Lowering the fastback. What additional parts are needed for stock alignment???

[Guam180]

Hello again Nico,

Just like the title says, if I dropped my 91 s13 fastback on some tein basics, what else would I need to get the car back to stock alignment specs?

I've read in an old Project Car mag that they could not get the alignment to factory specs on their 240 project. I believe it was the front camber, but I don't have the mag in front of me at the moment.

The reason I am concerned, is because in the state of Hawaii, suspension mods are permitted, provided they stay within factory specs. So before I go dropping my car, I want all my ducks in a row...

So a little help please. I did search, but either there is nothing, or my word association sucks

[Gabes13]

_rear upper control arms - for rear camber adjustment_camber plates - for front camber adjustment

optional

_toe rods - for rear toe adjustment _tension rods - for caster adjustment

[Guam180]

Thanks, but are they neccessary? If an aspect does not drop out of factory specs, then I don't want replace it for the time being. I'm just trying to obtain factory specs.

Also, isn't there more to it than just camber, toe, and caster that the alignment shops look at?

http://www.240edge.com/manuals...l.pdf

If you look at the above link, it talks about steering inclination. Other things like that are what I think I need to look at as well. What will be thrown out of wack from lowering the car and what can I do to fix it. I'm not looking for adjustability.

[Gabes13]

when you lower a car, whether its an inch or 6 inches, the suspension geometry is affected. An increase in negative camber is expected when the car is lowered or the suspension is compressed.

Camber affects toe, but toe doesn't affect camber.

With that being said, when you lower your car, you'll automatically get negative, plust some toe (toe in?)

When I had lowering springs I had about -5 degrees of camber in the back and the stock arms and bolts could only correct it to -3 degrees. My toe was completely out of wack and there was no way it was going to be in spec without fixing my camber.

your alignment is only going to be worse with coilovers

If im not mistaken, Tein basics don't come with camber plates up front, so your camber will be off up front.

so thats why I recommended the camber plates for the front, and the rear upper control arms for the back.

the others were completely optional. you dont have to get them if you dont want to.

I dont know how much you want to lower your car, but tension rods could help your steering by offering more caster adjustability, but you dont need it if you dont want. same with the toe rods.

as for steering inclination, i have no clue what that is. sorry

[Guam180]

I understand what your saying. But I wanna know which parameters will be affected SO MUCH that it will require additional parts to get them back to FACTORY SPECS.

Now I'm no mechanic, but let's say the allowed variance for camber is between 1 and -3 degrees. My car before is at -1.5 and after is -2.5. Its still within factory specs, so I won't need that camber plate...

Now that just leave the question: Is there too many variances to really tell? Suspension Gurus please help.

*Hawaii boys please chime in as well.

[adrianfromthecastle]

I understand what your saying. But I wanna know which parameters will be affected SO MUCH that it will require additional parts to get them back to FACTORY SPECS.

Now I'm no mechanic, but let's say the allowed variance for camber is between 1 and -3 degrees. My car before is at -1.5 and after is -2.5. Its still within factory specs, so I won't need that camber plate...

Now that just leave the question: Is there too many variances to really tell? Suspension Gurus please help.

*Hawaii boys please chime in as well.

when you lower the car drastically, EVERYTHING will change, caster, camber, and toe... mostly camber and toe though. Not so much front camber will be affected, mostly the rears, due to the multi link geometry.

How low are you planning to go?

Most important parts to get a decent alignment are adjustable RUCAs, adjustable rear toe, and adjustable tie rod ends. Camber plates and adjustable tension rods would be nice, but they aren't that much of a priority as the others I mentioned... at least for a decent alignment so that you won't loose too much tire.

[Guam180]

Just as I thought, too many variables...

IDK exactly. I want it dropped a little, not slammed. But Hawaii's Recon Law is a pain in the @ss!! They're treating modified cars like grey market vehicles!

http://www.state.hi.us/dot/hig...6.pdf

If you read the link, it seems like they do everything short of a crash test.

Anyway, I just wanna leave an inch/ inch-and-a-half of wheel gap for suspension travel, not the "Grand Canyon" void I have now. And I'm partial to mildly agressive stances. You know, where the front is lower than the back...
Modified by Guam180 at 7:43 AM 1/27/2009

[adrianfromthecastle]

Just as I thought, too many variables...

IDK exactly. I want it dropped a little, not slammed. But Hawaii's Recon Law is a pain in the @ss!! They're treating modified cars like grey market vehicles!

http://www.state.hi.us/dot/hig...6.pdf

If you read the link, it seems like they do everything short of a crash test.

Anyway, I just wanna leave an inch/ inch-and-a-half of wheel gap for suspension travel, not the "Grand Canyon" void I have now. And I'm partial to mildly agressive stances. You know, where the front is lower than the back...

fyi, that pdf link you posted didn't work for me.

and an inch to an inch and a half of a drop isn't bad at all. With that kind of drop, you might be able to get away with the stock camber and toe bolts.

and to tell you the truth, front camber isn't affected as much as rear camber is when dropped. Mainly toe, which is the most obvious as well.

also, I'm curious as to why you're buying tein basics. lol.. I can't justify the price of those coilovers.

[Guam180]

Okay, I think I fixed the link.

As for the Teins, I'm just going with a "trusted" brand, that's cheap, and BASIC(?). I don't plan on doing any heavy tracking, maybe just try it out here and there. The car is mostly for DD, so I don't need anything crazy. And on another site for another car I have (a base Lancer), spring and shock combos were a complete no-go. What does everyone here on Nico use? I'm all for saving a few more dollars (while retaining quality).

I appreciate the advise. I figured if I wasn't going for an aggressive drop I wouldn't need the "sheh-bang" of suspension parts I'm on a budget so I want minimums...