. I scanned the car (should have done that before I removed the battery) and it returned a stored (previous) non-MIL code for low battery voltage under the ABS module. As we all know the M is usually up to all sorts of mischief once there is a low battery voltage. My next step will be the starter if issue recurs.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:02 pm

Costee wrote:Edit. I just found out that it's only brand-new ecm and steering lock unit that do not require key programming (ITB05-007b). So to answer your question, I think there is some dysfunction between the key and the slot as you've observed. Still I'd be curious to know what happens to the security light when the key is in the slot.
I'm colorblind. Are you referring to the light on the dash that says security on it, or the light on the slot? In either case, when should it be on / blink / be off? Finally, keep in mind that the fob works fine even while in the slot if the battery is good. That having been said, should the fob in the slot work with no battery at all, and is that what you are asking me to test?

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:27 pm

The00Dustin wrote:Are you referring to the light on the dash that says security on it, or the light on the slot? In either case, when should it be on / blink / be off? Finally, keep in mind that the fob works fine even while in the slot if the battery is good. That having been said, should the fob in the slot work with no battery at all, and is that what you are asking me to test?
1. Yes, it's the light on the dash that says security on it.
2. The light blinks when no action is performed on the car; it's on when your key is not recognized; it's off when your car is on.
3. I don't understand what you mean by the fob working fine when in the key slot. I thought you said the car can't get started with the fob/key in the slot?
4. I believe the car can get started with the fob in the slot, even when there's no battery in the fob; only the remote functions are lost.

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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby steve_c » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:16 pm

Costee wrote:
Costee wrote:I've begun to experience this same intermittent occurrence this past two months. I'll start the troubleshooting with the battery, then the starter, etc.
I took my battery to be recharged yesterday. Got it back today and no incident yet. I scanned the car (should have done that before I removed the battery) and it returned a stored (previous) non-MIL code for low battery voltage under the ABS module. As we all know the M is usually up to all sorts of mischief once there is a low battery voltage. My next step will be the starter if issue recurs.
Are you saying that after the battery recharge all is OK? That said, if the problem re-occurs you are going to look at the starter as a possible issue?
How old is your battery? if it is over 3 or 4 years, why didn't you replace it? Why did it need a charge to begin with?

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:52 pm

steve_c wrote: Are you saying that after the battery recharge all is OK? That said, if the problem re-occurs you are going to look at the starter as a possible issue?
How old is your battery? if it is over 3 or 4 years, why didn't you replace it? Why did it need a charge to begin with?
1. So far so good.
2. Yes, I'll consider the starter next if problem recurs.
3. Battery is 3 years.
4. I've been using the frequently in the past two months. Battery probably lost some power as a result. Yes, I could also consider a new battery if it's determined that some of the cells are going bad.

The00Dustin
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby The00Dustin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:24 pm

Costee wrote:1. Yes, it's the light on the dash that says security on it.
2. The light blinks when no action is performed on the car; it's on when your key is not recognized; it's off when your car is on.
3. I don't understand what you mean by the fob working fine when in the key slot. I thought you said the car can't get started with the fob/key in the slot?
4. I believe the car can get started with the fob in the slot, even when there's no battery in the fob; only the remote functions are lost.
My security light blinks any time I observe it unless the car is running, then it stays off. I've never seen it stay on. Case in point, before leaving work for lunch today, I took the battery out of the fob. It continued to blink.

I mean that on multiple occasions in the past when I get the No Key indicator, inserting the fob into the slot did not enable me to start the car. However, taking the fob into the house and changing the battery did enable me to start the car again. As it turns out, that may have been a bit of a red herring...

While the battery was out of the fob today, I stuck it in the slot and was able to start the car. That tells me the slot works fine after all. Incidentally, before the red key light on the dashboard issue was resolved, I had the car indicate no key once while away from home. Putting the fob in the slot didn't help. I held the fob out the driver window for about 10 seconds, brought it back into the car, and it detected so I was able to start the car. I assumed that issue was resolved when the red key light on the dashboard issue was resolved, but it now seems plausible that I may have been experiencing the same thing in those other post-fix instances.
Costee wrote:1. So far so good.
2. Yes, I'll consider the starter next if problem recurs.
3. Battery is 3 years.
4. I've been using the frequently in the past two months. Battery probably lost some power as a result. Yes, I could also consider a new battery if it's determined that some of the cells are going bad.
I'd recommend replacing the battery now. In the 9.5 years that I've owned my 2006 M45, I've twice had an Interstate rep tell me my battery was fine (two different batteries, two different locations, two different reps) when it apparently wasn't, because replacing it resolved my odd issues both times.

Costee
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Re: M45 Push Button Start Issue

Postby Costee » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:39 pm

The00Dustin wrote:I'd recommend replacing the battery now. In the 9.5 years that I've owned my 2006 M45, I've twice had an Interstate rep tell me my battery was fine (two different batteries, two different locations, two different reps) when it apparently wasn't, because replacing it resolved my odd issues both times.
I guess I will soon. For the moment, it seemed to have addressed the start button issue.


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