Your symptoms sound very much like an engine that can't exhale. I wouldn't let that cat go very long if it's rattling, N/I engines are all Miller-cycle and if the cat melts, the exhaust valves will inhale the debris. That's 100% fatal, bye-bye engine.Dxta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:18 am2. Can a partially clogged catalytic converter on the exhaust manifold at the drive side cause all these problems?
Could it be that the exhaust manifold catalytic converter is blocked, and that's why I'm getting a loss of power, and the rattling kind of noise at the passenger side each time I step hard on the gas?
If that's the case, I might just remove the exhaust catalyst, to inspect it.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:08 amYour symptoms sound very much like an engine that can't exhale. I wouldn't let that cat go very long if it's rattling, N/I engines are all Miller-cycle and if the cat melts, the exhaust valves will inhale the debris. That's 100% fatal, bye-bye engine.Dxta wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:18 am2. Can a partially clogged catalytic converter on the exhaust manifold at the drive side cause all these problems?
Could it be that the exhaust manifold catalytic converter is blocked, and that's why I'm getting a loss of power, and the rattling kind of noise at the passenger side each time I step hard on the gas?
No, as long as you can keep it from throwing codes then you shouldn't have issues. Healthy cats don't actually generate much backpressure compared other points downstream, so the engine should run fine without them.
Thanks for the response.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:18 pmNo, as long as you can keep it from throwing codes then you shouldn't have issues. Healthy cats don't actually generate much backpressure compared other points downstream, so the engine should run fine without them.
Mufflers and pipes are pretty hard to clog, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to shake it out and dump whatever might be in there for inspection.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm trying to remove the exhaust system today to inspect the muffler.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:18 pmMufflers and pipes are pretty hard to clog, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to shake it out and dump whatever might be in there for inspection.
Keep in mind that your long term A/F-alpha (LTFT) will be all screwed up on the side that can't breathe. Some of that "up to temperature" behavior may have been the ECM realizing it could breathe again once it reached closed-loop operation, then unscrewing some of the bad adjustments it had to make.Dxta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 amWhen I started the engine without the exhaust, I noticed that the driver side exhaust manifold outlet was breathing out properly, while the passenger side was not commensurate with the breathing (flow of the driver side). It was gradually when the engine started getting to operating temperature, that suddenly, the passenger side breathing equalised like the driver side. So from this, it could mean that the passenger side exhaust manifold is partially clogged, and only tends to breath well, when the temperature of the engine gets to operating temperature.
I think you're right with the LTFT here. Checking on my scan tool on the live data, I can see that it's only the STFT that's in the -2.3% or so, while the LTFT remains at zero without switching.VStar650CL wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:07 pmKeep in mind that your long term A/F-alpha (LTFT) will be all screwed up on the side that can't breathe. Some of that "up to temperature" behavior may have been the ECM realizing it could breathe again once it reached closed-loop operation, then unscrewing some of the bad adjustments it had to make.Dxta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 amWhen I started the engine without the exhaust, I noticed that the driver side exhaust manifold outlet was breathing out properly, while the passenger side was not commensurate with the breathing (flow of the driver side). It was gradually when the engine started getting to operating temperature, that suddenly, the passenger side breathing equalised like the driver side. So from this, it could mean that the passenger side exhaust manifold is partially clogged, and only tends to breath well, when the temperature of the engine gets to operating temperature.
One thought I had on this is that you have a compression issue when the engine is cold and it takes the engine getting up to temperature for everything to seal right and have some flow going like it should. If you do have a borderline seal issue then I could imagine it being a problem under hard accel with suddenly losing compression on one or more cylinders and becoming that loss of power you mention. I know you said you already rebuilt the engine, but to me that just makes it even more likely on what I am thinking here. Piston tolerances are set to within a couple of thousandths of an inch, so if the slightest bit of measuring was off or if the proper care was not taken then something could easily be wrong inside the engine. You also said you have replaced the cats before a couple of times, and yet now when you take the exhaust off you already see fragmented pieces of the news ones? Seems strange unless the engine is blowing out a lot of unburned fuel due to some sort of issue. That is known to cause quick Cat death.Dxta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 amSo today, I removed the exhaust system, just from the Y-section, to the tailpipe. When I shook it, it was like making some rattling noises in it. I was able to remove awhole lot of fragmented pieces of the catalytic converters, and powdered stuffs.
When I started the engine without the exhaust, I noticed that the driver side exhaust manifold outlet was breathing out properly, while the passenger side was not commensurate with the breathing (flow of the driver side). It was gradually when the engine started getting to operating temperature, that suddenly, the passenger side breathing equalised like the driver side. So from this, it could mean that the passenger side exhaust manifold is partially clogged, and only tends to breath well, when the temperature of the engine gets to operating temperature.
I'm planning on removing the exhaust manifolds tomorrow, to inspect.
Im just getting tired already, but won't give up. I'm trying to take a look at the timing chains here. Appears the passenger side may ha e timing chain issues, or slack. When I start the engine when cold, you hear rattling sounds from the passenger side, before it stops, and sometimes when I press hard on the gas when I need more power, ascending a hill, or so, you get to hear that rattle also. Why do you think this could be?EniGmA1987 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:48 amOne thought I had on this is that you have a compression issue when the engine is cold and it takes the engine getting up to temperature for everything to seal right and have some flow going like it should. If you do have a borderline seal issue then I could imagine it being a problem under hard accel with suddenly losing compression on one or more cylinders and becoming that loss of power you mention. I know you said you already rebuilt the engine, but to me that just makes it even more likely on what I am thinking here. Piston tolerances are set to within a couple of thousandths of an inch, so if the slightest bit of measuring was off or if the proper care was not taken then something could easily be wrong inside the engine. You also said you have replaced the cats before a couple of times, and yet now when you take the exhaust off you already see fragmented pieces of the news ones? Seems strange unless the engine is blowing out a lot of unburned fuel due to some sort of issue. That is known to cause quick Cat death.Dxta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 amSo today, I removed the exhaust system, just from the Y-section, to the tailpipe. When I shook it, it was like making some rattling noises in it. I was able to remove awhole lot of fragmented pieces of the catalytic converters, and powdered stuffs.
When I started the engine without the exhaust, I noticed that the driver side exhaust manifold outlet was breathing out properly, while the passenger side was not commensurate with the breathing (flow of the driver side). It was gradually when the engine started getting to operating temperature, that suddenly, the passenger side breathing equalised like the driver side. So from this, it could mean that the passenger side exhaust manifold is partially clogged, and only tends to breath well, when the temperature of the engine gets to operating temperature.
I'm planning on removing the exhaust manifolds tomorrow, to inspect.
+1. If it's eating cats and timing chains among other unexplained failures, chronic rich-running from ground gremlins is entirely possible. Check the grounds the right way, too (there's only one right way, and it isn't your eyes or an ohmmeter):PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:34 pmFinally, check your engine grounds. Make sure they aren't corroded or anything. I've had some really weird stuff happen when grounds go bad.
Thanks. I'm in the process of opening the valve covers, timing chain cover today. Anything observed, would communicate over here.PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:34 pmSome good comments/directions in here already, but I think you should be able to pop off the valve covers with the engine at top dead center and check the position of the cams just to verify base valve timing.
The rattle could either be a lazy tensioner, or bad tensioner/guide/super worn chain slapping around in there. Or it could be piston slap
I can't remember if the crank angle sensor gap is adjustable on these cars, but if it is (or there's any play available), you should inspect it. Also look for any shmoo on the sensor or the wheel that could cause funky readings.
Finally, check your engine grounds. Make sure they aren't corroded or anything. I've had some really weird stuff happen when grounds go bad.