Loud knocking and smoking

[mahmudb]

I washed my 03' M45 yesterday and it sat over night and I tried to start it up today and it sounded like a diesel. Also alot of black smoke was coming out so I turned it off immediately. I then had it towed to my dealer. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this before. The good news is that I have the Infiniti extended warranty. TIA.

[F1SportsFan]

Good luck with the new engine! Be glad you have the extended warranty!

[digiboy]

When you went to wash it, did you move it a short distance like from garage to driveway?

[mahmudb]

Yeah I did move it and it was running fine then. It sat overnight, I drove it a couple of days before I washed it from Chicago to St. Louis(300 miles).

Here is a little update though, the dealer called me and told me that it was low 2qts of oil and they are going to be contacting Infiniti to see what to do. Apparently the engine is still covered under the factory drivetrain warranty so I won't have to pay my deductible. I'll keep you all updated on what happens.

[szh]

Here is a little update though, the dealer called me and told me that it was low 2qts of oil and they are going to be contacting Infiniti to see what to do.

Yikes! We all got keep checking our oil on a regular basis, folks! Never let it get that low ...

This is my normal modus operandi ... I check tire pressure at least every other week. Add, I check all fluid levels every 1000 miles ... which is about once a month.

Z

[digiboy]

I suspect that oil is not the problem here. You probably flooded your engine when you moved your car to wash it. I bet it was cold when you moved it - ran the engine for about 10 seconds an turned it off. That left too much fuel in the engine and when you went to restart it, the fuel/air ratio was too rich and caused the smoking an knocking.

"- black smoke means the engine runs very rich - too much gasoline goes to the engine which most likely means there is something wrong with fuel- or ignition system. For example this may happen when one or two cylinders misfire." http://www.fastautosales.com/c...e#b16

I hope you trust your mechanic. Doing an oil change won't hurt and shouldn't cost you more than $25 - can't hurt after all. Make sure you tell your mechanic that you moved the car just a little bit so you could wash it to help him diagnose the issue.

[busaboy]

It is the crappy engine design in the M45. Mine has done this multiple times. Never start the engine for a short period of time and then let it sit. If you start it, let it run until the oil temp starts to rise.

I have not figured out if the oil pump loses prime (Yikes) or some lifters go dry. Either way it is something a modern engine should never do even if it is 2 qts low. Mine uses oil so being down 1 qt is not unusual.

Nissan really F'd up when they designed this engine. My 99 Q45 and my Titan never do any of these things. My Q could go 5,000 between oil changes and did not use oil even at 160,000 miles on the clock. My titan is 5 years old and only has 16K miles on it. I let it sit all the time for long durations.

[mazz]

same thing has happened to me with 1994 1998 2002 q45and this m35 washing the car drive 10 seconds and park itnow i let it run a minute or two before shutting downv8 v6 same thing

[saeedakobiakov]

good to know, never happened to me yet.

[qship96]

Owners fault to allow engine to get 2 quarts low on oil......these VK45 are known for eating oil,why you need to check/top off weekly.

At 220,000 miles my VH45de uses 8-9 oz of oil every 3,000 miles, just topped off 8.5 oz today after going 3075 miles on this oil change

[Nismodood]

you might try running fuel injector cleaner if its not burning oil. theres a tsb with the 2002 Q45, that has the same engine, about carbon buildup on the valves causing this noise. the fix is pouring injector cleaner in the tank. it looks like that bottle from Chevron Fuel system cleaner. it only happens with the engine is cold once the engine warms up and you can also rev it to get rid of the carbon and noise. But also check the oil level before revving etc.

[mahmudb]

Thought I'd give an update on my engine. Just got the car back. The paper work states that when they removed the old engine they found that the cam bearings were scored. Also they said that when they did the compression test that it had a very low compression. So they replaced the engine. They also said that the O2 sensors were messed up when it was smoking so my extended warranty covered that. The car is definitely quieter than the old engine and it definitely has more power but I haven't gotten to try that out cause I don't want to push it hard in the breakin period.

They said that the engine replacement would have cost me 9k+ if I didn't have a warranty.

[busaboy]

Pretty pathetic that Nissan has had to replace so many of these new V8 engines. The Engineers who designed this thing should be shot and managment should be fired for not ordering a major redesign back in 2002/2003. There is definitely a serious problem with this engine and Nissan is hoping most engines will be out of warranty. At this point I am just going to run mine until it has lost most of it's value and dump it. I have no stomach for getting an engine changed. I am using about 1 QT per thousand miles. Good thing oil is cheap.

[SteveTheTech]

I'm glad to hear you got your situation resolved with no out of pocket expense.

Oil consumption is not uncommon in V8 luxury cars, I know from working on Benzs they consume oil, and a cloud of blue smoke is not uncommon and some knocking may be noticed. They also take 12 qts of oil so if you burn one or two it's not too bad. I have seen a few Lexus LS models also do this and I know from a co worker that worked at Caddy that they allow 1qt ever 1,000 miles on some Northstar engines. Some consumption is not uncommon as the M and Q owners can tell you, there is no design flaw at least from the perspective of the engineers, and I have seen many of them last to at or near 200K with proper maintenance and care(this is for the newer models, the old models I know they are different but I am not talking about those, simpler times).

A perfect example of this is this week I had two cars same year and even production month both with similar mileage and one knocked like hell and the other was quite, IDK what the differences in maintenance history were (not taken to an Infiniti dealer for service). Many of the engines I have seen with this concern either have no warranty or extremely neglected service/abuse and are allowed to go beyond a point of repair.

I would think that if anything it has to do with the oil rings and there is no practical fix for this it is more of the design perspective of a luxury V8. I am not going to participate in a discussion about a design flaw all I am saying is that it is not solely the companies flaw as I feel there was a purpose (I don't know what it could be) to this, in the minds of the Japanese engineers behind engine development.

[busaboy]

Some of your comments are right on, but the multiple times my car has had an oil circulation issue on start-up is inexcusable. My C5 Corvette was a real oil hog. I blame that on the slipper pistons and pathetic oil ring set-up used. The M45 engine uses a similar setup. Trying to get high HP and lower parasitic engine losses has caused oil use problems. Unfortunately for the M45, the gas mileage is pathetic and the engine output nothing special by todays standards. I am lucky to get 20 MPG on the highway. At least my C5 got 25+. I wish they has used different pistons and rings in both cars.

I bought the car with 24k miles. I wish I had seen the prior owners service history before buying. He had the same issue pop up that made him send the car into the dealer for. I am convinced that the engine loses either oil prime or loss of oil pressure to the valve train during startup under certain circumstances. I can easily re-produce the problem if I start the car for a very short interval after sitting for a few days and then let it sit over night. Upon staring the next day all hell breaks loose.

I also find it odd that the engine will knock like crazy if I nail the throttle before the engine temp gets up to operating range. I swear the ECU totally ignores the knock sensors until the proper temp has been reached. When I first got the car I ran 93 octane. 10k miles later I ran 89. I have been using 87 octane for over a year an I have not seen any downside once the engine gets up to temp. I was worried that the constant 90+ temps in FL would be an issue, but no problems so far. I swear since running 87 octane, the miss and idle problems I used to get every so often have dissapeard. I have not used any fuel additive in a year.

[szh]

Using 87 octane in a car designed for 91 is going to cause problems in the long run - including with the occasional bad gas that does not even reach 87! I don't understand your reason for doing this. If "cost", then this is false economy, since the "added" cost, for most driving, is less than $15 a month (maybe even lower than that ... now that gas prices are down a lot). The engine is designed for premium ... treat it that way!

Yes, the engine burns oil when not broken in properly, but this is not a particularly unusual thing in high-performance cars nowadays. Many cars exhibit this, and the M45 engine is, unfortunately, prone to it as well.

If you use less than 1/2 quart every 1750 miles (measured halfway between changes), then this is not a big deal.

Use BG-44K as a preventative measure just before every oil and filter change, and the engine will be a lot happier all the time. Lots of WOTs help too (and are fun regardless ).

Running the engine for a brief while and not allowing it to get up to temperature is a sure method to create problems, I agree. So, like the Doctor says when you ask him "it hurts when I hit my head": "Stop doing it!"

Z