Looking to get my first welder

[float_6969]

Yea, not a bad looking weld! Well I won't talk as much smack on flux cored anymore, LOL.

[metalmagician]

A good welder can make any weld look good. I would like to clear up a couple things on this post that people seem to be questioned. Feel free to correct me if I get something wrong. Flux core is basically mig welding that shields itself instead of using gas. It has the most penetration and I personally would not recommend it for sheet metal but it certainly can be done. Mig is of course the easiest to use and yes is also a pain to set up. Stick welding is less expensive, easier to prepare, and better to use in all situations, however it can be very difficult to weld. alot of people say that low hydrogen rods (7018, 6013, etc) should be stored in a rod oven at approximately 212degrees to keep all moisture out. while this is true to code on the pipeline it isnt always necessary. when welding the rod heats up it vaporizes moisture so for personal use just keep them in a warm, dry place. you can weld sheet metal with the right electrodes. for 18 gauge i use 5/64 6013 set at 30 amps. I also use stick welding for my exhaust. you can weld stainless steel but not aluminum. they do not make aluminum welding electrodes for stick. you can also weld very thick metal. and, of course tig welding is the best to use since there is minimum penetration and looks really pretty. you can weld almost all metals with tig but it is extremely hard to use and very expensive.

what does a pipe welder make around if you don't mind me asking? I'm going to school for welding and am just curious of the career and money possibilities

What type of welding are you looking to do? I use smaw on all pipe sizes and all positions going downhill. Depending on the company and what you are doing you can make a good living. An average pipe welder that is employeed by a pipeline company such as "Buckeye Partners LLC" will probably make in the 50k range. but thats average. If you are better than an averaged certified welder the skys the limit. I know welders making 6 figures in the pipeline industry but they are older and getting ready for retirement. its time for us young kids to take control. If you work at it and do your ablsolute best on every weld then you will easily live very comfortably. you want companies looking for YOU. that is how you "survive" in this business. Its all about patience. it wont happen overnight for sure but it will happen if you are determined. Im still new to the business and im not a master of the art either so I still have alot to learn as well. Just passing to you what ive learned

[s14Geoff]

Thanks alot for your reply it had lots of good info! I've been thinking a few different routes that I've read on and the one I'm leaning towards right now (though nothing is deadset) is joining the Navy as a Seabee Steelworker for 5 years after my 2 year degree to get lots of good job experience. I'm not sure the type or job occupation welding I want at this moment but I figure after a few years I'll know what I want though the dream to me would be to work in a fabrication shop for cars and stuff.

[metalmagician]

Yea man that's my dream. Best opportunities for that are on the west coastI

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Feel free to correct me if I get something wrong.

I could be wrong, but it seems like you are using the word "penetration" when you should be using "heat affected zone"(?).

Flux core is basically mig welding that shields itself instead of using gas. It has the most penetration

Penetration would be a function of heat settings on the welder, which is basically amperage going through the wire. The more amps, the more penetration. I could be wrong though. For all I know, Flux-core has the highest penetration efficiency... meaning it can penetrate more per given amp, although that seems to contradict the heat affected zone theory ha

[float_6969]

Thanks for the info metalmagician! I'm glad to know we have a tradesman on board.

[AZhitman]

AWESOME thread!

I'd also like to learn more about welding aluminum... like, say, 1/8" thick sheet stock (diamond plate)... who here has done it?

[metalmagician]

AWESOME thread!

I'd also like to learn more about welding aluminum... like, say, 1/8" thick sheet stock (diamond plate)... who here has done it?

I have. The hardest part about welding aluminum is its hard to tell when the metal has gotten too hot to keep its form. Unlike steel aluminum takes heat very well and spreads the heat transferred from the welding process all around the piece.then it gets too hot and a large area around the weld starts to fall. Where as if steel gets too hit while Welding you blow through in the concentrated area.

[metalmagician]

Feel free to correct me if I get something wrong.

I could be wrong, but it seems like you are using the word "penetration" when you should be using "heat affected zone"(?).

Flux core is basically mig welding that shields itself instead of using gas. It has the most penetration

Penetration would be a function of heat settings on the welder, which is basically amperage going through the wire. The more amps, the more penetration. I could be wrong though. For all I know, Flux-core has the highest penetration efficiency... meaning it can penetrate more per given amp, although that seems to contradict the heat affected zone theory ha

What I mean by penetration is how deep the weld bonds the metal. Where as heat affected zone is the area where the heat changes the metals properties. It is best seen when welding stainless steel. And yes you are correct about flux core being the highest in penetration efficiency. Thanks for the correction though you are completely correct in your statement

[AZhitman]

AWESOME thread!

I'd also like to learn more about welding aluminum... like, say, 1/8" thick sheet stock (diamond plate)... who here has done it?

I have. The hardest part about welding aluminum is its hard to tell when the metal has gotten too hot to keep its form. Unlike steel aluminum takes heat very well and spreads the heat transferred from the welding process all around the piece.then it gets too hot and a large area around the weld starts to fall. Where as if steel gets too hit while Welding you blow through in the concentrated area.

Interesting. What's it done with? Can you MIG it?

Side note, I was totally fascinated watching a team weld up this huge pipeline near our house several months ago... Is that what you do? These pipes were maybe 4' in diameter, and the rigs leveling everything (so the guy could get all the way around the pipes UNDER ground level) were super-impressive.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

What I mean by penetration is how deep the weld bonds the metal. Where as heat affected zone is the area where the heat changes the metals properties. It is best seen when welding stainless steel. And yes you are correct about flux core being the highest in penetration efficiency. Thanks for the correction though you are completely correct in your statement

10-4. We're on the same page then. It makes sense, flux-core doesn't have any gas constantly blowing on it (cooling it down), so more of your amps go into penetrating the metal.
I guess that would explain why I seem to be able to weld stuff fairly well with only my 110v flux-core welder. I usually torch it beforehand if I think it's on the thick side though.

I've always TIG'd aluminum, but I've seen videos where you can have some kind of flux-wire and just torch it together. I've never seen it done in person though.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWFuZukKxCM

[float_6969]

You can definitely MIG aluminum. You want a spool gun. Check the owners manual for your welder, there is probably a PN for the accessory. You have to use 100% argon and it definitely takes some getting used to. It does NOT weld like steel AT ALL. The head spreads like crazy, and as he said, if you over heat, you can get a HUGE area that melts and falls through. Another problem with MIG welding aluminum that I've found is that you can't just set up your machine and go like you do with steel. As the aluminum heats, the WHOLE piece heats up. What was a good feed/heat setting at the beginning of your weld is too much by the time you reach the end (of long welds, or multiple welds on the same piece). This is one of the reason most TIG welders have a foot pedal for heat control. It makes it REALLY easy to control the heat.

The spool gun is also a bit cumbersome and can make it hard to see your weld. You also have to "push" with a spool gun instead of "pull" and the angle that you hold the gun is important.

I've also played with aluminum solders. My experience with them is "meh". The brand I used wasn't great. It was something I picked up at the local welding supply store and it was a pain.

Keep in mind I'm in no way an experienced welder, so take my experiences with a grain of salt.

[Hijacker]

Don't forget that with a spool gun, you typically need an extra control box to bridge between your box and the gun. I don't know if there are any buzz boxes or cc/cvs that have internal control for a spool gun. I considered one of miller's spool guns at one point because it listed steel wire as a suitable line to run and I was looking for a cheaper alternative for mig on my cc/cv than a full box mig feeder, but i was informed by the local weld supply that was a fool's errand. Spool guns are notoriously twitchy at rats nesting they said. And they really aren't meant to feed steel regardless if miller says it can. It was kind of one of those "just because you can doesn't mean you should" type of situations.

A couple weekends ago, I was at my friend's house and had one of his buddies who used to work at NASA's Langley facility as a weldor weld up se reinforcements on my S14 subframe. We got to talking about TIG torches. He preferred thumb wheels for heat control versus the pedal, which I might kind of agree with. My foot has no finesse behind it, so I could see a steep learning curve on adjusting to one, where as my thumb would probably have more control even through gloves.

[float_6969]

That's interesting about the spool gun. I've run about 1/4 of a roll of aluminum through mine with no issues. I would NEVER run steel through it, as the drive rollers are plastic. Is far as the rats nest, it's no different than steel, if you have the heat too high, or the feed to low, the wire will ball up and stick to the tip and then you have a mess. As for the adapter box, I didn't have to have one with my unit. It was already setup to accept a spool gun, so I simply plugged it in and flipped a switch on the front of the box. If your box isn't setup for this though, I can't imagine it would be easy to run one.

[Hijacker]

My box isn't set up to directly drive it. I'd need to add a WC-24 Weld Control unit. My box is great 'cause it can do a ton of stuff amazingly well. BUT it's a money sink because all that stuff requires so much extra crap to run anything. The WC-24 brand new from Miller is $300+, a mig S-24A wire feeder is over $2000 new, but it's all plug and play with the CC/CV. I can directly run off the CC/CV stick and TIG. And the TIG has an option for lift start or scratch start.

The gun I had been looking at for steel duty was the Spoolmate 200 and Miller says it's rated up to .035" steel wire. The more research I did, though, that gun would have been a bad fit and a waste of money all around.

Ideally, I'm just gonna piece together a good TIG setup and just use that and forgo MIG. For the price it would take to set up MIG on my box, I don't think I would utilize it as much as I should. It would primarily be for quick tack welding and then follow up with better quality TIG welds behind it. I think I'd be better off with a second hand 120V buzz box for MIG at that rate.

[float_6969]

Ah, I think the spoolmate 200 might have steel drive wheels. (I have the spoolmate 100) Yea, for your setup, a spool gun kind of makes sense, but they're still bulky, and there is no getting around that.

Yea, if you just want a quick tack setup to go over with TIG a cheap 120V MIG would be perfect and cost you less. The only drawback to TIG (In my limited experience) is weld speed. TIG seems so much slower than MIG, but if you're not doing a lot of welding, then it won't really make a difference.