Lower Chain Cover Removal

[My_Q45]

Hey,

I'm trying to get the lower chain cover off my 94 Q45 & are at a snag with the end in sight! I have everything removed that needs to be, but the cover won't come off! Is there a trick to it or what. I know I should have A shop manual, but I can't locate one for a 94 Q. I bought one of those CD manual's from e-bay but that was worthless! I even checked the feed back & a person that got one for a 1st gen Q was going on about how great it was!

Thanks for any help......

[DAEDALUS]

Beat on the cover a little with a rubber mallet till you get a hollow clacking sound. You need to break the RTV seal. Be absolutely certain that all bolts are out, including the ones holding the cover to the upper covers and to the oil pan. Also, some of the bracket bolts thread into the block so make sure they're out too. Be very careful not to damage the head gasket when removing or installing the cover.

10 dollar question: Why are you removing the cover on your Q?

[My_Q45]

Thanks for the reply....

It took me 3 looks to make sure the all bolts were out! The 4 from the oil pan were the hardest to find! I have 2 reasons I am taking off the cover. First I know that only up to the 93's had the old guides, but a 94 had a failure due to old guides. My 94 must have been one of the first off the production line since the build date is 02/93. I have already been told it's a waste of time & I hope it is, but by some chance it has old guides installed I'd rather find out in the garage rather on the road. The second reason is I have had a loss of power from day one! I've read tons of posts about this & I have checked all the obvious things with not much success! I know it's unlikely, but maybe the chain is too loose.

[maxnix]

My 94 must have been one of the first off the production line since the build date is 02/93. ...by some chance it has old guides installed I'd rather find out in the garage rather on the road. The second reason is I have had a loss of power from day one!... I know it's unlikely, but maybe the chain is too loose.

Have to admire a person who will go that deep to research a problem. It will be interesting to see if any thing is revealed in the cam timing chain operation.

I wonder if mis-indexed cams could be responsible for the power loss? Perhaps cams that didn't advance would cause the power loss. Good chance to check the oil pump.

[Q45tech]

Remember the oil pressure is what advances the cams and a solenoid blocks the oil pressure passage at 4600 rpm to let the cams come back to normal relative position [idle and above 4600 rpm.

Unlike the J30 which seems to sometimes have problems with VVT, the Q design is essentially built proof.

[911/Q45]

Double check the bolt behind the power steering pump that goes through the bottom front cover from the bottom into the driver's side upper front cam cover.

[My_Q45]

Ok

I got the cover off.... I did one last check to make sure I got all the bolts out & missed the one under the plate that comes off to view the tensioner on the passenger side. Does anyone have pics of either the old or new guides installed so I can make sure of which I have since there is plastic everywhere in there. Also, I noticed the passenger side chain is loose. I would guess about 2 teeth off. Instead of trying to tell you where it is, I attached a picture with a orange arrow where it is loose. If you can advise me on what to do about it, that would be great!

Thanks for all your help!

[maxnix]

The replacement guides are metal backed.

Check the oil port on your passenger side cam chain tensioner to see if it is unobstructed. Usually it is reported that chain slap is quite noisy if the tensioner is inoperative. Do you see any gouging of the block?

I wonder if it is stretched, although it seems too early with proper oil changes.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t

[My_Q45]

Everything inside there looks like it's in good condition. There's no gouging of the block & the oil port is unobstructed. The engine was never noisy & since I have had it, it's had frequent oil changes. Now back to the guide issue. All the guides have plastic contacting the chain backed by metal. If anyone does have a pic, please post it.

[DAEDALUS]

The chain won't necessarily be tight. The crankshaft pulls the chain, the chain pulls the cams. When you shut off the engine it's entirely possible for the cams to spin another 45 degrees past the crankshaft. Turn the crankshaft a bit and the chain will straighten out. You have to pull the rocker cover to verify timing. If you don't mind counting links, you might be able to get away with just pulling the top front timing cover to save some labor...maybe. If the straight guide looks the same as it does in your diagram, then you have the old guides. The new guides are nylon-lined. The old ones didn't have any metal on the straight side. Sounds like yours are new, but consider replacing them anyway depending on wear, or maybe the tensioners.

[Q451990]

My_Q45

Do you have a digital camera? If so you might take a few pics and post them here so someone could look and see if you have the new guides. To my understanding, the old guides were all plastic, and the new ones are like you describe - metal with plastic coating on the areas that touch the chain.

Heath

[DAEDALUS]

Here's a pic of the new style guide installed on the passenger side:http://home.socal.rr.com/robverna/DSC00086.jpg

The straight guide is a 2-piece design on the newer ones, vs a one-piece for the older stuff.

[forecast]

the easiest identifer for the new guide design is the two piece guide. Notice in the photo from Dadelus that the tight side chain is "sandwiched" between two pieces, one is plastic on the inside of the chain loop and other plastic backed by metal on the outside of the chainloop.

The early Q design just had no sandwich design, just a single piece. The plastic used was white (although probably stained to a brown)

dan

[DAEDALUS]

I've never heard that before. What's your VIN #? The old guides I've seen pulled from 3 Qs were all black. Even color all around, even on the fracture surfaces. Looked like the exact same material as is used on the new guide liners.

[My_Q45]

Good News!

My guides are the updated set! Thanks for the pic Daedalus. The only problem is the slack on the passenger chain. I rotated the crank a little & the chain tightens then loosens then makes a chain slap noise. I can understand if the engine is on & turning the chain fast enough it would pull the slack & the noise won't be there, but would my timing be off as well?

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread!

[forecast]

no problem with the chain going slightly slack.

It's normal and okay - the run head on the head cams is due to the lobes being pushed by the valve rocker and turning it ahead. At even low speed (idle) this doesn't happen.

If you're concerned about the timing really being off, you'll need to pull the valve covers and check the timing marks.

I just last week threw away the last bits of my timing chain. I saw the color was white since the passenger guide was in thousands of tiny pieces in the pan. Still when I drain the oil from my changing pan, occasionaly a chip or two falls out.

I photographed the bits pieces, I'll look around for them.

VIN# JNKNG01C3LM005439

dan