M35h Owners Looking to Compare M Hybrid Experiences

[Baxter13]

Evan,

Glad your mileage is picking up. Regarding your numbers, you're spending over twice as much time in EV mode as I am. I only get about 16% EV miles, probably because most of my miles are Interstate. When I'm on rural roads at 50 mph and below, I'll get 35-40% EV miles like you show.

I've done the same calculation of gas vs. EV MPG (Benefit of Hybrid Engine) that you've done, but I think it's a bit inaccurate. Remember that our EV miles on the M-hybrid are all at relatively "low-load" in terms of gas consumption, i.e., we're usually coasting or at very light throttle inputs; otherwise, the gas engine will kick-in. If we were running on gas exclusively, our consumption under those conditions would also be light. So I don't think it's possible to really compare the EV vs. non-EV-mode gas consumption directly. If you take those light-load conditions into account on a gas-only motor, I think its MPG would be higher than what we can calculate directly. Even though your 17 MPG estimate for a gas-only M35 is pretty accurate, I think it may be more coincidence than actuality.

I am surprised at the difference between your dashboard vs. touch screen display MPGs. According to the manual they're supposed to be the same, differing only by the time each is updated. Strange. However, the difference between your indicated vs actual MPG is almost exactly the same as mine -- the computer always reads between 4-10% high, and I've found that to be pretty-much the case on all my other cars as well. I think all the auto manufacturers want their display errors to be in favor of better MPG.

My mileage numbers are always the actuals based on fill-up gallons; I put the values into the "Road Trip" iPhone app at each fill-up, and then export it to a spreadsheet, along with my indicated MPG and the calculated % error. So I know that my indicated MPG is always about 7% higher than what I'm actually getting. i don't record my average speed on each fill-up, but it's usually in the 42 MPH range as best I can recall, again indicative of my predominately Interstate miles & speed.

My gas gauge seems very well calibrated, each quarter-tank is almost exactly 4 gals, so when I get down to empty, I'm down 16 gals and have about 1.8 gals left "in reserve". I typically go between 400-475 miles on a tank, and wait for the reserve light to go on before refueling, which normally happens with 75 miles indicated as remaining.

And that's another minor gripe I have -- when the Miles Remaining hits 42 miles, the display changes from 42 to ****. WTH!! I know that it does it now, so I can anticipate it, but it's kinda worrisome when you drop below 42 miles remaining and you really have no idea what your remaining range is. I just can't understand some of the engineering decisions that Infiiniti made on this car's software & ergonomics. Japanese vs. German engineering thought is very different, and I have to say that I prefer the German decisions. BMW & Mercedes will let you input addresses, link Bluetooth devices, etc., while in motion as you happily drive off the road. The Japanese restrict you from these entries, which is a real PITA, particularly when you have a passenger onboard who can safely enter that information.

Oh well, at least they put the gas cap on the proper side of the car, unlike most Japanese autos…. (The "proper" side being the one facing away from traffic if you have to pull over on the right shoulder when you run out of gas. And have you ever noticed that gas gauges show which side of the car the gas cap is on by a little triangle pointer at the top of the gas gauge? I only noticed that myself a few years ago, maybe I'm just slow.)

BMW Alpina B7 huh? Those are quite rare, I've never seen one, and we have quite a few nice cars on Atlanta roads. And yeah, that's definitely a race that's your's to lose.

[evanmagic]

Hi Baxter,

Thanks. Yes, spending a lot of time in EV mode, but with so much "city" driving, I'm doing a lot of starting and stopping. Also, on the short runs I have on the interstate, I get anywhere from 21 to 26 mpg on average highway. When you're on your "highway" roads, which it sounds like you're spending a lot of time, what's your average speed? Our interstate here is 70, everyone pretty much goes 75-80.

Yes, great point on the EV vs Gas true mpg. Yes, the miles we drive in EV aren't heavily burdened, so those are miles we're taking away from the GAS mpg if we didn't have electric...low burdened. Another way to look at it though, in my case with 35% EV, that's about 1 out of every 3 miles I drove without gas, and 2/3 miles at 17 mpg...not bad since my old cars did about that or worse 3/3 miles.

Interesting to hear about how "off" the actual MPG is versus the dash displays. I like that you're tracking this carefully so we can learn from the results. Since my last tank had a snafu with the touch screen not moving for about 10 miles, I'm just not resetting the dash display this tank, but resetting the touch screen display daily to see how the day goes...and boy, you just never know with this car...some trips are amazing, others not...can't figure it out!

I've been using Fuelly.com to track my gas...not sure if I mentioned that: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/evanmagic/m35 If you join, I put the car under M35 since they don't have an "h" category.

Yes, don't understand not showing us actual miles to empty, but just a warning **** meaning, get to the gas station! We're all adults here, give us the actual number!

Funny about the gas tank on the passenger side...upon first fill up, I thought the tank was on the driver side...tried to pull in to the wrong pump, almost crashed the new car as another guy was pulling into the same pump...I'm shouting at him and he's shouting back and gesturing, "It's on the other side!" Egg in my face, but the guy actually wanted to know more about the car and couldn't believe it was a hybrid.

And yes, that's Palm Springs for you...16 year-olds driving Bentley convertibles and movie-stars getting away for the weekends... We actually live on the other end of town...not in the "touristy" area, but the normal year-round resident area...if that makes any sense, but still, out and about, it can be a scene. You'd think Range Rovers were in short supply and everyone had to have one. Not my cup a tea, but they're all over...

[Baxter13]

Evan,

75-80 mph is my normal speed on my Interstates w/ a 70 mph limit. Otherwise, I average about 10 mph over the limit, which seems to be the threshold before enforcement kicks in.

I got 32.1 MPG on my last tank, an admittedly short fill-up of only 5.5 gals after a 177 mile, 75-80 mph trip, but now I'm officially in the 32+ MPG range (w/o trying to "hyper-mile" it)!!

BTW, I think my car helped save me from a a possible accident today. I was driving about 60 on a 6-lane Interstate coming into downtown Atlanta when my lane abruptly came to a complete stop. The car in front of me veered out of its lane to avoid collision, and although I already had my foot on the brake, the FCW (Forward Collision Warning) beep sounded and the IBA (Intelligent Brake Assist) kicked in w/ ABS to brake me more sharply than I had intended, throwing all my passenger-seat contents into the floor. This was the first time I've felt ABS kick in on this car, and I don't think I was pressing hard enough on the brake to have activated ABS myself at the time. Don't know whether I'd have hit the car in front of me w/o its intervention or not, but I easily avoided it today in any event. The car behind me also managed to avoid hitting me (thank-you anonymous driver), but it stopped a-lot closer to my rear-end than I did to the car in front of me.

I'll give Infiniti the win & credit it for a potential crash avoidance today. Nice stuff, and I'm obviously very happy about it. The only other time I've had ABS kick-in w/o my intervention was when I was cornering very hard while simultaneously braking on a race track in a Corvette, and the ABS slowed me down harder than I was braking to keep me on the track. But applying ABS in a corner at speed is a much easier calculation (speed vs. brakes vs. steering angle) than applying it in a straight line w/o other warnings (requiring forward-ranging laser/sonar sensors). So I was mightily impressed today.

I think the FCW / IBA may only be part of the Technology Package. Does your car have the IBA system, or is that just part of the Tech Package? IMO, it should be standard on every car.

Also, LOL regarding your BMW Alpina sighting, I forgot you lived in Palm Springs. Atlanta is kinda-like Shantytown compared to your area (although we did have a news event about a single-car hi-speed crash involving a Ferrari driven by an 18-yr-old today)…

[evanmagic]

Hi Baxter,

Wow, still blown away by your 30+ mpg tanks. I just have my fingers crossed that when the engine hits 10,000+ miles I can get close to the same. Current tank is looking okay...not as good as last I don't believe, but not terrible. On our same speed highways, where you're pulling 32 mpg, I'm getting 21-27 max.

Amazing about the car and stopping to avoid an accident. Every car should have such features and one day they will. These features are not in the Premium Package, but the Tech Package, so I do not have those. Would love them. There are some bells and whistles that come more easily available on lower priced cars, but then, I'd rather have what the M Hybrid Premium offers first, above anything else...then add on the tech if I could price it out. All I really cared about was getting the Premium Package so I could get the Nav system...really glad I have that, because the whole system is much better (outside of just the nav). I noticed the JX has some really neat bells and whistles as well...would love it...but just don't "need" it.

Yes, again, we don't live in the "hollywood" part of Palm Springs, more of a normal area...however, my kid's school is in the ritzy area...so I see a handful of Ferrari's on my trips there and back... Funny mix...hot shots and 80 year olds...the slowest and the fastest drivers on the same roads!

Okay, here's my gripe list for the car thus far...things I hope are improved, but nothing major, and all related to the center control console:

- No telephone access on the center console...only an oddly placed button on the steering wheel? MB had both, steering wheel and center control...much better, also for passengers.

- Would like apps on the touch screen...those that pull from our phones... Other cars have it now...we need it. Google Maps, Pandora, etc. Lexus has it...Ford, etc...

- The voice command system is a drag...unless I'm doing something wrong...and I know there are two modes...but neither mode is practical...by the time you tell the car to dial a friend, you've already arrived at their house. The voice commands should be EASY... "Call Joel..." Done.. this system is odd, lengthy and to me almost worthless. Thoughts on this? Anyway to improve this system in the settings...maybe I'm missing something.

- Only way to scan through each XM channel, one by one, is by turning the knob on the passenger side of the car...way too far away...feeling like I'm going to crash just trying to flip through the stations... There are 18 presets and a "jump to category" button, but any way to flip through the stations one by one, except for that passenger knob? I thought I saw it on the touch screen, but I think I just saw the categories again.

- Finally, we need to be able to have our text messages from the phone come up live on the touch screen and/or have them read to us out loud. BMW already has this...I'm sure other cars have it... Also, voice dictation for replying to a text. I know I'm being picky, but other cars already have this.

Okay, minor gripes, but if a new generation had more advancements like this, I'd get a new M when this lease were up, etc.

Now...I'll be really really picky... The car should sync to the calendar on my computer...through my phone... either through Outlook or Google. When I get in the car, it knows my schedule and where I'm going and asks if I'll need direction or map guidance to my destination, already input in my calendar. That's either already available or coming soon. Beyond that, the car should just drive me there...knowing exactly where I'm going from the calendar. Done.

[bejjutsu]

Great thread! I don't have this car, but it's an interesting read. Thanks for writing everything out in detail!

[Baxter13]

Evan,

The telephone access doesn't bother me too much, and I don't mind the phone button only being on the steering wheel. Touch the phone button, then 3 quick presses on the left-side steering wheel controller (to select Vehicle Phonebook, then the desired number from the list, then Call) and the call is placed. Takes about 5 seconds.

The voice control takes me about 18 seconds -- press the Voice button, say "Call Home" (or whoever), verbally specify the desired number from the list of choices, then say "Call".

I use the "Alternative" voice control for everything, the one where it isn't as talkative in requesting your choices.

Apparently on some phones, you can download the entire phone list into the Vehicle Phonebook at once. With my iPhone I have to enter each one manually, which is a pain to initially get set up. But I just load my 5 most frequently used numbers into it, so it's very quick access. If I need a different number, then I have to choose the Handset Phonebook and then scroll thru my zillion numbers to get to the one I want.

I agree with all your radio complaints, I wish I could go to more than 6 presets without having to switch to XM2 or XM3, and I also wish I could manually advance stations (not just presets) from the steering wheel controller. But using the tuning knob doesn't bother me that much.

All the other things you mention -- text reading, apps integration, etc., would be great, and I'm sure they'll be in there in a year or two. But I knew it didn't have those coming in, so I can't really gripe too much about that. It also doesn't have night-vision assist like BMW & MB have, and I wish it did, but then the MB or BMW don't have the nice hybrid power-train that this car does. So, as always, it's all about tradeoffs.

At least the iPhone/iPod iteration is really well done, and I can fake the use of other sound sources and apps by using Siri and running the apps from the iPhone. And when you use Siri it uses the car's microphones and speakers so you don't have to hold the phone other than to press the Home button to activate Siri. For example if you press the Siri (Home) button on the iPhone and say "Open Pandora", it'll start streaming music from Pandora. You do have to use the phone screen to select an initial artist or library, but after that the song info is displayed on the LCD display, and the left-side steering wheel controller will advance to the next or previous song just as with any other music source. Definitely not as nice as having the app fully integrated into the display, but it still provides additional alternative sources. And you can also set Siri to read your text messages to you automatically, and to send replies from your voice command, so again, not really integrated, but usable as a workaround.

It does make me kinda wish I'd leased the car instead of purchased it though, 'cause I know these electronic upgrades will probably be coming before long.

[evanmagic]

Hi Baxter,

Missed this post again... Enjoy the conversation... I sometimes get an email that someone has posted...other times not. i just need to start checking the forum directly.

Only minor beef for me still is the phone button on the steering wheel and lame voice controls...I'm constantly still reaching for a button on the dash...but oh well, no big deal at all. I too use the phone book in the same way and find once the numbers are in, it's quite easy to operate. Oh and yes, the phone system does pick up my Samsung Galaxy S2 phone book...but guess what, the car CAN NOT be MOVING to access the phone's phone book! Like not being able to set the nav route while the car is moving...it's truly nuts...but oh well! I have been able to run the blue-tooth audio from the phone and that's been great...no need to plug in the phone. Ever messed with the image viewer? USB? I think I'll try today. No idea what for, but I'll try. I know in Lexus you can change the start up image on the screen to a family photo or something like that, but haven't tried on ours.

Right trade-offs are always there. I'd love to see a more feature rich car in the next revise, but I'm hoping they don't drastically change all of the things I love about the car. But, I will say, I'm spoiled now, and really don't see myself in another car (either buy this one or lease another) in three years when lease is up.

Cooool...I like that Siri option! Great idea! I have the Galaxy and will probably up for the S3, but I know there are similar voice commands...definitely worth trying out and very slick idea with Siri!

Meanwhile, back to driving...I was FINALLY able to take the car on a trip longer than 15-30 miles in city! Basically got to drive to and from Disneyland, which is about 100 miles away. So, round trip used about half the tank and the touch-screen read out showed about 31 mpg each way. I was very please with this. I know it shoots high, but in my little area with 10 miles max on highway, I rarely see the benefit of the longer highway ride...mostly because we're heading uphill heading out and downhill back. The long trip to Disney really let the car average out and adjust...and you could really see it happening. At times I was in ECO only at 70 mph...the battery was nicely charged, the mpg kept rising...it was a great feeling. I think it also "worked out" the engine a bit, which it needed. Note, still only have about 7000 miles on the car, so I'm hoping past 10,000 we start seeing the higher mpg on the highway, but I was still happy with the result. Had I got to Disney at 24 mpg, I would have been upset!

So, for the rest of the week, we drove our regular "city driving"...and ended the tank with 407 miles...our largest yet...that felt nice. I've never owned a car that when much farther than 300 miles per tank, even on highway. Dash read 29.6 mpg for tank...actual was 27.6...our best yet and not complaining. Would love to see a true 29 (as rated mixed city and highway), but not far off. Total EV miles were about 25%...our lowest, but obviously doesn't really matter because of the great highway numbers. Around town, I still see 35 to 50% EV miles, but all that stopping and starting just guzzles the gas. So, pleased with the drive. I'm also learning to just drive it and let the car figure out what to do, as opposed to me playing with everything too much. The car (I'm convinced) has a mind of its own, and just uses the gas and electric to optimize any driving situation...battery charge remaining, managing speed uphill or downhill or in the face of different resistance.. far more intelligently than I could ever know just trying to drive.

So we'll see as we add some more miles. Question, how often do you service this car? I'm already showing an only change is needed...about 3500 miles? Do you follow this? Odd to me when my MB only needed a service every 10,000...our Volvo every 7500...my wife's VW before the Volvo, only every 5000? Do I really need to service this car so often?

[Baxter13]

Haven't tried the image viewer, but I've played DVD's. They only show the video when you're in Park with the Parking Brake on. Otherwise it's audio-only. The Handset Phonebook only working while stationary is another snafu IMO, but that seems to be the way of Japanese cars.

And you've hit on another big gripe for me regarding the service intervals. They're ridiculously short at 3,500 miles, not based on actual engine use and time since last service like the German cars, and even more absurd when a significant percentage of those miles are spent in EV-mode with the engine not even running. Crazy. I'm sure the oil would be actually good for 10,000 miles as in any other modern car. But I get free oil changes at my dealership, they top up the tires with nitrogen, and I get a loaner car each time, so I've been following it thus far. But it is annoying to take it in for service so often, and these issues are the kinds of things they need to tweak if they really expect to be considered at the same level as Mercedes and Audi.

[dlibner]

Hi all, I am new to this forum and there seems to be a lot of good information from hybrid owners. I just got my new 2012 M35h with all the packages and I must say, it's a great car so far! I notice that my mileage is a lot lower than expected (17-19 so far) but I have only driven a few miles in the car so that may just be the fact that the car is brand new and needs a break-in period. I have the car in full Eco mode with the pedal set to resist me so I can train myself to drive for more efficient fuel consumption.

I notice on the forum that several members are able to discern miles driven in EV mode vs. regular miles. I have not been able to figure out how to see those statistics in the vehicle's Navigation panel. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

- Dean

[evanmagic]

Hi all, I am new to this forum and there seems to be a lot of good information from hybrid owners. I just got my new 2012 M35h with all the packages and I must say, it's a great car so far! I notice that my mileage is a lot lower than expected (17-19 so far) but I have only driven a few miles in the car so that may just be the fact that the car is brand new and needs a break-in period. I have the car in full Eco mode with the pedal set to resist me so I can train myself to drive for more efficient fuel consumption.

I notice on the forum that several members are able to discern miles driven in EV mode vs. regular miles. I have not been able to figure out how to see those statistics in the vehicle's Navigation panel. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

- Dean

Hi Dean,

Glad you wrote in. Glad you're loving the car thus far...well, except for the gas mileage! That should change, but more on that in minute. I too love the car, for many reasons. Here, most importantly, I've learned a lot talking with other owners before me in this forum and glad everyone is here to help. I got mine in August, so it's still pretty new to me, but I think I already have about 7000+ miles on the car, so I've done a lot of testing.

Most importantly for me, while I love the car, I really did look to own a Hybrid this time around, so the 27/32 mpg rating was really important to me. To date, my average mpg is about 24-25 mpg in real tank numbers. Not bad, but really would love to see 27 consistently. I do believe there are many factors for this... Bottomline, I believe the most important factor is where you live and the terrain, along with City or Highway driving. I've noticed since I've owned the car, I live in a "hilly" area, where my home is really far down hill compared to "town." This means, when I head out in the day, I'm starting off heading uphill anywhere I go, and then the rest of the day, I'm trying to make up the good numbers. Anyway, you may start to notice these things. Level ground is pretty amazing. I can drive the car 25 - 40 mph in EV mode for what feels like miles on level ground, as long as there's battery charge. The more you drive, the more you recognize when you can get the car in EV mode and when it will be a challenge. There will be drives where you'll see 19 mpg...others 42...sometimes you'll be surprised...but the average should come up in the low 20's to start. Then, hopefully mid-20's or higher. Another quick note on this. I also find, the car needs to warm up...so the mileage gets better later in the trip...if you drive a short trip to the store and back, may not see full benefit of the battery...and I've read about this with Prius, etc, as well.

I also think the car needs to break in a bit. I haven't noticed a huge difference yet, but I do notice, on long drives, highway, etc...even just in a trip, the more you drive, the numbers get better. I've seen 30+ mpg, so that's been nice. My continuous smaller city driving brings me down.

My car only has the Premium Package, so Navigation but not Eco pedal. I do have Eco mode, which limits the throttle and the gas still feels heavier, but I'm about to conclude officially that the ECO mode was not really made for our cars, but for Standard M's...even the ECO pedal. I note this because the hybrid system needs you to drive, accelerate, get to coasting speeds, etc. If you're driving in the city from stop light to stop light and you're spending all your time accelerating and it takes too long to reach a good speed, you're just using gas. Anyway, more on that. I think you'll find as you use the car more...give it a week in ECO, then switch to Standard...seems like everyone else I've talked to on the forum has done the same.

One final note on this, and wanted to mention this to Baxter as well, after several weeks in Standard, I've switched back to ECO this week to see what happens...haven't filled up yet, but so far, I haven't noticed any MPG increase average. I will report back.

Regarding the EV versus gas miles, this can be found on the in-dash display. I refer to the nav display as the touch-screen and the little display in front of you the dash display. You can cycle through that dash display with a button on the side. Go through those, and look closely till you see EV miles...you'll see total that you can't reset and an EV per this trip that you can reset. I find in my city driving, I get about 33-35% EV miles... You'll note here, others with more Highway driving get better MPG with about 25% EV miles.

FInal note, meant to write in response to Baxter on this... I looked in the maintenance schedule in the included guides,etc. Looks like there's a schedule A or B. B allows for service every 7500 miles. I'm going with this, assuming it doesn't void the warranty...which nothing says it will. Schedule A is for extreme cold, different types of drives, etc...but I'm in the desert, never snows, rarely rains...I think I'm safe with B. More as I learn more.

Also, Dean, any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

[dlibner]

Hey Evan and thanks so much for the great and timely reply to my question. I'm so glad you started this forum and even more glad that I found it!

It turns out I had been looking in the wrong place for the EV driving %. Thanks for setting me straight and I will try and look for that tonight.

Regarding mileage, I do live in a relatively flat area (Southeastern US) so I think I will begin to see improvements as I break in the car. I understand your comment about the car having to be warmed up to get the mileage increase. One thing I already have noticed is that when the car is cold or has not been started in awhile and I push the start button, I can hear the motor churn for some time and then once the engine is warmed up, the churning stops and I am in EV mode. This is all before I even get the car moving. If the car has been recently driven and I get in to start it, it fires up immediately in EV mode so that right there proves that the car needs to be warm to get the maximum mileage benefit.

I do have another question. One feature I really like about my 1998 Q45T (which I still own) is that I have it set for the cabin lights to turn on when I unlock the car with the remote. On the 2012, I have figured out how to set the Welcome Lights (lights in the outside door handles) to turn on but I am strill struggling getting the cabin lights to go on as I approach the vehicle at night. Do you know if this feature exists?

I totally agree with your take on the service maintenance intervals. The type of oil that goes in the older cars does not last as long as the synthetic oils used in these new cars. For my Q45T, Infiniti recommended taking it in every 3,750 miles, which I did, but with the newer cars, I am comfortable doing it every 7,500 miles like you say and that should be more than sufficient. In my case, I won't drive that many miles in 6 months so I will be taking it in about every 6 months. It sounds like you live in SoCal so you likely do a good bit more driving than me. I lived there for a number of years myself so believe me I know what the driving conditions are like. With the gas prices out there, I also understand why you wanted a hybrid

- Dean

[evanmagic]

Hi Dean,

Yes, definitely! The gas prices here are high! Yes, we'll definitely save on the hybrid...even 4-8 mpg better will save us compared to before. And, I definitely wanted a more efficient, less wasteful car... So, then the question was, do I want an Infiniti or a Prius? Definitely am a car guy and could probably never drive a Prius for more than 20 minutes before wanting to cry. And, I needed a bigger family car...coming from a Mercedes C300 that was just TINY...even for three people... So, on the checklist this time around, BIG sedan. So, the M is really a perfect fit.

You're absolutely right about the start from gas or EV, when the car is warm or cold. Here I sometimes have the opposite problem (in the summer heat), waiting for the batteries to cool off! Either way, you'll notice these things and start to not worry about them...but I will say, you'll also notice, especially in the beginning, this car has a mind of its own. Sometimes you'll start in EV on one batter cell, sometimes you won't. Sometimes you'll be going downhill with a full battery at 40 mph and stuck on gas, no EV. I think the computer is constantly accessing the environment and putting its best foot forward. You learn not to worry about it...is what it is.

Another note on ECO mode vs. standard. Today, I tested myself, and stayed in ECO mode the entire 30+ mile drive, while never pushing the pedal into the "orange" warning. I did do a round (city) trip of 32+ mpg on the nav computer (reset from start today). Only problem with this is that I was REALLY driving like a snail...I mean, really, to stay in ECO with the "green light" on the dash, is almost truly painful. You almost can't drive the car like this this entire time...especially with 360 horses ready to go! So, definitely good for gas mileage if you can really "try"...but under normal driving, it's just not really practical. Perhaps a good mix of "trying" and enjoying is the right way to go.

Ya know, I've never noticed the lights, whether mine light up on the inside or not...I'll have to check at night and see what happens. The manual may give a setting on the lights that you can adjust. I did notice that my side-mirrors did not tilt down when backing up...looked in the manual and realized they don't tilt down if you have the "left or right side mirror switch" on the door adjust a certain way...can't remember but one way turns them on, one off. There are so many little things...and only if we all had any time to read that HUGE manual!...plus the Hybrid guide and everything else.

Final note, a follow up to Baxter, as well... The Nav screen that doesn't allow you to make many adjustments while the car is moving is getting really annoying! Unless the car is standing still, you can't connect phones, can't access your phone's contacts, can't set a route in nav..and my latest favorite, can't direct tune XM...so if you want to go directly to channel 115, etc, you can't punch in the numbers unless that car is not moving. You can scroll to it, or go to a preset, but no direct tune! I think I'm actually going to crash just trying to figure out ways to do these things...like pull the phone out of my pocket to get a number or scroll through a hundred channels!

Anyway, Dean, again. Enjoy. The car is really something special... Any questions, any time, definitely post...

[dlibner]

Hey Evan, no way I could drive a Prius either. While I put a high value on fuel economy, I am also looking for luxury and performance at the same time and this Infiniti is the ONLY car that I could find that has the perfect marriage of all three. It so happened I had already been driving an Infinti since 2003 and she's still going strong at 150K miles. So yes, perhaps I was a bit biased with my selection. I looked at Audi, Lexus, Cadillac but none of them seemed to hold a candle to the M35h in terms of what I was after.

I bought this car sight unseen over the internet. I had test driven a beautiful black one at my local dealership here in Charlotte, NC back in October and tried to buy it at that time, but the dealer was asking more than I wanted to pay. It's late in the car-buying season for 2012s and I know they wanted to move it off the lot to make room for the 2013s but they were pretty stubborn. Long story short, they sold it to someone else and then through my online research I found the exact same car at a dealership in northern Virginia with whom I haggled out a great price. They shipped it directly to my house and it came off the truck brand new last Friday night!

It's only been a few days and I have not left Eco mode yet. I could kick myself in thinking that my MPG per the display was substandard compared to what I am reading others say on this forum. I should not have been so presumptuous - I literally just got the car off the truck last Friday and at the time, it had about 150 miles on it. Silly me failed to realize that this car had been likely been driven a number of miles by the dealer and customers of the dealership who had test-driven the car. No wonder the darn thing was telling me I was only getting 17-19mpg!!

Last night, I decided to reset the fuel economy gauges and drove it for about 10 miles around my neighborhood. I am really starting to get a feel for how to keep it in EV mode. It's pretty responsive, except for on hills as you say. From a stop, I try to accelerate slowly but deliberately (it probably drives the cars behind me nuts!) and once I get up to my desired speed, I lightly let off the gas pedal and it snaps into EV mode. I can keep it there until I get to a hill. If I have to slow down or stop, I just try to coast or lightly apply the brakes since that pushes power back into the battery. It tends to remain in EV mode until I accelerate again from the light and then the cycle begins anew. Driving like this, I got home and the gauge indicated I was getting just a shade under 40mpg! That blew me away and makes me think the car is as good as advertised.

I'm still getting familiar with all the controls and switches. I did not even know that the mirrors could turn themselves downward in reverse. I have not been able to figure out which switch setting does that. I imagine I could drive this car for many years and never come close to using all the features it has built into it!

[Baxter13]

Dean, the interior lights come on when you unlock the doors w/ the remote (just as with your Q45) or by touching the button on the exterior door handle, but not when you simply approach the car. Only the exterior courtesy lights in the handles come on when you approach.

I've got all the packages like your car, and have about 22K miles on mine now after a bit over a year. My mileage started improving at about 11,000 miles, going from a cumulative avg. of 27.6 mpg for the first 11,000 miles, to 29.1 over the second 11,000 miles. Using ethanol-free gas will also give you about a 2 mpg improvement, and if you look on pure-gas.org you'll find a lot of ethanol-free stations in NC where you live. I think you'll also find that your computer MPG read-out is optimistic compared to actual fuel consumption, off by about 7% on my car.

As mentioned, the ECO mode is painfully slow if you follow it religiously; I normally only drive in Std. or Sport mode, and I just use the "gas pedal" display to help encourage me to slightly ease off the gas in steady driving. The only use I've found for ECO mode is when you're using the adaptive cruise control. It'll give you much smoother acceleration when the cruise control resumes speed after slowing for traffic, whereas Std. or Sport mode will throw you back in your seat when the car in front of you moves out of the way.

Evan, nice find about Service A vs. Service B!! I hadn't downloaded that manual nor looked at the hard copy. I'll switch over to Service B intervals, and that will help a lot in reducing my trips to the dealer.

[dlibner]

That's great information Baxter, thanks. I do now see that both the welcome lights (door handle) and cabin lights come on when I unlock with the remote, however, when I approach the car, nothing happens on its own. I would expect to see the welcome lights come on as I approach. There must be a setting for that and I will ask the dealer about it when I go in next.

I did locate some ethanol-free gas near me on pure-gas.org but only 89 octane is available. I am accustomed to putting 93 in my cars so is it worth sacrificing the octane level to get the ethanol-free gas?

So glad I found you guys on this site. It'll be great sharing "war stories" together. You are right about sharing M35h information with other car owners. They will just not be able to appreciate what this car can do and it does seem a bit like gloating since it blows away the other cars in its class. Just last night, I had a friend sit in my car and he said it was far nicer than the 75K car (Cadillac XTS) his friend had recently purchased.

[Baxter13]

The Welcome lights only come on if the doors are locked when you approach.

89 or 90 octane ethanol-free is what is normally available to me as well, and I certainly prefer 93 octane ethanol-free when I can find it on rare occasions. But the engine computer automatically adjusts the timing to avoid any detonation, so what you're giving up with lower octane is just a very small difference in maximum horsepower. Maybe you only get 350 HP with 89 octane vs. 360 with 93 octane (and the difference is probably smaller than that). Since everyone spends almost all of the time at less than full-throttle, the advantages of better gas mileage and a cleaner engine / fuel delivery system with ethanol-free make it worthwhile for me. And I doubt you would ever notice any performance difference anywhere except perhaps on a drag strip with timed runs. But that's a purely personal decision of course.

[evanmagic]

Yes, Dean, you'll definitley have fun with this car. My first weekend, while sort of annoyed with the MPG, I must have put 300 miles on it, just playing and testing. When you're driving in EV, it's an amazing feeling...or on the highway getting 30+ mpg, and watching the battery kick in and sometimes completely take over. Sometimes you'll drive for a mile at 45 mph in EV...and think wow!

Wow, Dean, you must have got one of the last and newest 2012's off the lot. I too got in good with the end of 2012 models in August, but my car had been on the lot for a while, lots of test driven miles...figured it broke in the car a bit for me. Also, when I got mine, there were apparently only 17 or 16 M Hybrids left in Southern California and only 2 left with the wheat interior (can't have black here in the sun). So, it's great what you got! There are few minor difference in the 2013 model...only thing enough to talk about is that the back-up camera now has rear sonar to help you reverse. Otherwise, I think the trunk-lid may have a soft close, like the old Cadillac's use to have...you slam the truck, but it closes softly at the end...no idea what that's called! Anyway, no reason to wait for a 2013, except for maybe resale, but then again, you're paying more up front, so no loss.

You'll eventually get out of ECO mode...though again, unlike a Prius, it's so fun to have options with this car. When I feel like a Sunday drive, it's great...when I feel like I need a sport sedan, it's like nothing else.

I'll keep you posted on what Infiniti tells me about Service Maintenance 1 or 2... I've got a question in, waiting for response.

A few numbers from my latest drives. I've been averaging about 24-25.5 mpg in Standard. I did switch this last tank to driving in ECO only and did get 25.5 mpg. This is not a major difference, but I did sort of feel I didn't try as hard in ECO. Then again, who knows. Probably were many other conditions. I do know, if I hit 26 or 27 in ECO, I'd probably start using it more, but after another normal week of driving in ECO, it did not benefit me at all. I will note however, I am probably going to play with the dial more...not so much for MPG, but in certain settings, I like the way ECO drives (a little calmer) and other times, I like Standard... (I don't have the guts for Sport!)

Also, Baxter, I too note, my Dash MPG for the tank is about 6% - 7% higher than real numbers. Last fill up was 6% higher.

Don't get many chances to take long highway drives, but got my second chance yesterday, about 90 miles one way, then 90 back. Nav screen showed 31.5 mpg for entire trip. I figure real numbers, that's probably about 30 mpg. I'll take it. Final note...at one point on the trip home...going about 75-80 mph...going slightly downhill (but not terribly steep)...car kicked into EV mode...it stayed for a while, and I thought, wow, I should note the mileage... It stayed in EV for over 3 miles...at about 75-80 mph... I took a photo.... See below...

[dlibner]

Very cool stuff Evan and thanks for sharing. At the time I did my research looking for this car, it was the only 2012 left that I could find anywhere. Unless cars.com does not list all the available cars, this was the last 2012 in the U.S. to be had. There were plenty of 2013s but I figured I could get a much better deal on the 2012 and that's what I did.

I finally got my car out for some errands today and was playing around with the different modes. I did a bit more highway driving this time and I am finding it much harder to get into EV mode on the freeway than I do just driving around town. Is there a special technique you guys use to maximize the freeway miles you travel in EV mode? I can let off the gas and have it slip into EV mode but then I don't feel like I am going fast enough and I feel like I have to hit the gas again which takes it out of EV mode. At just around 200 miles on the car now, I have done 55 of those in EV mode and the readout is showing me as getting 27.5 mpg. I am pretty happy with that considering the car is still brand new.

I put it in Sport mode today and just marveled at the acceleration and its handling around the curves. I was blowing by other cars on the freeway with relative ease. Even at high speeds, this car can accelerate pretty well. I am very happy with my purchase!

Let's keep the conversations going...this is fun!

[evanmagic]

...I am finding it much harder to get into EV mode on the freeway than I do just driving around town. Is there a special technique you guys use to maximize the freeway miles you travel in EV mode? I can let off the gas and have it slip into EV mode but then I don't feel like I am going fast enough and I feel like I have to hit the gas again which takes it out of EV mode...

Quick reply so you don't worry about it...and why these forums are a big help... On the highway, or really when traveling over 65 mph, the EV mode will rarely come on. The car generally will get better gas mileage, but you'll notice the battery display kicking in some electric power once in a while and sometimes taking control, but you rarely go into full EV if you're doing a steady 65 mph+... However, if you've been traveling for a while, full battery power, headed downhill a bit, the car will kick into EV mode automatically, without our little foot adjustments we make around town. Note, on the highway, with traffic, you'll see even more EV or higher mpg because the car is allowed to coast as well as travel at a more efficient speed, such as 60 as opposed to 80. So again, my car RARELY goes into full EV mode when I'm cruising at 75, but the electric engine will kick in to help mpg...even if not in full EV. Any coasting or downhill will make it happen, and I've seen more battery usage on the highway as my car has broken in...now at 8000 miles. I've read a lot about this, asked a lot here, and even asked Infiniti as I was worried at first, but the more you use the car, the more you see how intelligent it is. Pretty cool. Any questions about this, let me know.

[evanmagic]

Quick note: I received a call back from Nissan/Infiniti, in which they said if you follow Schedule 2 of the Maintenance Plan, it will not void the warranty in any way...he did stress to make sure I didn't go over 7500 miles, but still, I'm good with this.

[evanmagic]

Hey guys... Looks like next time around we may be driving Q70 Hybrids... Have you see the change ahead for 2014? Thoughts? See: http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/news-and ... ction.html

[Baxter13]

Interesting and strange IMO. The Q model used to be the Infiniti flagship, and now Infiniti is folding all of their models into the "Q" name with the only differentiator being "QX" for SUVs, and a different number for each model otherwise? Infiniti's models currently include the midsize G coupes & sedans, full-size M sedans, and EX, FX, JX, and QX SUV/Crossovers. I suppose they might also suffix an "x" to the model number of their 4-wheel drive variants of each model (or maybe not, if they don't include an "h" on their hybrid variants).

This seems bizarre, confusing, and contrary to the convention used by virtually every other auto manufacturer. I'm guessing that they must have had a significant change in their leadership, and true-to-form, the new leader feels it necessary to "improve and reorganize" by renaming everything. I can't imagine that this naming change will last for very long. Consumers like to distinguish models either by series or class designations on import cars, or different model names on domestic cars, and numeric increments don't do that. Why not just call them the Infiniti Model A, B, C, etc.? Seems stupid to me.

Though as a 2012 M35h owner, I'm heartened by the only modest changes made to the 2013 M35h versus the 2012. Power-trunk closing, auto-dimming side mirrors, Sport Package w/ 20" wheels, sport suspension, better brakes, sport seats, front fascia changes & paddle shifters, "Infiniti Connection", and sonar backup alerts are all nice upgrades, but not enough to make me wish I'd waited for the 2013 model. Now if they'd added IR night-vision and more improvements to their navigation and audio ergonomics, I might feel differently.

I'll be interested to see how their new naming convention maps out across all their different models. But right now it just sounds dumb, dumb, dumb, and not at all innovative.

[evanmagic]

Yes, agree, Baxter...the 2013 was not enough to wait for...nor pay more for...glad we got in on the 2012.

The name change is really silly...and following Audi's A theme (and Q for suv's...stupid). I can't imagine losing the brand recognition in G or M or JX or FX, etc. Been following customer response on Infiniti's Facebook page, and there a pretty much ZERO positive responses to this. But, at the end of the day, I don't care what they call them...I just think it's dumb to change what they have. It's not like Buick, with a bad brand name and bad model names.. Buick could change to the A50 or X9 and it would sound much more appealing, but Infiniti already has a carved out niche in the LetterNumber scheme. Oh well.

Meanwhile...took the hybrid on two long highway trips...about 350 miles each way. At the end, each way, did 27-28 mpg real numbers. While this is technically great compared to any large luxury vehicle or any car I've ever owned, I am disappointed. Got about 9000 miles on the car and really would expect full highway drives to be breaking 30 real numbers. So, I love the car, but I would consider this okay gas mileage for a hybrid that's EPA rated 27/32. My averages are 24/27 reality. I guess I'm more disappointed in the HWY numbers, because city, at the very least, I'm driving the car in EV much of the time. I enjoy driving around parking lots or down a mile on a 40 mph road using no gas...and then when I want to punch it, it's like a rocket ship. Getting 24-26 mpg around city is impressive to me.

My next kick... I'm starting to get really anxious to get the Infiniti LE (or whatever they'll call it now) when it's (hopefully) released in 2014 as a 2015 model. Here's the link: http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/future-v ... ncept.html This car is full electric and apparently based on the Nissan Leaf, but with an Infiniti body/feel/features. The Leaf is not my style, but assuming this LE is comfortable and spacious enough (dimensions read a bit bigger than my old MB C300), then I think it's going to be excellent. My thought is, get the LE for my in town driving...and use the M Hybrid for family drives, weekends, road trips, etc. My guess is that the LE won't go much farther than 60-80 miles in city (in the heat) on a full charge, but that's enough to get around in the day. Heading out of town, we'll take the M. Just looking at the website, I'm starting to really love this car. Obvious problem is that it's not practical for all driving, so I think it's a great second or third car. If it works out, perhaps I'll turn in the M when the lease is up and trade in my Volvo SUV and get into a JX at that time (or whatever they call it). My hope then would be that the JX has a hybrid version, but I've heard nothing about that. (Volvo apparently has a new XC90 coming out that will get 30 mpg...but I seriously doubt that number.)

[Baxter13]

Good analogy to Audi's naming scheme -- I hate theirs also.

Your highway numbers are pretty close to mine, the EV mode doesn't get much use at high speed. I got 28, 29, and 29 MPG on trips to Savannah GA, FL, and AL respectively in May and June of last year. My cumulative average since purchase is 28.4 MPG, and 29.5 over the last 6 months, so yours may continue to improve. I've got 24K miles on my car now.

The Infiniti LE looks pretty good, but there's no data whatsoever shown on the three most important items: price, range, and performance/driveability. I'll save my all-electric lust for a Tesla until Infiniti provides more info on their LE.

[Baxter13]

Did you also catch the reference to an upcoming 550 horsepower Q80 flagship model as part of the explanation for the new naming convention? Now that sounds pretty interesting...

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1081 ... uper-sedan

[mazz]

can't set a route in nav..and my latest favorite, can't direct tune XM...s
i have been sucessful doing these tasks in voice command in my 2008 m35 i bet you can do these as well via voice command
i assume their is a hack avialble for 2012 cars that tricks car into thinking it is in park and emergency brake is on and all functions are avialable then
i am enjoying reading your thoughts about new cars and think writing might be a good part time gig for all of you!
please continue telling us your story
Mazz

[Baxter13]

can't set a route in nav..and my latest favorite, can't direct tune XM...s

You mean using voice recognition?

I haven't tried voice navigation other than speaking addresses, but I believe you have to set a voice-tag on a previously stored destination in order to use voice command to a destination (Nav. Manual, pg. 6-11).

You can direct tune to a XM station using the keypad on the touchscreen (as long as you're not moving, #$%!$), but I don't think direct tuning is possible via voice.

[BWheetley]

I just got my M35h this past week. So far I'm getting between 30 and 33 MPG in Normal (the dot) mode. I feel this is very impressive given the amount of available HP the car has available when needed. I have achieved this mileage by ensuring that I coast as much as possible when approaching stop lights or stopped traffic and releasing my foot from the accelerator to trick the car in going in to EV mode. I then reapply my foot on the accelerator just enough to keep my speed and stay in EV. I have noticed that if I start moving before the "Fuel Economy" section of the info screen has finished initializing (not showing mile to empty yet) then it won't register my MPG during that trip and the MPG will just go down. I have been waiting to start moving until after it has fully initialized and haven't had any other problems.

I have the Deluxe, Premium, and Technology package. I'm quite happy with the comfort of the cabin. The seats are very comfortable as well as the overall roominess. The safety features and truly amazing as the car has brought itself to a stop when I tested it. Three things that I think Infiniti should have included on a car of this level would be LED dome lights, doors that would pull themselves shut if it didn't get shut all the way, and a full color LCD screen in the instrument cluster instead of the regular pixelated Nissan display.

While the infotainment system overall is pretty good, there is some room for improvement such as the downloading of the phone book, better energy flow graphics, etc. I am impressed with the sound from the Bose system when using it with MP3s, CD, and FM. Satellite radio sucks due to how much they compress the audio stream so it would never sound good on any system.

[Baxter13]

Congrats on the car; I agree with most of your comments and impressions. I'm guessing that those 30-33 MPG figures are based on the car's computer readout and not actual measured amounts? Because I think you'll find that the car's MPG readout is usually 5-10% high, so you're probably getting a real 28-30 MPG. Even if so, that's still really impressive, especially considering you just got the car. Mine has the same packages as yours, and I still love it after having driven it for over 25,000 miles. I've got tons of minor gripes as well, but overall it's a pretty great ride.

[BWheetley]

Congrats on the car; I agree with most of your comments and impressions. I'm guessing that those 30-33 MPG figures are based on the car's computer readout and not actual measured amounts? Because I think you'll find that the car's MPG readout is usually 5-10% high, so you're probably getting a real 28-30 MPG. Even if so, that's still really impressive, especially considering you just got the car. Mine has the same packages as yours, and I still love it after having driven it for over 25,000 miles. I've got tons of minor gripes as well, but overall it's a pretty great ride.

That's interesting. I will have to check the mileage with fuelly.com and see if I'm actually getting what the car says. If not, Infiniti really needs to release a software update that would correct that. I really enjoy driving it, and am very happy with my decision.