Looking for the best swap that fits my needs.

[iam0jacks]

I'm looking for 350-400hp budgets 4 grand. I have a ka24de with a leaking head. I can't decide weather I want to rebuild the ka with stronger internals and turbo it. Or do and engine swap with either lsx, 1jz, 2jz, or what I really want is a VQ35DE. I know I can do most of the work if I rebuild the Ka. But the vq would probably be more reliable. But If I went that route I'd have to pay someone to do it. I know that would cost well over 4 grand but if its worth it I will pay it. I know Im not going to get 350-400hp with the vq stock so I'm open to going turbo with it. I just need opinions. and I really don't feel like going sr20. Mainly because I think they are too overpriced compared to my other options. And theres only 2.0 liters displacement. Just seems weak to me. I'd really like some opinions here because where I live most people have never even heard of tuning cars let alone drifting. And I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to this.

[simmode1]

Ahhh the age old question of which swap... You will not get a VQ35 installed and running for $4000. VQ35 is about $7000+ by the time you finish, which is still just a little cheaper than LSx, RB25/26, 1/2jz.

With a $4000 budget you're pretty much restricted to KA-T or SR, IMO. It can be hard to find a decent SR nowadays as many of them are becoming high mileage & have likely already been pretty beat on. I would say buying a KA and building it for boost on the side is probably your most cost effective option.

But personally I would hunt for a good running SR for the sake of simplicity and purity. That's what supposed to be in there anyways. Both SR and KA-T can do 400hp, but why do you need that much? Overkill for alot of ppl, but either motor can do it. KA-T can be good if built/tuned properly, but I hope you have a another daily driver because none of these options are what I might consider to be reliable.

[iam0jacks]

Shoot. Yep, I drive my Truck daily because I use it for work. And I want around 400hp because me and my cousin are very competitive. he had his celica a got my rx8, he got a acrua rsx, I got my g4 eclipse. Now hes got him a 5.0 mustang 2008 model. And I've traded my eclipse for my truck. But this isn't the end of it!! After I bought this nissan He laughed! its a nissan he said!! he said it will never be worth more then 2 grand! I hate when that guy pulls into my work place and stand around his mustang waiting for people to start taking pictures... this rivalry dates back years....... whenever we both opened our first store together.... hate that ***hole ... Anyways!!

I had no idea the lsx and all those costed that much... I was thinking more around 4-5k??? And Another reason I want to stick with the KA is because I Already have a decent engine. With a clean rebuild it should come out like new right? And I won't have to pay anyone to tear it down to replace the internals. Another thing is fitment. I won't have to replace the driveshaft or do any fabrication. But I was wondering if there would be anything else I'd have to replace? I heard the trans on the ka wont handle 350-400hp very well?? What's the solution to that??

[simmode1]

Pffft! lololol

First off: There is no such thing as a 2008 5.0 Mustang. There was the 80's 5.0 with 200hp & 280ft/lbs. And now there is the 2013+ 5.0 Stang with 420hp. If your cousin has a V8 Mustang from 2008, then it is likely a GT with 4.6L engine making a lazy 300hp with an 800lbs weight handicap. They sound amazing but thats about it. You don't need a 400hp s13 to beat that. An SR running an OEM T28 turbo at about 12 or 13 psi with supporting mods should be more than enough.

Secondly: Yeah, man. Those swaps are crazy expensive. They will nickel and dime you to death. The reason the SR swap is cheaper is because it was designed for this car. Less to reengineer.

Third: The KA's transmission is a phucking beast. 500hp is not a problem for it. 500hp is also not a problem for the KA's internals, except for the rods. Should replace those if you wanna go past 350hp safely. As I've heard it, the SR's and KA's driveshafts are interchangeable, with very little modification. Unless you get a S15 SR with the 6spd trans...

If your current motor is in good shape then, go for it. Head over to the KA-T boards and get some advice and parts lists on prepping your engine for a T3/04e turbo. Capable of just under 400hp with redonkulous torque. Seriously, most stock Mustangs earlier than 2013 are small potatoes for even mild SR's or KA-T's.

[iam0jacks]

yeah... I thought about that... I wiki'd it. Its got a 4.6l and He's got a big 5.0gt Sticker running across the hood... Words can't express how much hate I have for him right now...
And I know! My old Eclipse could have smoked the mustang man, but no! This nissan is going to leave him far behind, I'm going to be doing laps around him. nobody f*** with my 240!
thats good to know, I don't want to have transmission problems in the future.. I'll have to go see some builds on ka-t boards. Ill start tearing down the engine next week. And getting everything cleaned up. The reason I dont want to go sr is just because the engine is so small. I don't see anything good about it. I know it comes stock turbo'd But paying 2000+ for one in good shape is not worth it. Id rather build the KA for the same price.

[simmode1]

I'm cool with KA-T's but you really shouldn't underestimate SR's. It's capable of good power & torque as long as you pick the right turbo. And personally, I think a professionally installed SR is more reliable then most DIY KA-T builds. A guy local to me has a shop specializing in 240's and sells turn-key stock SR swapped cars for about $5000 each. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car from him because I know it was done right the first time. Having that peace of mind & knowing I can bring it back if I have problems is worth alot to me.

On the other hand, he also loves building KA-T's and he did seven RB26 swaps last year.

[blkvrtswp]

Every single statement you made above about SR20DET is 100% wrong. Get over your irrational dislike based on ignorance.

"I hate hate hate SR's because of that f*** green valve cover. UGH! Green ? WTF Nissan?"

^^ This is how you sound to me.

[simmode1]

I used to be very pro-KAT until I blew my N/A KA and really started pricing out overhauling the engine & boosting it. At the end of the day, SR turned out to be the cheapest/simplest route to get me back on the road.

[krash]

Neither is "better" they both have ups and downs. I'll say that I don't think an SR swap is cheaper in the long run. The reason is, you have no idea whats going on with the swap you bought. Sure it might have good compression numbers. But that doesn't tell you whats going on with the bearings, gaskets, etc. You could luck out and get a really good SR, or not. Whenever I think about swapping motors (any used motor), I always add in the cost of a rebuild, either now or later. If I bought an SR, I'd want to rebuild it then and there so that I know everything thats going on with it.

So with my logic, the KA-T build comes out to be cheaper (again, I'm super paranoid about these things). KA-T is super fun and if you do it right you really have nothing to worry about. Theres no more guessing games and heresay like there was in 2005. So many people have done it, that the knowledgebase is wide and all the problems with building a KA-T have been encountered and addressed. I will say, for 400hp, I'd change the pistons as well as the rods. Stock KA ringlands like to go on vacation with high hp boost.

If you want some pricing, I'm about $1300 into my KA build right now (forged internals +machine work + bearings, gaskets etc) and the turbo stuff will likely cost me another $1400-$1500 bucks (if I can find a nice used turbo).

[blkvrtswp]

I disagree. IMO rebuilding engines (pistons / rods / bearings) is a very risky proposition, according to the numbers I looked at from Heavy Throttle. They rarely last - 50% of my customers who bought pistons/rods/bearings blew their 'rebuilt' engines within 1-3 years. Sub-par machine shop, improper assembly, bad luck - whatever the reason. Unless you NEED more than 400 WHP or your engine is blown, I view rebuilding as a huge mistake.

SR's don't need rebuilds. Buy a good engine and you will not have to rebuild anything. Now, good condition SR's today may be harder/more expensive to find, but KA's have almost guaranteed high mileage, and you cannot tell me that KA internals are stronger than SR internals - no way.

Bottom line: SR can handle more power safely without doing a risky and expensive internal rebuild. 400 WHP all day on an SR, no rebuild just a head gasket, no issues 5+ years later. Don't buy a roached junk beat on SR.

There is no way you can get safe, lasting 400 WHP out of a KA-T with out internals. End of story.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with KA-T using a low mileage engine, no rebuild, less than 350 WHP - great idea. It is the reliability of the internal engine work that is my problem.

[krash]

Saying that a rebuilt engine will blow is kind of a blanket statement. Rebuilding an engine isn't as scary as you make it out to be. A rebuilt engine is only as good as the time you put into it. You do the proper research, spend the money where it matters, and build it properly, theres really not much to worry about. Its a matter of doing things right.

You can totally do 400hp on stock internals with a KA, would I do it? no. But there are many people that have done it. I think the record for stock internal KA is 500whp.

[mechanicalmoron]

People might also be blowing those rebuilt motors because they're driving them really hard, pushing boost, etc: the same reason they had to rebuild them in the first place.

[Hijacker]

I disagree. IMO rebuilding engines (pistons / rods / bearings) is a very risky proposition, according to the numbers I looked at from Heavy Throttle. They rarely last - 50% of my customers who bought pistons/rods/bearings blew their 'rebuilt' engines within 1-3 years. Sub-par machine shop, improper assembly, bad luck - whatever the reason. Unless you NEED more than 400 WHP or your engine is blown, I view rebuilding as a huge mistake.

SR's don't need rebuilds. Buy a good engine and you will not have to rebuild anything. Now, good condition SR's today may be harder/more expensive to find, but KA's have almost guaranteed high mileage, and you cannot tell me that KA internals are stronger than SR internals - no way.

Bottom line: SR can handle more power safely without doing a risky and expensive internal rebuild. 400 WHP all day on an SR, no rebuild just a head gasket, no issues 5+ years later. Don't buy a roached junk beat on SR.

There is no way you can get safe, lasting 400 WHP out of a KA-T with out internals. End of story.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with KA-T using a low mileage engine, no rebuild, less than 350 WHP - great idea. It is the reliability of the internal engine work that is my problem.

Funny...my SR I rebuilt myself has been going strong for the past 6 years now with frequent flogging. That motor had been melted when I got ahold of it. Had to bore it out just to clean up the pitting and burning on the cylinder walls. I've rebuilt a ton of motors. Most Nissan. And never have seen one blow even under heavy usage. A mitsu V6 that was used in a friend's truck we towed all of our cars with. Countless SRs that have been flogged and raced on. Old L series putting out enough power to spin the tires all the way through third gear. It really just boils down to the monkey assembling the motor. If it's done properly, there's no difference than the factory assembly. Picking the proper machine shop to do your boring and head work is a plus too. The shop I used to use was an old Nascar shop that knew how to deal with Euro and Japanese motors. And we all know that picking quality parts plays a lot in it too. I have a feeling Heavy Throttle didn't gather information regarding what parts were "upgraded", and back when HT was around, Cometic was the only affordable company making SR metal headgaskets. And I have never trusted Cometic at all. Even with proper installation and head retorquing after break in, they can still leak.

Now, CAs. Those are a different story. I've yet to see one hold up for any length of time. They've always blown up on me regardless of how I treat them or they're rebuild state.

[crakin240]

Can't beat the KAT for bottom end and good 'ol iron reliability. But SR's are cheaper like they said. Also, you can get outright dumb with the power and rpm range.They are both great motors and I recently chose to stick with the Ka just out of sheer ease and less figuring out what to do. But SR would be next if my build goes south.

[simmode1]

Hey guys, I was just thinking about something this morning: With just about all of the low mileage SR's gone (except for 6spd S15 motors), do you think it's worth the great price of admission to just go RB25? Are we still getting low mileage on those? Are those less likely to need a rebuild than an SR, in your opinions? For sure, an RB25 will cost more to get running, but if it's less like to need a rebuild & will make over 400hp easier/cheaper, maybe that's worth reconsidering.

[BTL_nissan]

I disagree. IMO rebuilding engines (pistons / rods / bearings) is a very risky proposition, according to the numbers I looked at from Heavy Throttle. They rarely last - 50% of my customers who bought pistons/rods/bearings blew their 'rebuilt' engines within 1-3 years. Sub-par machine shop, improper assembly, bad luck - whatever the reason. Unless you NEED more than 400 WHP or your engine is blown, I view rebuilding as a huge mistake.

SR's don't need rebuilds. Buy a good engine and you will not have to rebuild anything. Now, good condition SR's today may be harder/more expensive to find, but KA's have almost guaranteed high mileage, and you cannot tell me that KA internals are stronger than SR internals - no way.

Bottom line: SR can handle more power safely without doing a risky and expensive internal rebuild. 400 WHP all day on an SR, no rebuild just a head gasket, no issues 5+ years later. Don't buy a roached junk beat on SR.

There is no way you can get safe, lasting 400 WHP out of a KA-T with out internals. End of story.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with KA-T using a low mileage engine, no rebuild, less than 350 WHP - great idea. It is the reliability of the internal engine work that is my problem.

I am very interested in where you have gotten your information regarding rebuilt engines... Its all about clearances and torque. A fresh bore, fresh deck and a turned crank gets you better than factory clearances. Factory Nissan clearances were garbage in the 90's yet still hold up to the beating. Saying this; Why wouldn't a correctly rebuilt ka/sr be a good idea? Simply turning the crank literally makes the engine stronger than factory. If it was such a sketchy act machine shops wouldn't have any business... and there would not be countless 350+hp cars on the road

End rant

[blkvrtswp]

Relax guys - I never said all rebuilding is destined to fail. Only 50%.

I get my information / data from sales records and conversations with customers for the 8 years HT was in business. If the rebuild is done right, it should be fine. The problem is it is NOT done right a large portion of the time for whatever reason.

What I have a problem with is advising people (especially newbs) that you should just go ahead and rebuild the engine, because it is "necessary" or "a good idea" on an engine that shows no reasons to rebuild. IMO it is NOT a good idea at all - especially for amateurs, even amateurs who are using a good machine shop.

When I am looking at cars for sale, "rebuilt engine with pistons and rods" makes me move on to the next one. That is not a plus for reliability ON AVERAGE.

[blkvrtswp]

"I have a feeling Heavy Throttle didn't gather information regarding what parts were "upgraded", and back when HT was around, Cometic was the only affordable company making SR metal headgaskets. And I have never trusted Cometic at all. Even with proper installation and head retorquing after break in, they can still leak."

Many customers bought full packages - pistons, rods, MHG. Good stuff like Eagle, Wiseco. I pushed Power Enterprise MHG heavily, I used to buy 80% of their incoming stock. Out sold Cometic 4-1.

"It really just boils down to the monkey assembling the motor. " - Ding ding ding. Winner!

Don't get me started on machine shops..... some are great, some are ***holes, some are sloppy and some ignore instructions.

[Razi]

Hey guys, I was just thinking about something this morning: With just about all of the low mileage SR's gone (except for 6spd S15 motors), do you think it's worth the great price of admission to just go RB25? Are we still getting low mileage on those? Are those less likely to need a rebuild than an SR, in your opinions? For sure, an RB25 will cost more to get running, but if it's less like to need a rebuild & will make over 400hp easier/cheaper, maybe that's worth reconsidering.

I've helped a few of my friends with doing RB25 swaps (2 are running, 1 is down but that's a long story), and I can't recommend them.
An SR swap we did was done over one weekend, the RB swaps took much longer.

And, If it's daily driven, you'll probably start to overheat in traffic when the weather is hot.
Anytime anything gets broken, you can't just run down to the store and buy a replacement part, so now you need to put in an order and wait a week.
The car will also be nose heavy, but some people don't care about that.

They're great motors, I like to drive cars with RB swaps, but I'd never put one in my car.

[krash]

RB is cool, but yea Razi covered most of it. As far as rebuild necessity, its just one of those things. If you know the previous owner of the engine and you know it was treated right and you know that its a good engine, wipe the thought of rebuild from your head. But if you're just buying a freshly imported swap from japan, thats when I start getting nervous. Getting parts kind of sucks and your weight distribution definitely suffers.

[simmode1]

Thanks for the input on the RB25, guys. But let me ask this: What about the value of the legit S15 SR w/6spd trans? These are probably the only low mileage SR's left due to their higher pricetag and the increased difficulty of getting the 6spd trans to work.

I really want 6spd in a 240, but I don't want the difficulty & expense of a VQ swap anymore. I know ppl say the SR's 6spd is weak, but Toby's held strong for years putting down 400hp... Some ppl will ask: Why do you want 6spd?

Becuz that shizz be baller.

How does swapping an S15 SR with 6spd trans compare price-wise to VQ35/RB25/1JZ/LSx? I mean, most shops will charge about $3500 total price for an s13/s14 swap... If the S15 swap is only a $1000 or so more, there may be some value there too since it may be less likely to need a rebuild so soon as well.

[daemonyk]

Indeed. Shift_6th = boss

If I may offer some internet-grade logic, fwiw.

Lets assume avg price for a decent SR20 is $2000. $3500 total cost means $1500 for the actual install and associated parts. S15 motorset + trans seems to go for ~$3500 ish, and I feel it's safe to assume that an S15 SR will cost at least as much as a s13 SR install - so around $5000 for a total S15 SR install. Which I think comes out cheaper than an RB25 (seems to cost 5-6k to do properly), has appx the same stock hp as an RB25, and would be newer than the typical R33 RB25. So at least at a glance, it seems like itd be worth a try.

That's just my guess.

[krash]

And honestly, I don't think the S15 transmissions are really that weak. Its one of those things where a few high HP dudes were probably hooning them and blew transmissions, and then everyone took that as prophecy. I'm sure they'll last as long as you need them to as long as you're not beating the total crap out of them.

The speed sensor is in the Diff though, so you'll need to figure that out

[simmode1]

Yeah, the speed sensor in the diff is really the biggest thing I read about the difference in using the 6spd SR. That and incompatibility with earlier drive shafts. For the diff, I'd just have to run the S15 LSD since it houses the required speed sensors. But then, you get the added benefit of a helical LSD, far superior to junky VLSD's that lots of us are used to running. Have to factor that into the pricing along with the driveshaft.
s15-sr20det-transmission-into-s13-coupe-t472124.html

[krash]

HLSD is really rad. I'm hoping to fit one into my vert one day