LS3, LS1, SR or RB for s13 vert?

[fnmadog]

Hello Nicoclub,
So I'm trying to figure out what to put in my 240. Right now I'm leaning towards the LS3, it has the powers figures I was look for right out of the box, but comes at a price. I added up 30k for everything doing it right, at least what i think is right. Second was the SR, but to hit the power numbers i wanted (350 to 400whp) was going to cost only 6k less than the LS. I've searched high and low for some good threads for a sr20 that was getting the numbers i was looking for but i couldn't find one that was cheap enough to make it worth the "investment". I really think the sr20 is just way over priced right now, 2 to 2.5k for a used engine is asking a bit much. great engine just dated. third i thought about the LS1, but again for just a bit more money i'll have an LS3, at least with the ls1 route it'd be easier to upgrade to an ls3 or would leave me abit of cash to put a stupid big blower on it or something, which would be fun to do. I was originally going to do the rb25 but that idea has pretty gone out the window, cause cost and parts availability. again great engine but dated and over priced. Plus i've got a 91' gtr in the garage. this is just my thoughts on this as i try to find the best way for me to do this build. oh yeah the point of the car is for weekend cruising, to the beach, to the mountains, empty road ways, and some track, mostly just fun cruising, blue ridge drives and so on, plus if it can't get sideways i'm wasting my time. so something i can beat on that can take it, i don't want to beat on my skyline..

I'll post my lists for the two to get some inputs on them. if i missed something large that's important please point it out. I want to make sure i'm budgeting right and conservatively. When i start the build i will look first for quality used parts, but they'll have to be a hell of a deal.

I'm also very interested in what you'd do. my budget 30k, but i want to finish well under so i can buy a new welder along the way. so given the options what your choice would be. not a fair question but still interesting to hear what others would don't given the same situation.

most importantly if you've done either one of these builds (similar of course they're all a little different with different goals), what bit you in the a$$? what mistakes did you make, what made you redo work, or what was waste of money or time? if you did it again what would you different? that's probably the most value info you could share.

I'm planning to start in a few months after my deployment, but i have to lay some concrete and build a shed first, so probably sometime around fall to winter, oct, nov. i should be putting a engine in. hope to finish by early next year.

Here's my list for the LS3 build. (sorry for the formatting its from google drive sheets!)

LS3 Engine E-Rod (New) 11000
T56 TREMEC 3100
LS3&T56 Combo 13300 (one or the other)

CTS-V Accessory Drive System w A/C (PS Pump, Alternator, AC, belts, pulley kit for LS3) 900
Bellhousing Adapter 660
MGW T56 QuickShifter 230
Spec Stage 2 Clutch 400
Flywheel Spec Billet Alum 410
Starter MSD DynaForce 300
Swap Kit Sikky (Motor Mount, Drive Shaft, Master Cylinder, Power Steering Line kit, Fuel Line Kit, Air Intake System) 2710
Front Sway Bar 300
Fuel Pump 300lph Deatschwerks 170
Fuel filter/regulator Fuelab FPR 60
Radiator Mishimoto 240
Rad fan Mishimoto 180
Rad hose Mishimoto 140
Wiring (LS erod into s13 chassis) 500
Exhaust 600

Suspension
5 Lug conversion 430
Coilovers 800
Tie rod kit Inner/Outer Circuit Sports 150
Rear upper control arm Circuit Sports 160
Rear lower control arm Circuit Sport 500
Front Lower control arm and Tension Rod Circuit Sports
Tie rod ends (kit should have them) 200
Rear Traction Arm 200
Drift Stabilizer Bars 200

Steering Knuckles Drift Speed
LSD 1.5&2 way 1200
Bushing Kit
Bushing kit 140

some of this might be over lapping, i know i'm missing incidentals like fluids and stuff. i forgot where i put the info for my breaks... i'll add that later.

Here's the SR build (twinscroll)
swap kit 1600
mounts 230
clutch pedal 180
master 20
slave 35
clutch 410
fmic 470
w/ hks pre-flange hotpipe
radiator 200
rad hose 25
electric fans 340
bov 300
airfilter 100
maf 150
intake man 300
wiring harness 700
drive shaft 400
fuel pump 110
fuel pressure regulator 120
fuel rail 300
waterpump 40
oilpump assem 200
valve cover gasket 25
pcv valve 20
timing chain 250
timing tensioner 0
front crankshaft oil seal 10

boost gauge
O2 Sensor
Oil Filter
Fuel Filter

Engine
sr20det 2500
aem ems s2 1600

Turbo
gtx2867r 1700
exhaughtman 1600
injectors 750 400

Suspension
5 Lug conversion 430
Coilovers 800
Tie rod kit Inner/Outer Circuit Sports 150
Rear upper control arm Circuit Sports 160
Rear lower control arm Circuit Sport 500
Front Lower control arm and Tension Rod Circuit Sports
Tie rod ends (kit should have them) 200
Rear Traction Arm 200
Drift Stabilizer Bars 200

Steering Knuckles Drift Speed
LSD 1.5&2 way 1200
Bushing Kit
Bushing kit 140

suspension and breaks are the same on both builds. some of the suspension overlaps because i haven't really decided on what to get, that'll be the third to last thing i do.
drivetrain, suspension/breaks, cage, then body work/paint

Well if you read all that thanks!

[centralcoaster33]

After spending a 30K budget, you may not feel like beating on it so much in public places. Maybe big coned parking lots or racetracks with safe runoff areas, but with trees, cliffs, curbs, power poles and mailboxes, maybe not so much on the street. Then again, maybe so. As far as engines and power, the V8's will have lot's of power and torque and that is out of the box, factory style reliability. So they have that going for them. I lean towards reliability myself. It's an opinion. Others will have different ideas. It just seems best when the fun doesn't have to stop for repairs, tunes, parts, whatever. Consider an axle upgrade for the extra power.

[wa-chiss]

As far as engines and power, the V8's will have lot's of power and torque and that is out of the box, factory style reliability. So they have that going for them. I lean towards reliability myself. It's an opinion. Others will have different ideas. It just seems best when the fun doesn't have to stop for repairs, tunes, parts, whatever.

+1

Squeezing that much power from a 4 cylinder VIA power adders vs straight forward bolt on's from a V8, you'll find the V8 to be more reliable. In the long run, with the extra need for repairs, tuning, higher cost of parts (Mostly JDM only), and longer down time (no off the shelf NAPA parts), you'll find the V8 option cheaper. Plus, with power on tap instead of waiting for boost........

[fnmadog]

yeah i agree. ls3 or ls1 is the way to go. as long as money doesn't limit me i'll be going for the ls3. i don't think the sr would have to hard a problem getting those numbers. i will miss the boost..

[PapaSmurf2k3]

LS engines are like Miatas.
Its always the answer.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

But yeah at 30k, you could get a C6 vette.
Could probably save some cash on the swap by getting a different diff. The one you've got is a little harsh for street use anyway.
You could also get a used LS3 I suppose. 11k is just for the long block?

[fnmadog]

I will look for used parts as i get closer to the build. I've seen a lot of used ls3s, it's just it will have to be a hell of a deal to go used. 11k is from the gm site, i've found a few others retailers selling it for 8k. but that comes with the erod, cats, and some other stuff. i also like to over estimate cost. i think if i do this right i'll be around 22k or so, but planning for 30k. but some of those used ls3s were going for 4 or 5k, without the erod, so i'll need to still purchase that (i have price checked that yet). and you really don't know what you're getting when you get a used engine. i'm sure it'll work and make great power, but where's my oil pressure going to be at? wants the condition of the top end? was the oil changed on time. i'd spend another 3k so i don't have to tear down the engine. maybe i'll buy two used ones, put on in the 240 then build the other, well if i had that kind of time..

I will take your advice and look into another diff, i need to do more homework on them, i can probably cut some cost getting more modest parts. But i do want the car to be track worthy.

as far as the vet option... well i wanna build it. i've helped with builds, but never built my own to this degree, and i like s13s betters, and i want rear seats for the kidos for those crusing days.. (no i'm not going to on the track with my kids in the car... yet)

funny thing, my dad has a miata in my garage right now.

ls3 erod kit:
(http://www.karlperformanceparts.com/p/1 ... swodtKMGPQ)

[fnmadog]

So after mulling it over and finishing some pricing I think I'm going to go for the LS3. Thanks for the advice given.

[broken40s]

Have you considered an iron block 6.0 5.3 or 4.8? Everything bolts up still, but at a fraction of the cost and only 100ish lbs heavier. Get a gen iv and it'll hold 1000 whp, factory, for a long time with proper tuning. Use the savings to get a new oil pump, cam, push rods, and springs, maybe.

I'd stay away from the ls1, the blocks flex and tend to spit rods after about 550, that is when you get bored and want to boost it.

CX racing swap kit will save some cash, too, to spend elsewhere and isn't a bad kit, just put some better bushings in it. Mines holding 750whp.