Looking for speakers...

Post by **marlin29311** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:05 am

So I recently began on my quest to redo my whole home theater/AV setup...

It began with my brother getting me an LG Blu Ray player for $100 for Christmas off Amazon's Black Friday deals...

Now I've bought this as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-...r=8-1

Cyber monday deal marked it down to $500...I got half off this beast!

New TV is looking to be the LG 47" LED -

http://www.amazon.com/LG-47LH9...r=1-1

Now...I need speakers.

I'm looking for low profile, smaller speakers. I don't want to do floor standing, and I'm going to run a 7.1 setup, and I'm not looking to break the bank (I'd like to stay under $900 with a Sub...)

Some current ones I've noticed:

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Aud...r=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-K...r=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-N...r=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-R...r=1-4

As you guys can see, I'm looking for smaller speakers that pack a good punch...I'm in a small/medium room, so I don't need big stuff, but I want clear accurate sound for BluRay's and for my Xbox 360.

Any suggestions? (And everything is Amazon because it was easy to find everything there...I don't care where I buy it...)

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:11 am

Where you plan to put these speakers? Small speakers either need a stand or a wall mount to get them up off the ground. Once you add in that cost, sometimes it's about the same price to get a floor standing speaker that also has more output and better quality.

And just an FYI, only around 5% of movies are encoded in 7.1. The rest are 5.1. Also, in small rooms, the need for 7.1 decreases.

Off the top of my head, here are a couple sales worth looking at. Newegg has their Polk Monitor series speakers on sale again. Here's a link to one of them.http://www.newegg.com/Product/...90013

Also, take a look at this site. Cheap Infinity primus speakers.http://www.theaudiovideosource....html

You could get, (in order of performance)7, Primus 152's = 3506, Primus 152's + 1 Primus c250 = 4103, Primus 162's + 4 primus 152's = 4102 primus 252's + 1 primus c350 + 4 primus 152's = 550

For price comparison, Amazon has the Primus package of,4, 152's + 1 c250 for 500. From that site above, it'd be 310.http://www.amazon.com/Harman-P...5538C

For subs, you may want to check out some used options to save a couple dollars. SVS subs are nice, but they also have a higher resale than other brands.

Looks like AV123 has an open box MFW-15. But that pushes your budget.http://www.av123.com//index.ph...id=37

Another possibility?http://www.edesignaudio.com/pr...d=407

Heck, I have even have an Infinity SW-12 that I rarely use. I used it as my computer sub...I've wanted to sell it for a while, but I don't have the original packaging.

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:13 am

Alsohttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...12155Amazon has it for 899. You may be able to talk him down a bit?

BestBuy usually sells this for 899 or 999 (w/sub) when they put it on sale. I forget.http://www.vanns.com/shop/serv...20139499 shipped (for me at least) is a pretty good buy in comparison.

You know I was wondering, you have a nice receiver with pretty good power output, but want to get small cheap speakers that are way out classed by the receiver. Are you in a position where you could progressively build your system? For example, could you buy your front LCR's, then the sub(s), then the surrounds as money becomes available?

I ask because those Primus 362's and c350 speakers are so cheap since they're discontinued, but, paired with a nice sub, will push your audio budget and you still haven't added in the surrounds.

Or, maybe you don't listen very loud and smaller speakers will work just fine. That's always possible and after you buy a ~$500 speaker system, if you find a year later that it's not enough for you, you can always sell it to help fund your upgrade.

That's kind'a what I'm doing. I have 6 Infinity Beta-20's, but will be using 5 of them for my HT. I've sourced some Beta-50 towers to upgrade my beta20's in the front and I'm looking for a C360 center to upgrade my Beta20 I'm using as a center. From there I can add two beta-20's to the rear if I want to do a 7.2 (I have 2, 15" subs) setup.

That will then get me by till I can build a much bigger and more powerful speaker setup, but my building has been halted due to life getting in the way.
Modified by Looneybomber at 2:41 PM 12/2/2009

Post by **marlin29311** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:42 am

Looneybomber wrote:Where you plan to put these speakers? Small speakers either need a stand or a wall mount to get them up off the ground. Once you add in that cost, sometimes it's about the same price to get a floor standing speaker that also has more output and better quality.

And just an FYI, only around 5% of movies are encoded in 7.1. The rest are 5.1. Also, in small rooms, the need for 7.1 decreases.

The rear speakers would most likely be mounted onto the wall, whereas the front speakers will be either on the stand for the TV or on an adjacent shelf (DVD, etc...), if not hung from the walls as well. I try to keep a nice flushness and minimalistic approach to what people see, so I like to keep everything smaller (ie why I'm going small speakers) so that it's more discreet.

I do understand that not a lot of stuff is in 7.1, but the whole reason for getting the receiver was the huge deal, the amount of stuff it carries, and I want to have something that is going to last me a long time, so this way when 7.1 becomes more prominent, I won't have to upgrade - maybe just buy two more satellites if I don't do it off the bat.

I'm currently a huge fan of Polk, as that's what's on my current setup, but it's one of their lower models, so I'm looking to upgrade a little bit.

I also really like this:

http://www.infinitysystems.com...ry=US

They're small, but they seem like they'd get the job done really well.

http://www.infinitysystems.com...ry=US

And that's super nice, but a little over the range...

Bah, decisions.

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:26 pm

Those TSS-1200's used to sell on ebay for around 4-500, refurbished from Harman International. They currently have a couple TSS-500's on there. Look for seller Harmanaudio.http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-T...39a85

The smaller primus speakers listed above 152 and 142, have wall mounts attachments on them...but you may have to buy the mounting hardware. If you do decide to wall mount your speakers, I encourage you buy 3 identical front speakers. Don't waste your money on those horizontal center channels unless you have to put it under the tv.

Another thought. What about inwall speakers? If you want minimalist design, you could have all of your speakers, including subwoofers, built into the walls. If you own your house and plan on staying there for a while, I encourage you do an infinite baffle sub even if you don't do inwall speakers.

Post by **andrez** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:36 pm

i bought the bose g series III 2 month ago, and its freakin awesome http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UT...lna_bthe best for the bang for the buck

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:43 pm

My sister-in-law has that. It suits their needs...being able to reproduce sound while taking up little to no space. Not a good bang for the buck, performance wise. Bose is about the most over priced company next to Monster Wire...actually, I think they surpass Monster. If it had Logitech on the box, it'd be around 300, not 900.

Post by **marlin29311** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:11 am

andrez wrote:i bought the bose g series III 2 month ago, and its freakin awesome http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UT...lna_bthe best for the bang for the buck

My grandparents have a bose system...it's nice, but I can tell you that my Polk system with cheaper sony receiver does a better job, and it cost neary $1000 less...

Looneybomber wrote:Those TSS-1200's used to sell on ebay for around 4-500, refurbished from Harman International. They currently have a couple TSS-500's on there. Look for seller Harmanaudio.http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-T...39a85

That's good to know - I might have to go and do that, because it seems like there'd be no difference against doing a refurb for almost $1000 less...

Looneybomber wrote:Another thought. What about inwall speakers? If you want minimalist design, you could have all of your speakers, including subwoofers, built into the walls. If you own your house and plan on staying there for a while, I encourage you do an infinite baffle sub even if you don't do inwall speakers.

I've thought about it - but I can't do it now. I'm still at home with my parents, but I'm engaged and moving out sometime in 2011...I don't want to go through the trouble of in-wall mounting and then packing up shop and moving around to somewhere else where I'm not sure if I can do an inwall mouting...but I really do like that. I've wired my parents family room to do so already, and I love how versitle it makes the room.

It seems like you really like the Infinity's Looney - any points of going with them over a comprible Polk set or another set?

Post by **marlin29311** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:32 am

Also, how about a Definitive Technology setup?

http://www.amazon.com/Definiti...r=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Definiti...=1-15

CNET seems to give these both very good reviews...any thoughts?

Post by **Looneybomber** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:42 am

marlin29311 wrote:It seems like you really like the Infinity's Looney - any points of going with them over a comprible Polk set or another set?

It's not so much that I like Infinity's, I just like a certain sound. It just so happens that certain infinity products give me that sound I like AND I was able to get them cheap (refurbished). So I do tend to sound like an Infinity cheerleader, but it's because I've had good luck with their speakers and were able to get them cheap.

On the flip side, I had a pair of Monitor Audio RS-1's. Just the pair of those bookshelfs cost me nearly as much as my receiver and 6 infinity beta-20's...and I thought my beta-20's sounded better. I sold them just a few months ago.

Speaker manufactures typically have a bit of a signiture sound. For example, Klipsch is so bright it makes me cringe...every single one of their products I've heard.

The Polk speakers I've heard (LSi series) sounded nice. That Vifa ring tweeter is nice, I like it, but my reservation with recommending them is their price. I've not heard the Monitor Series, but with the positive testimonials, the fact I like their LSi series, the fact you like your parent's Polks, and the fact that they're on sale, should make them a good buy for those listeners like us.

marlin29311 wrote:Also, how about a Definitive Technology setup?

http://www.amazon.com/Definiti...r=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Definiti...=1-15

CNET seems to give these both very good reviews...any thoughts?

I don't remember hearing any Def Tech products, so I don't know how they sound. That's also why I'm hesitant to recommend them, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

Just remember the subwoofer is real important. You certainly don't want to skimp on it. If at all possible, try to build your own so that you can build it to the proper shape and size. That way it's not only functional as a sub, it's also functional as say an end table, tv stand, or whatever you can think of.

Post by **Looneybomber** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:26 pm

Infinity TSS-1200's on ebay.http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-T...f9366

TSS-800's on ebay.http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-T...f1ea1
Modified by Looneybomber at 10:59 PM 12/11/2009

Post by **marlin29311** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:18 am

Funny story - I was in Costco over the weekend, and I saw a bundle with a H/K receiver and Infinity TSS-800 5.1 setup for $600 together...

I actually stopped and listened to it for a little bit as well...wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but that could have been due to the relatively cheap receiver it was bundled out with....

I think I'm going to go with the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600 - here's why-

I was in Best Buy walking around and I decided to head back to the Magnolia thing and give them a listen...the BB rep put in the SpiderMan 2 Blu Ray to show them off - played the scene where Dr. Oct creates that mini black hole thing in the lab...

For the little size, these things were amazing....I also had him use the DT floor speakers just for comparison....obviously the $2000 set of floors were better, but the little guys could hold their own in the small room that we were in (which is what I would have).

For the $800, I don't think I've heard anything as good...it certianly beats out my grandparents Bose system and anything I currently have.

The guy was really helpful too...he learned'd me that DT was actually spun off of Polk by the cofounder of Polk, so they share a lot of similar technologies...something I didn't know, and possibly why I really enjoyed the sound, considering my liking of Polk.

I'll most likely take your advice Looney and stick with the 5.1 for now...I don't want to go dropping another $200 on a pair of satellites if nothing is going to use them...

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:46 am

Excellent! I'm glad you were able to hear the speakers to see what you really like. I would have felt bad if I recommended something and you ended up not liking it. Def Tech products, while I've not seen a lot of negative reviews about them (there's negative reviews for everything, but a small amount is fine), I've not heard personally so I'd don't have anything to say about them.

When you get all of your stuff, take pictures, test it out with various albums and movies that are well known to you so you'll know how your system performs relative to others you've heard.

Speaker placement is also very important, so don't just haphazardly place things. Subwoofer placement tends to be difficult, so be prepare to do the subwoofer crawl.

Post by **marlin29311** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:25 am

I'll definately make a new thread up once I get all of the stuff! I'm going to lurk around and see if I can find these on sale somewhere or somehow get them discounted at all...I'm in no big hurry, which is nice so I can take my time and buy things when they're on sale. I'm getting the receiver as a christmas present from my parents, and I want to have the whole system assembled by March/April - my brother is moving out, so I basically get the finished basement to myself

I'm hoping BB will run a special on them at some point or something like that with a bundle price....$800 isn't bad, but hey, we can all save money. Only thing that stinks is that they only really retail out of BB...nothing else in my area sells them. I could always order off Amazon (they're an authorized retailer) if I find a great deal, but I don't want to have to ship...I hate shipping.

Do you have any wire recommendations? My last system used some Monster wire which was pretty good for the money...got a 50' spool for about $30...I think it was called Monster XP... But it was your standard cut and strip wire...I don't know if I need/would benefit from something better, or if I should look into a different end. Does using bare wire vs. banana or spade connectors really make a difference aside from ease of use?

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:42 am

http://consumerist.com/2008/03...ntent

Monster Cable is good, but is severely over priced. Monster XP is just oxygen free 16ga wire. Any ordinary, oxygen free copper 16ga wire will be just as good. You may want to look to see what monoprice.com has or any surplus place that sells Belkin cable. You can also check places like Parts-express.com.

I highly suggest using 14ga or 12ga, even though 12 is likely overkill given the short distances you'll use. If you want to spend money on Monster XP, go for it, it'll work, but there are certainly cheaper options. Just a couple months ago, Parts-express had some 16ga Belkin OFC wire on sale for $3 for a 50ft package. $3 vs. $30 and each will be sonically indistinguishable from the other...I'll let your wallet do the talking.

Currently, I'm working with a guy on ebay that's selling a 1000' spool of some Belkin 12ga wire that's CL2 (inwall) rated. He wants $150, I offered $105. If you look around, you'll find some fairly cheap wire that will work well for your needs.
Modified by Looneybomber at 3:47 PM 12/16/2009

Post by **marlin29311** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:23 am

I figured the Mon$ter was overpriced, but I didn't even realize that much! Unfortunatly, it was all I could find when I put my old system together...O well, you live and learn I guess...

I'm more than likely going to get all of my cable needs from Monoprice...they have some 14ga CL2 wire in a spool of 100ft for dirt cheap...which is nice because it's white...I don't think I'm going to in-wall do anything, but at least I can blend the white wire in with moldings, etc...

DO you think using banana or spade connectors makes a difference outside of ease of use? I'm just used to cutting and stripping, but I didn't know if it was worth it to spend the $3-4 on the connectors....

Post by **Looneybomber** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:42 am

Big (over 100pgs) thread on the ProCinema 600/800/1000http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...63945

Banana vs. Spade won't matter at all...unless your receiver is like mine. Mine won't take spades, only banana or bare wire. All of my speakers though, have 5-way binding posts so because my receiver won't take spades I bought a 20pk of banana's.

That said, I perfer spade ends because with a banana, it plugs straight in, then the wire has to immediately bend 90degrees. Is that a problem? No (well it could if your jacketing slides down and exposes the bare wire), I'm just anal. So pick whichever one you like best.

Monoprice has some quality cable for the price. You can get some things dirt cheap, but they're also pretty cheapy. They have some high quality HDMI cables I'm going to buy.

For Christmas my mom got me a 4ft, 26ga RocketFish HDMI cable for about $60 at Best Buy. A cable of slightly better quality on Monoprice (thicker gauge wire and added protective jacket) is $8.14. A cable of slightly lower quality, but still 1.3a rated on Parts-express is on sale for $4.00 for a 6ft'er.

I've had good luck with Monoprice and parts-express and have referred a few people there. But a person can always get some quality wire/cables at Best Buy with the name Monster or Acoustic Research on the side.

Post by **marlin29311** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:39 am

I'm probably going to get the Monoprice wire - 250ft of 14ga CL2 wire for 35 bucks...that will get me through now and when I move too...plus then I can just pick up the banana plugs for a buck each and grab my HDMI cables while I'm at it....

Now I have to find the Def. Tech's on sale or at least muster up the courage to go and try and negotiate with BB on buying them...though my parents agreed to help pay for them as my birthday present, which is pretty sweet.

In other news, my receiver sliced my hand open. lol...apparently there are some open screws on the bottom that I didn't notice...ouch.

Post by **marlin29311** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:39 am

So while I was buying my TV last night (Sharp 46" LED for $1100!...I don't know how this happened, but I'm not complaining), I sat down and listened to the Mirage Nanosat 5.1 system...

The sales rep put in a THX demo disc, which ended up doing some glass breaking stuff and then played the pod racing scene from Star Wars.

Overall, I wasn't impressed...the high range noises were kind of choppy and broke up...not sure if this was because of the receiver or not, but I was less than impressed with the quality of the speakers, considering I've heard some good things about them. Vocals were good, and the sub matched the rest of the sound very nicely, but I was dissapointed with the high range.

O well...they weren't even on the short list, but I felt that I should give them a try...I'm still liking the Def Techs...and I'll most likely pick them up around my birthday (the 12th of Jan).

Post by **Looneybomber** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:57 pm

Yeah the Mirage speakers are odd being that they all operate by having the listener hear sound at extreme off-axis angles. Much of the top end issues you were hearing could likely have been from diffraction issues, the sound bouncing off of near by objects. This will then cause nulls at frequencies whose wavelengths equal that of the distance between the speaker and the object.

This is also an important aspect for any sound system in your room. Floor, wall, and ceiling bounce are all issues common for everyone. If you find "suck outs" at certain frequencies in your room, try to see what frequency it happens at, and then look for interactions at the wave length and half wave length. Anyway, more on this later if it ends up being a problem for you.

Hope to see you get a sound system up and going!

Post by **marlin29311** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:07 am

Looneybomber wrote:Yeah the Mirage speakers are odd being that they all operate by having the listener hear sound at extreme off-axis angles. Much of the top end issues you were hearing could likely have been from diffraction issues, the sound bouncing off of near by objects. This will then cause nulls at frequencies whose wavelengths equal that of the distance between the speaker and the object.

This is also an important aspect for any sound system in your room. Floor, wall, and ceiling bounce are all issues common for everyone. If you find "suck outs" at certain frequencies in your room, try to see what frequency it happens at, and then look for interactions at the wave length and half wave length. Anyway, more on this later if it ends up being a problem for you.

Hope to see you get a sound system up and going!

I'm hoping that the Pioneer McAcc system will take care of a lot of those issues...I've never actually had a receiver with that in it, so I'm interested to see how the receiver will calibrate the system on its own.

More to follow...

Post by **marlin29311** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:09 am

Update!

Here's what she looks like right now...

I got the 46" Sharp Aquos LED for $1100!!!! I think there must have been a misprint or something...it's a $2000 TV, but the place honored the deal, so I was stoked!

Here's the receiver up close (Pioneer VSX-9130 TXH-K)

I am amazingly suprised at the sound quality compared to my old receiver...the Auto McAcc was an amazing setup...I have no idea how the weird noises it made worked, but it did...even the distance and everything was accurate and amazing. Just through the quick calibration everything sounds 2x better on my old speakers than it did before with my old Sony receiver.

I have the Xbox and the Bluray running through HDMI through the receiver to the TV, and I have the TV speakers turned off and sending audio to the receiver with an Optical cable (TOSLINK)...I've never heard Football in 5.1 before until yesterday when I watched the Eagles game in HD (nor did I realize it was possible, but then again, none of my previous TV's had optical out...) Quite amazing, to say the least.

I'm hoping to pick up the DefTech's next week...birthday is on Tuesday, and my parents and grandparents are giving me money towards them, and I also sent in some old electronics to the BestBuy trade in thing, so hopefully I'll get that gift card soon too...I'm going to try haggling with BB, telling them that I can get the speakers online with free shipping and no tax...hopefully they can make a concession on that, because I'd rather just buy them there than have it shipped...

Post by **marlin29311** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:40 am

So my entire speaker world turned upside down this weekend...I walked into 6th Ave Electronics on saturday night with the purpose of just bs'ing around and looking at the Def. Tech's, and 1.5 hours later, I completely changed my mind and went with...

Paradigm. I got the Cinema 90 setup, and will probably be adding the Phantom towers next year once I move out.

The Paradigm set was just so much better than the Definitive Tech's at all levels...The first sit through I had with the DT's was at Best Buy - everything sounded so good. I had a sit down again listening to the DT's and the Paradigm's back to back on the same scene (a Transformers 2 scene and The House of Flying Daggers too)...the DTs sounded great through the mid regions and the low regions (the DT satellites actually have passive radiators on them to boost bass...), but when it came to high regions, they sounded so muddy and non-existant. Contrasting, the Paradigm's sounded excellent through the mid-s and high's, and allowed the 360 Watt sub to do the work for the lower end stuff, and blended very nicely as well. The high range fidelity has crossed over into my own listening purposes...I'm hearing crap I've never heard before in my own stuff...playing Modern Warfare 2, I actually hear shells dropping to the ground from an Attack Chopper...I didn't even know that was programmed in!

Nice treat was the dipole rears as well, which I was not expecting on a speaker system in the $1000 range. I'll be able to comment on how well they work once I get out of the corner...

I'm now probably going to recommend Paradigm to anyone I see - in the $1000 5.1 price range, there was nothing I heard that sounded better, and quite frankly, they kicked a** compared to other systems priced higher...(more DT stuff, KEF, Energy...etc.).

I'll post pics once I get around to taking some pictures...

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:39 pm

Paradigm does it again

Glad to hear you got something better then DT,

What are you using for a sub?

Post by **marlin29311** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:05 am

The system came with a PDR-10 - 360 Watt Peak RMS sub.

Post by **marlin29311** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:03 am

...and another new update (sorry, I don't even know if anyone reads this thread, but I'm excited anyway).

I was browsing through 6th Ave the other day and happened to come upon a sale on Paradigm Phantom towers for $200 TOTAL. These are supposed to be $800 a pair...onsale for $200. Clearly I bought them.

So in the end I have my 7.1 setup even though I wasn't really trying, and I have a much more powerful front sound stage now too...all the speakers are sonicly matched (they're all from the same line) and sound excellent together. My system is basically the Phantom system now, except my sub is slightly lower powered, which isn't a big deal for me right now anyway (I can't even take the sub up past half or else my basement shakes and I wake everyone up...).

Post by **AppleBonker** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:43 am

Glad I poked my head in here. That's a nice setup you've got going there. I'd be excited too if I were you. I'm biased as I have a Paradigm setup as well. I still claim the improved audio on blu-ray is more impressive than the bump in video resolution, so I hope you're enjoying that capability.

How is that TV with 24 fps video input? That tv still uses 3:2 pulldown for video of this sort, correct?

Also, I completely sympathize with having a sub too powerful for your environment. I've got a Paradigm PW-2200 (V1) in my apartment. It's probably at 8% of it's ability, but any more and my neighbors will kill me. Can't wait to buy a home to be able to utilize it.

Post by **marlin29311** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:08 am

Yea, considering my budget constrictions (dumb weddings cost so damn much...), I think I've done really well. I'm still most impressed on my TV deal and the recent Phantom deal.

Blu-ray audio is amazing too. Listening to The Dark Knight in Dolby TrueHD is simply stunning (I watched it back to back in DVD and BluRay)...effects are so much more prominant in the lossless audio formats and it's chilling to hear glass shatter now

The TV does really well with 2:3 pulldown - it's kinda sad that I leave the TV in game mode though because I actually like all post processing turned off. I don't like all the active contrast/120Hz/post garbage...I don't want my stuff looking like a Soap Opera with unnatrual coloring. Just let it look like the source was intended to look.

Post by **AppleBonker** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:29 am

Thankfully, I didn't have the wedding problem when putting my stuff together. But, I started buying in college and pieced everything together over the course of about 1.5 years (it was fun letting my receiver sit for about 4 months without anything connected to it).

The cinema stuff can generally be had at a good price, especially considering the quality of the line. My dad has upgraded to a cinema (90) front stage (though that was a present from me to replace some blown yamahas that came with his HTB). I love the sound of those speakers. I've heard some good DTs, but to my ear you went with the better choice.

Check out the Audio Tier Thread on AVSForum. I just watched Master and Commander (DTS-HD MA) and was absolutely blown away. There are a few other titles on their reference quality list that are worth watching.

And I'm with you on the crazy options on most new tvs. The 120 Hz is only beneficial when that is the native refresh rate of the panel (IMO). IIRC, Sony and Samsung are the only two making true 120 Hz sets, but they end up being a decent amount more money. The 24fps was important to me, so when I bought my set about two years ago I didn't even look flat panel (my only option would've been a Pioneer Kuro, and I just did't have that cash). Since then, the quality of LCDs has improved dramatically. I'm still partial to plasma, but since Pioneer pulled out and Panasonic has had some issues of late, I doubt I'll be upgrading my tv anytime soon.

Either way, with your budget, I don't think you could've done any better. Excellent choices and I'm glad you're happy. I'd still recommend M&C and Transformers (which blows away the HD-DVD in the audio department).

Post by **marlin29311** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:48 am

I'm actually pretty active over on AVS now too...I've done a lot of reading and research over there. HUGELY helpful. It's funny to see though all the people that recommend my old system (the polk RM6750) to newbies.

It is sad that Pioneer pulled out of the Plasma market...the Kuro is hands down the best TV ever made probably...Though I heard that Panasonic bought all of their tech and it starting to implement it into their newer sets...don't know if that's true or not but it's something I heard.

I actually want to watch Transformers on Bluray! What's interesting is that I demoed the Cinema 70 watching transformers 2.....on DVD. I was so impressed with what the 70 did with the DVD version that I was pretty much instantly sold on Paradigm (the DT's sound so muddy and weak when playing that out...).

I acutally had another cool auditon (I was in 6ave for like 2 hours with my fiancee on a saturday night...she really loves me if she sat though all of this with me lol...hence why she got a nice V-day present :-p ). Star Trek on bluray...the scene where 6 of the space ships warp. I listened to it with the Paradigm Reference Studio 100 system...the amazing pop/bang noise that was made from this was simply amazing. Compared to the DT BP7000SC, it was like night and day. The DT's sounded terrible and didn't even make the effect at all. I was so dissapointed, especially after hearing how great DT was supposed to be.

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