Lowering springs....pros / cons

[oldmako]

Gennimens,

I am about to blow a wad of cash resurrecting the front end of my car. I need at the very least one strut mount. The existing struts have about 30K on them so I figure time for them to go as well. My springs are busted...so out they go. The list is long.

I'm an old fart who likes to blow down the highway at speed, and toss the car around once in a while. I love twisty roads and entrance/exit ramps but overall I am not big on flogging the car or "drifting". But mainly, this will be my interstate b0mber. 400 miles....4 times a month.

Kevin Falk has some Teins available, and I have talked to Joe about oleo's and rubber. It sounds as though stock struts will work with the Tein springs. I missed out on the KYB's, and don't care to blow 800 bucks on them at full fare. Snooze ya lose. I have a set of used, stock springs available.

So, your opinions please.....especially those who have lowered their rides.

Should I just put this mother back together the way Nissan intended and enjoy the cushy ride? Will my suspension thank me for that in terms of enhanced reliability due to system harmony? I cannot believe that making a two inch change in the ride height doesn't come at SOME cost. I'd rather not open a huge can o' worms and create additional problems...or future problems. As it is, I already drag my mud flaps on the speed bumps in my neighborhood, although that's probably due in part to my busted springs and worn bits.

Or should I use the Teins and factory struts and enjoy the handling improvements and squatty appearance? My only complaint with the car is that it's a bit squishy, and that may be due to the current poor condition of the front end. Of course, some more HP would be cool too...but that ain't gonna happen unless I buy an older Q.

I have already added some fat tires (245's) to help with grip.

Flame Away!!

Modified by oldmako at 9:23 PM 1/3/2008
Modified by oldmako at 9:25 PM 1/3/2008

[ddrumman]

Gennimens,...................................

Kevin Falk has some Teins available, and I have talked to Joe about oleo's and rubber. It sounds as though stock struts will work with the Tein springs. I missed out on the KYB's, and don't care to blow 800 bucks on them at full fare. Snooze ya lose. ................

Modified by oldmako at 9:23 PM 1/3/2008

Modified by oldmako at 9:25 PM 1/3/2008

Is this the set you're referring to being gone?

zer...99973

Too bad. That would have been nice!

[RAP]

No flames but

I am wondering what prompted you to buy a 1999 Q 45 with seemingly so many faults? Maybe you like a challenge ? ? ?

I recently purchased a 2000 for a really good price $ 8751.00 and there are more available if you shop around the country. I found mine thru Ebay from a private seller located in Florida. I'm in LA.

My car is virtually flawless at 92000 + plus a little. This is an eight year old car.

I can't really help you with your current question but it seems to me that your intentions for the considered repairs that your car needs and, will need, will make buying one with no problems a steal even at a higher price ? ? ?

Your situation might well be a good example of "not how to do it" for someone, in the future, contemplating purchasing one of these cars. Really the point of this post. Unless they are into working on cars and spending a lotta cash of course.

In any event, good luck.

JackJack

[Q45tech]

Mechanically or technologically, lowering offers zero advantages.Lowering the Center of gravity does reduce the transfer weight but not significantly:

21" vs 20" is 5% but this is mitigated by the track width to less than 2%.So 15-30 pounds less at worsecase highest G load on an already 1500 pound loaded tire.

The parallelism of the tie rods get out of whack which creates a toe bump steer weirdness in anything but a perfect glass smooth road.

Body roll is just that body roll and has little effect on weight transfer to the tire.................stopping body roll does nothing as the same weight is still transferred.

[TBrack]

Mechanically or technologically, lowering offers zero advantages.Lowering the Center of gravity does reduce the transfer weight but not significantly:

21" vs 20" is 5% but this is mitigated by the track width to less than 2%.So 15-30 pounds less at worsecase highest G load on an already 1500 pound loaded tire.

The parallelism of the tie rods get out of whack which creates a toe bump steer weirdness in anything but a perfect glass smooth road.

Body roll is just that body roll and has little effect on weight transfer to the tire.................stopping body roll does nothing as the same weight is still transferred.

On large, heavy, luxury cars it's purely cosmetic if you ask me.

[NY94J30]

No flames but

I am wondering what prompted you to buy a 1999 Q 45 with seemingly so many faults? Maybe you like a challenge ? ? ?

I recently purchased a 2000 for a really good price $ 8751.00 and there are more available if you shop around the country. I found mine thru Ebay from a private seller located in Florida. I'm in LA.

My car is virtually flawless at 92000 + plus a little. This is an eight year old car.

I can't really help you with your current question but it seems to me that your intentions for the considered repairs that your car needs and, will need, will make buying one with no problems a steal even at a higher price ? ? ?

Your situation might well be a good example of "not how to do it" for someone, in the future, contemplating purchasing one of these cars. Really the point of this post. Unless they are into working on cars and spending a lotta cash of course.

In any event, good luck.

JackJack

If you found one of the few second generation Qs which the previous owner was diligent enough to change over all the rubber components before selling his or her 8 year old car, and you were able to purchase that presumably otherwise immaculately maintained Q for that price, you are indeed lucky. If, however, your car bears the original rubber components (suspension and otherwise), I would say your car was purchased with the same flaws as the OP's, only you haven't taken the time or effort to address them.

[RAP]

If you found one of the few second generation Qs which the previous owner was diligent enough to change over all the rubber components before selling his or her 8 year old car, and you were able to purchase that presumably otherwise immaculately maintained Q for that price, you are indeed lucky. If, however, your car bears the original rubber components (suspension and otherwise), I would say your car was purchased with the same flaws as the OP's, only you haven't taken the time or effort to address them.

What rubber components ? ? ?

I don't understand what you mean. All I know at this juncture is that my car is tight, does not squeak, or squeal like worn out rubber would produce. Does not roll or sway or act strange in any way as worn or weak shocks/struts/springs would produce. The car spent it's life, prior to me, in Florida, driven by an older guy.

I also think that the "rubber" should and will last longer that eight years.

Since I just purchased the car, last month Dec. no, I have not addressed much of anything except how fine this car is. What's to address if the car is "perfect", for an eight year old car of course.

Take care. Jack

[maxnix]

Here's my take on the standard 2000 FGY33.

First off, when I drove t and ae models, I felt the automatic shock valving just went from stiff to harsh, so I passed on those. Maybe if I had driven on more twisties, I would have appreciated the automatic shock valving more.

The FGY33 was disconcerting because while roll stilffness is greater than the G50, Spring stiffness was far less. We had the splash guards, and the front ones were 3.5" off the ground. Easy to ground in a moderately high speed sweeper. We removed them.

The Teins that Falk sells are for a Y33, not a FGY33. While weights should be similar on the front end, it is a pretty significant drop and I watched Duy take his 1998 FGY33 over elevated entrances sideways all the time. Speed bumps in parking lots were a horror. Kindly, Duy sold me his Eibachs.

The Eibachs did drop the car about an inch or 1.5". Mor importantly, they did firm up the spring rate. I installed them with the KYB SR Specials (thank you onetongarage, Van), 18x9 +35mm OZ Super leggera (20.1 lbs.) and 255/40 Michelin PS2. The car was transformed, but mostly by the tires and wheels. I never did find the cornering limits wet or dry. They were way high.

The ride was a little choppy at first due to the shock's stiffness, but now at 20K+ miles, it is well modulated. In short, I would go this way again. The floaty undulations are gone and the ride is better modulated. You might have to find Espellir springs or something else. A few places claimed they still had the Eibachs. Rear camber is at -2°, about what large V8 BMW run. No additional inside wear.

In summary, it is not about lowering (if you don't go too far), but spring rate and shock rate matching. Oh, and you will most likely want higher performing tires to deal with the more sudden transitions the car can make if so modified.

[maxnix]

I also think that the "rubber" should and will last longer that eight years.

And you would be wrong not to recognize that the rubber has degraded significantly due to age, UV, salt, but mostly heat and ozone.

Why (and it is obvious upon disassembly) we always recommend replacing all rubber in a suspension system and the front strut bearings on the FGY33.

It all goes to your tolerance for wear and imperfection and your fondness for paying for repeat labor to "save" a buck.

[ddrumman]

...........The Teins that Falk sells are for a Y33, not a FGY33.......................... I watched Duy take his 1998 FGY33 over elevated entrances sideways all the time. ..................

What are their differences? Y33 vs. FGY33... I was under the impression that it was just semantics. Aren't they the same thing? Falk's Q was a 98T right? If Duy's Q is a 98 and a FGY33 then the whole thing is confusing

[maxnix]

Per many previoius threads, Y33 are JDM Cedrics and Glorias, never imported into the US. FY33 are Cima available with the VH41DE and is the basis for the US FGY33.

[ddrumman]

OK then.

Did the Glorias and Cedrics also use the VH41DE?

[TBrack]

OK then.

Did the Glorias and Cedrics also use the VH41DE?

No I believe they came with the VQ30DET (not sure about the turbo)

[maxnix]

No I believe they came with the VQ30DET (not sure about the turbo)

And VG30DE and VG30DET.

I think the VQ was used only in the base models of the FY33.

The point is, the Y33 never came into this country and never had VH41DE nor any other V8,

[TBrack]

the VQ30DET came in the following cars.

1995–2004 Nissan Gloria Y33,Y341995–2004 Nissan Cedric Y33,Y34

the VG30DET came in these

Nissan Cedric Y32 (1991-1994)Nissan GloriaNissan Cima FY31 (1988-1991)

[RAP]

And you would be wrong not to recognize that the rubber has degraded significantly due to age, UV, salt, but mostly heat and ozone.

Why (and it is obvious upon disassembly) we always recommend replacing all rubber in a suspension system and the front strut bearings on the FGY33.

It all goes to your tolerance for wear and imperfection and your fondness for paying for repeat labor to "save" a buck.

When the time comes to replace whatever, I'll replace. The car I bought spent it's life in FL driven by a 60 ? year old gentleman, well moneyed . He didn't shy away from the dealer either so I suppose if the car needed to have anything done it would have been done. The guy even did an oil change, had the rotors turned and pads replaced, at his expense, prior to delivery after I had sewed up the deal. I just received an email from the guy two days ago asking how the car was doing. Can you do better buying a secondhand car? ?

IT'S A SECONDHAND CAR. And it's perfect considering.

Furthermore I am not into "wringing out cars" so all those fine driving and feeling points I'll leave to those who revel in that activity. For what I am looking for, which is that the car does not "shake, rattle or roll", I am a happy camper.

I will, soon, start poking around underneath this fine vehicle and see about the rubbery state of affairs. I promise to repair and/or replace any and all parts that are affected by the "ozone" or lack thereof, O SUSPENSION MASTER



Take care and don't let the UV strike you where the sun don't shine.

Jack

[maxnix]

1.) When the time comes to replace whatever, I'll replace. The car I bought spent it's life in FL driven by a 60 ? year old gentleman, well moneyed . He didn't shy away from the dealer either so I suppose if the car needed to have anything done it would have been done.

2.) IT'S A SECONDHAND CAR. And it's perfect considering.

3.) Furthermore I am not into "wringing out cars"

4.) I will, soon, start poking around underneath this fine vehicle and see about the rubbery state of affairs. I promise to repair and/or replace any and all parts that are affected by the "ozone" or lack thereof, O SUSPENSION MASTER

1.) OEM maintenance programs are designed to get the car past the original OEM warranty so when the big stuff breaks, it is the owner's dime. Q45tech has pursued a more aggressive than OEM preventative maintenance schedule, and the results are here in his previous posts for all to evaluate. Nice to have a car with 330K+ miles that performs as good as new, expecially when it is a Q45. Even the decontented (but imporoved in some ways) FGY33.

2.) Considering for what you are willing to settle? Like Q45tech says, it's a shame that most second, third, fourth, etc. owners never experienced these cars when new to understand their capabilities. It's a personal choice. I can't recall anyone on any of these boards who regretted spending money on maintaining their car and didn't feel the rewards were worth the expenditure. It's a personal choice.

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

3.) So you have never experienced the need for a sudden high speed emergency manouver? Either you are blessed or way overdue.

4.) Seems to me, heat, ozone, salt air, wate, air and age are pretty inescapable if they are part of the environment. Vacuum sealed time capsule garage, perhaps?

You'll have fun when you begin the restoration. The best thing to do is to have all wear items on hand as you can compare "good enough" old to brand new. Rubber compliance changes drastically with age.