Looking for some SDS info

[sjbsuperman1425]

I've been looking at NIStune for the past year or so, researching and gathering misc. information, and have recently started looking into SDS.

The installation seems to be fairly straight forward. Which system would you recommend, EM-4E or EM-4F? What extra sensors are needed besides the MAP sensor(obviously)? Basically I'm looking for information on what exactly is needed to install the SDS EM-4(E or F). The tuning aspect of it I can grasp later for sure. thanks.

[boost_boy]

The CAs need the F systms. As for sensors, the SDS will need an air and map sensor. Your water temperature sensor works just fine. Your TPS works just fine as well. The hardest thing about installing this system is the making a bracket for the hall sensor and (for some) installing the magnets on the crank pulley correctly.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

Would a fuel pump relay be needed as well? Also, is the F system able to use the coil packs or would I have to switch to a GM style ignition?

[boost_boy]

Would a fuel pump relay be needed as well? Also, is the F system able to use the coil packs or would I have to switch to a GM style ignition?

It uses GM style coil packs that are usually included in the purchase. You will need a fuel pump relay, but it is nothing more than a regular 12 volt relay.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

thanks for the info Dee. After reading through the manual on the website it seems very simple with no big words and such (easier to understand). Im seriously considering this system for later on, but will need to do some more research.

[float_6969]

I used the stock fuel pump relay. I used a lot of the stock KA harness to wire everything up.

The bracket is easy if you don't have A/C, as you can use the front 2 bolt holes to build the bracket from. If you're wanting to keep the A/C, things get a bit harder.

I'd use the GM coils that come with it. You can use the factory coils, but because they are batch fired they will limit you on the amount of power you'll be able to produce with them. The stock GM coils that come with it will get you to 400hp pretty easily, and the addition of an MSD box will boost that up considerably.

As I've said before, I had NEVER wired up or tuned a standalone, and I did it in a weekend, including building the bracket and drilling the pulley for the magnets. Things like building the bracket for the hall sensor, and having a line scribed on the back of the pulley are things that will speed up the process that you can do before you start pretty easily.

[sjbsuperman1425]

so its basically buy the SDS EM-4F system, a MAP sensor, and mount up the hall sensor? anything needed for idle control? I remember reading something on the site that said you cannot use factory idle control?

Also, where is the stock fuel pump relay in a 240? lol noob question but i really dont know. How did you wire it?

[float_6969]

You'll get the MAP sensor from SDS. Depending on your power goals, and what turbo you plan on using, you'll want either the 2 bar, or the 3 bar MAP sensor. If you EVER think you'll run more than 14psi, get the 3 bar.

Idle control is mostly just done via the throttle stop screw. You will want some sort of fast idle if you live in a cold climate. I didn't have much success with the SDS fast idle setup, and went back to the Nissan fast idle valve. It's the one under the TB. You'll want to wire it up so that it has power when the fuel pump has power.

If it's an S13, is in the fuse box behind the battery. If you can come up with a KA wiring harness (whichever one matches the motor that the chassis originally had, SOHC/DOHC) I could tell you how to wire it up pretty easily.

The hall sensor bracket and drilling the magnets is the hardest part as it has to be done PERFECTLY.

[sjbsuperman1425]

MAP sensors from SDS are at extra cost correct? I have access to tons of GM parts so coils, and sensors and such are no biggy for me.

So for fast idle you used the air regulator, but not the IACV, and used the throttle plate screw to set idle.

I do have the SOHC harness, but its hacked to s*** from wiring the CA and just using extra wires for other things :\

I think im getting a pretty good grasp on things, thanks a bunch Ryan and Dee.

[boost_boy]

MAP sensors from SDS are at extra cost correct? I have access to tons of GM parts so coils, and sensors and such are no biggy for me.

So for fast idle you used the air regulator, but not the IACV, and used the throttle plate screw to set idle.

I do have the SOHC harness, but its hacked to s*** from wiring the CA and just using extra wires for other things :\

I think im getting a pretty good grasp on things, thanks a bunch Ryan and Dee.

For fast idle, I use the fast idle solenoid that racetech sells. It's easier to install and allows me to completely eliminate any extra nissan garbage wire. My B13 sentra with the CA in it doesn't use the fast idle solenoid and it cranks and runs just fine without one. Now my 240 has A/C and I do have one on it moreso for the A/C, but it's nice when the car fast idls in cold weather start-ups as well. If you do decide to purchase one of these systems, don't be a hard-head know-it-all. You have people here on this very forum who actually don't mind helping you sort that major investment, so you don't have to go at it alone. Folks that start a "help me" thread and then start boasting about the experience they have with this and that don't really need help and that's why I don't bother posting on those threads that have OPs that makes those claims. It's not rocket science. None of us are knowledgeable about everything and that's why we network here on NICO.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

I'm not like that. I appreciate the help I get and never proclaim to ever know it all, because there is always much more to learn.

as for Fast Idle, Dee, you use the one avaible from the sdsefi.com site which would be installed via the manual provided by them im assuming.

Ryan, can you tell me a bit more about your setup? You said you use the factory air regulator and have it wired to be on when the fuel pump has power? Wouldn't that mean its open at all times?

So as it stands, SDS EM-4F system, 3 Bar MAP sensor, Fast Idle solenoid, and I'd be using a fan relay as well. The system will use all stock sensors that are not provided by them (ie water temp and air temp).

After reading over the installation manual, the Hall sensor install seems straight forward. Just some basic geometry and drilling skills. Same with the coils, basic electrical skills to wire them, but for using the factory tach, its the 200volt setting for us correct?

Again I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. Any pics of the hall sensor installed by chance?
Modified by sjbsuperman1425 at 3:38 PM 1/18/2010

[boost_boy]

I'm not like that. I appreciate the help I get and never proclaim to ever know it all, because there is always much more to learn.

as for Fast Idle, Dee, you use the one avaible from the sdsefi.com site which would be installed via the manual provided by them im assuming.

Ryan, can you tell me a bit more about your setup? You said you use the factory air regulator and have it wired to be on when the fuel pump has power? Wouldn't that mean its open at all times?

So as it stands, SDS EM-4F system, 3 Bar MAP sensor, Fast Idle solenoid, and I'd be using a fan relay as well. The system will use all stock sensors that are not provided by them (ie water temp and air temp).

After reading over the installation manual, the Hall sensor install seems straight forward. Just some basic geometry and drilling skills. Same with the coils, basic electrical skills to wire them, but for using the factory tach, its the 200volt setting for us correct?

Again I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. Any pics of the hall sensor installed by chance?

Modified by sjbsuperman1425 at 3:38 PM 1/18/2010

The tach wire from the coil base can be connectd directly to the dash connector wire that feeds your tach. As for pics of the hall sensor bracket, this is a "to each his own" area, so this is how mine are set-up rear or FWD with or without A/C:





Pics are of the sensor placed on the alternator side RWD and P/S pump FWD. Same position, just each configuration has a different component in that slot which inlvolves the oil pump.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

so the Hall Sensor just bolts to the block they way you have it mounted?

[float_6969]

Ryan, can you tell me a bit more about your setup? You said you use the factory air regulator and have it wired to be on when the fuel pump has power? Wouldn't that mean its open at all times?

I'd be using a fan relay as well. The system will use all stock sensors that are not provided by them (ie water temp and air temp).

After reading over the installation manual, the Hall sensor install seems straight forward. Just some basic geometry and drilling skills. Same with the coils, basic electrical skills to wire them, but for using the factory tach, its the 200volt setting for us correct?

Again I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me. Any pics of the hall sensor installed by chance?

I started out with the SDS fast idle, but it didn't seem to work well for me. Remember that Dee is in Florida, and I'm in Kansas. I seriously doubt Dee ever has to worry about trying to start his car in below 0 temps. The SDS fast idle valve simply doesn't move enough air to allow for enough revs to get the motor started properly at those temps. That's why I switched to the stock CA18 fast idle valve. The reason that you wire it in parallel with the fuel pump is because of the way that it works. The stock fast idle valve's opening is based off of temperature. When it's cold, and it has no power, the opening on the inside is very big and allows for a lot of air to bypass the TB. When the car is started, power is applied to a heater built into the fast idle valve. As long as the fuel pump is running, that heater has power, and as the valve gets hotter, the opening in the valve gets smaller. It works very well. The problem with it is that it can get gummed up with junk over the years, and the heater can fail. But I would imagine that it has at least a 10 year lifespan, which is fine for me.

Once again, if you use the stock KA harness, you can use the factory fan relay and wiring so you don't have to purchase one. I did that with mine as well.

I've actually installed an SDS in an S13 AND and S14, and I used most of the stock relays and wiring harness for both installs.

You don't need a water temp sensor, just an air temp sensor, and a MAP sensor. You can use the Nissan water temp, and TPS.

I'm using a similar bracket to what Dee is using. The Hall sensor isn't mounted straight to the block. There is a bracket that needs built that bolts to the oil pump to place it in that position.

[sjbsuperman1425]

stock fast idle it is for me then. I dont drive it in the winter so it shouldn't be to big of a problem, it can get mighty cold in Michigan sometimes even in spring/summer.

The Fan/Fuel Pump relays would most likely be just taping into the harness and using a little electric know how i take it. I dont have a KA harness and dont want to use any of my original CA harness because it works great and if anything ever happens, i want to have it as a backup.

[float_6969]

Using the stock relay's is super simple. You shouldn't have any problem figuring it out, and if you do, we'll be here to help.

[CakeEater]

After talking face to face with the guys at SDS (I live in Calgary), it was a no brainer to go with their system.

They were super nice about explaining in great detail how everything works and is installed. They were even nice enough to help with my tuning for free, yeah!

I too use the stock high idle control.

[sjbsuperman1425]

I think im pretty sold on SDS. Though expensive to the eye at first ($1500 and some change) it sounds like it pays for itself in time, and the tuning sounds/looks simple along with the wiring. I still will continue my research and learning process. Fuel Maps i think i understand about 70-80%, but ignition maps and how to figure how what the ignition timing needs to be is still a bit beyond my comprehension..

[boost_boy]

I think im pretty sold on SDS. Though expensive to the eye at first ($1500 and some change) it sounds like it pays for itself in time, and the tuning sounds/looks simple along with the wiring. I still will continue my research and learning process. Fuel Maps i think i understand about 70-80%, but ignition maps and how to figure how what the ignition timing needs to be is still a bit beyond my comprehension..

When you buy one, we'll help you cover your areas of concern behind the scenes. No one really shares maps on a public forum because nothing is guaranteed and we don't want people to take info that we provide, then go out and whack their engines only to start bad mouthing the folks that try to help. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is where I get off this thread until you have the system in your posession, have done most of your install, and ready to fire some serious baller questions at us. The SDS is no bastard of a system, but there has to be some discretion about some things, especially mapping. Be sure and select an injector and stick with it; kind of an all purpose injector. My recommendation: 750cc or greater.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

no i completely understand the not sharing maps and that sorta thing. Its how you make money you know? I just need to develop the conecpt of it before i get to the point of purchase. I, again, appreciate everyones help.

As for injectors, I planned on Deautchwerks(sp?) 850cc regardless of what EMS i was getting.

[sjbsuperman1425]

Just had a thought before I went to class, this might be a good thing to put under the Engine Management section in the stickies.