I have a 2009 Versa equipped with a 6 speed manual transmission. It's very low mileage at around 10,000 miles.
Recently noticed that when it is driven out of the garage and parked in the driveway which has roughly a 20 to 25 degree slope down to the street, leaving it in first gear results in it slowly creeping down the slope.
I'm sure everyone, and probably even the owner's manual suggest you also use the handbrake under such conditions but all my previously owned vehicles never needed the handbrake engaged to avoid such behavior. I should add that this only occurs when the vehicle is cold. If parked in the driveway after full use, the transmission holds the vehicle without having to resort to the hand brake. (Fortunately, I've never waited for the vehicle to cool long enough before putting it in the garage to see if it starts to creep after it cools down!)
Is this 'normal'? If not, what needs adjusting?
M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
Without the emergency brake engaged, the compression in the engine is what is the only thing holding the car from creeping. There is no such thing as an absolutely perfect seal on the compression rings, there is always some very small air leakage. Automatic transmissions have a pawl that drops into a gear in PARK that locks the output shaft preventing any rotation. (yes I consider it normal)
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35600 miles
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35600 miles
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
Thanks Frank.
I'm familiar with how & why an M/T vehicle left in gear holds itself stationary on a slope but this is the only M/T equipped vehicle we've owned (at least 15 to date), that has exhibited this behavior.
Our other car currently, a 1995 Civic (now close to 18 years old) holds entirely with the M/T in gear on the same slope and it has close to 200,000 miles on it.
You would think it might slip before a 2009 Versa with 10k on it might.
I'm familiar with how & why an M/T vehicle left in gear holds itself stationary on a slope but this is the only M/T equipped vehicle we've owned (at least 15 to date), that has exhibited this behavior.
Our other car currently, a 1995 Civic (now close to 18 years old) holds entirely with the M/T in gear on the same slope and it has close to 200,000 miles on it.
You would think it might slip before a 2009 Versa with 10k on it might.
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
I wonder if it the result of the variable valve timing (VVT) on this engine that has basically adjusted the intake camshaft angle such that some valves are slightly open. Maybe it is similar to a compression release system for cranking and as soon as the engine speeds up the oil pressure changes the camshaft angle. That may explain why the hot engine with oil pressure has left the camshaft angle such that all the valves are closed solid. See page 49 of the EM section where the figure shows the adjustable sprocket gear on the intake camshaft whereas the exhaust is a standard fixed sprocket gear.
I do believe it is a function of the intake valve timing from the VVT system.
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35.6K miles
I do believe it is a function of the intake valve timing from the VVT system.
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35.6K miles
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
Frank,
I just had a chance to review page 47 and noticed the different sprocket but how is it you know it's adjustable?
Just from how it's drawn?
Also, just noticed for the first time you also have the 6 speed M/T. Have you ever experienced this creeping when cold?
I just checked the owners manual (Version C11-D) and sure enough it instructs to 'not use the gear shift in place of the parking brake' and when realeasing the brake, 'place the shifter in the neutral position' (page 5-23)
Then on page 5-27, it gives specific instructions on parking on slopes. In addition to applying the handbrake it says to place the M/T in reverse if downhill and in 1st if uphill. Not that I now plan on ever relying on the M/T only but since I back into my garage, I will see if reverse will hold when cold as I don't think I've ever tried it.
Sounds like your assumptions are entirely accurate regarding VVT, any chance you moonlight as a Nissan technician?
Thanks again!
I just had a chance to review page 47 and noticed the different sprocket but how is it you know it's adjustable?
Just from how it's drawn?
Also, just noticed for the first time you also have the 6 speed M/T. Have you ever experienced this creeping when cold?
I just checked the owners manual (Version C11-D) and sure enough it instructs to 'not use the gear shift in place of the parking brake' and when realeasing the brake, 'place the shifter in the neutral position' (page 5-23)
Then on page 5-27, it gives specific instructions on parking on slopes. In addition to applying the handbrake it says to place the M/T in reverse if downhill and in 1st if uphill. Not that I now plan on ever relying on the M/T only but since I back into my garage, I will see if reverse will hold when cold as I don't think I've ever tried it.
Sounds like your assumptions are entirely accurate regarding VVT, any chance you moonlight as a Nissan technician?
Thanks again!
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
JPS48
Thank you for the note. I had read about the variable valve timing in the past and was curious about it so your question made me look up some more information about it. I also had a funny experience about a year ago when trying to start the car. It kind of backfired at the beginning and then just seemed to crank fast as if there was no compression for a few seconds. I turned the key off waited a few seconds and tried again and it started. It has never happened since (knock-on-wood). In the company where I worked they were very emphatic about using the emergency brake so it is a habit that I have gotten used to so I have never left the car without the emergency brake applied.
Growing up as the oldest son I always had to help my father with the family cars while my brother got to play with his friends. At that time I resented the fact my brother could play with his friends while I helped my dad. Now I realize what a blessing in disguise it was since I can do all my own work on the cars, engine, transmission, painting etc.. Now a timing belt change costs me only the parts whereas my brother has to bring it to a mechanic and pay for parts plus labor.
My biggest beef with the Versa MT-6 is that 6th gear is not an overdrive gear. At 70MPH I would like the engine to rev 500RPM less. My daughter just got a 2013 Elantra MT-6 and it has lower RPM. My summer MPG is 34-36 and my winter is 31-33. My overall MPG is 33.4 over 35700 miles.
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35700 miles.
Thank you for the note. I had read about the variable valve timing in the past and was curious about it so your question made me look up some more information about it. I also had a funny experience about a year ago when trying to start the car. It kind of backfired at the beginning and then just seemed to crank fast as if there was no compression for a few seconds. I turned the key off waited a few seconds and tried again and it started. It has never happened since (knock-on-wood). In the company where I worked they were very emphatic about using the emergency brake so it is a habit that I have gotten used to so I have never left the car without the emergency brake applied.
Growing up as the oldest son I always had to help my father with the family cars while my brother got to play with his friends. At that time I resented the fact my brother could play with his friends while I helped my dad. Now I realize what a blessing in disguise it was since I can do all my own work on the cars, engine, transmission, painting etc.. Now a timing belt change costs me only the parts whereas my brother has to bring it to a mechanic and pay for parts plus labor.
My biggest beef with the Versa MT-6 is that 6th gear is not an overdrive gear. At 70MPH I would like the engine to rev 500RPM less. My daughter just got a 2013 Elantra MT-6 and it has lower RPM. My summer MPG is 34-36 and my winter is 31-33. My overall MPG is 33.4 over 35700 miles.
Frank 2009 Versa S sedan MT-6 with 35700 miles.
Re: M/T Doesn't Hold When Parked
Frank,
Thanks for the update. Funny what creatures of habit we humans are. You talk about how it is you use the handbrake without even thinking about it whereas I've never or rarely have had to use one. In fact with a previous vehicle we owned, a 2000 Toyota 4Runner I don't think we had ever used it such that in it's 7th or 8th year, I discovered after using it, they wouldn't release. Luckily it was easy to fix.
As for the revs, I agree completly but have found that many small 4cyl engines these days are actually designed to rev at fairly high rpm's at highway speeds. When the New Beetle first hit the market I came very close to buying a gas version until I noticed that at 65 to 70 mph, the tach was well over 3000 rpm (not unlike the Versa). For that reason I ended up buying the turbo diesel version which reved almost a 1000 rpm less at highway speeds. I only wish more manufacturers who offer very appealing diesels in other markets would bring them to North America. As you probably know diesels outnumber gas engines in most of the world and many manufacturers even offer more than a single diesel choice depending upon the model. I'm still convinced GM is to blame for the NA anti diesel mindset ever since their failed attempt with Oldsmobile back in the late 70's. Anyway. . . .
With respect to your mileage, can I assume your referring to U.S. gallons? If so, your numbers are pretty good compared to mine. I get between 33 and 35 (mostly city) on an imperial gallon which is 1/5th larger than a U.S. gallon. Perhaps that will improve with more miles, I'm not sure, but we continue to use our 17 year old Civic for longer trips since no matter how hard you drive it it never drops below 45mpg and often surpasses 50!
Thanks for the update. Funny what creatures of habit we humans are. You talk about how it is you use the handbrake without even thinking about it whereas I've never or rarely have had to use one. In fact with a previous vehicle we owned, a 2000 Toyota 4Runner I don't think we had ever used it such that in it's 7th or 8th year, I discovered after using it, they wouldn't release. Luckily it was easy to fix.
As for the revs, I agree completly but have found that many small 4cyl engines these days are actually designed to rev at fairly high rpm's at highway speeds. When the New Beetle first hit the market I came very close to buying a gas version until I noticed that at 65 to 70 mph, the tach was well over 3000 rpm (not unlike the Versa). For that reason I ended up buying the turbo diesel version which reved almost a 1000 rpm less at highway speeds. I only wish more manufacturers who offer very appealing diesels in other markets would bring them to North America. As you probably know diesels outnumber gas engines in most of the world and many manufacturers even offer more than a single diesel choice depending upon the model. I'm still convinced GM is to blame for the NA anti diesel mindset ever since their failed attempt with Oldsmobile back in the late 70's. Anyway. . . .
With respect to your mileage, can I assume your referring to U.S. gallons? If so, your numbers are pretty good compared to mine. I get between 33 and 35 (mostly city) on an imperial gallon which is 1/5th larger than a U.S. gallon. Perhaps that will improve with more miles, I'm not sure, but we continue to use our 17 year old Civic for longer trips since no matter how hard you drive it it never drops below 45mpg and often surpasses 50!