Looking for loud good sound

[holynick55]

Hey guys,I have the coupe with no BOSE. I am looking for a nice loud sound, with no distorsion. I dont need a perfect sound but I nice clean sound.I also need the little space in the trunk so I rather not but anything there.

What are my options? Do I have to change speakers or can I just install an AMP?If I do need to change speakers, all of them or specific ones? Which to change? Add a bass?

How much can it cost for something decent, not cheap, but not extra pro either.

Thanks guys!

[mcheddadi]

Hey salut! Tu parles français?

[holynick55]

Salut, c'est certain que je parle francais! Ta coupe a vraiment de la gueule! Tu connais tout ce qui touche le son?? As-tu laissé le système BOSE? Hier j'étais avec un ami qui a la 4 portes avec le systeme BOSE mais je sais pas, me semble qui yavait pas mal de distorsion...p-e mal "setté"...

[the727kid]

Well whats your budget?

[mcheddadi]

Salut, c'est certain que je parle francais! Ta coupe a vraiment de la gueule! Tu connais tout ce qui touche le son?? As-tu laissé le système BOSE? Hier j'étais avec un ami qui a la 4 portes avec le systeme BOSE mais je sais pas, me semble qui yavait pas mal de distorsion...p-e mal "setté"...

hehe, merci! moi j'ai laisser le systeme bose, si tu touche pas au Equalizer le son est superbe mais des qu'on crank la bass a fond ca distort le son vraiment au volume moyen et plus.

le mieux c'est de metre un sub dans le coffre parce que les aigu et les moyens sont parfait. c'est vraiment juste la bass qui est pas tres Boom boom

[holynick55]

well, the budget...I was figuring a amp like 300$ CDN, maybe a pair of speakers around 100$. So yea, 400-500$.

So mcheddadi, I'll write in English for the guys on the forum , you think I should leave all my stock speaker (Not bose) and just add a bass? How about an AMP? I would really like a louder and non-distorsted sound especially for Techno kinda music...see what I mean....

Thx again!

[tarek]

well, the budget...I was figuring a amp like 300$ CDN, maybe a pair of speakers around 100$. So yea, 400-500$.

So mcheddadi, I'll write in English for the guys on the forum , you think I should leave all my stock speaker (Not bose) and just add a bass? How about an AMP? I would really like a louder and non-distorsted sound especially for Techno kinda music...see what I mean....

Thx again!

If you wanted to add a sub it'd most likely go in a box in your trunk, where you said you didn't want to add anything because you need the space.

As far as upgrading speakers, you should check out the Infinity Kappa speakers...they go for about mid to low 100s on crutchfield.com, but you can probably find them a bit cheaper on ebay. A decent amp to power the speakers will probably run you at least $300, but I'd even say $400 if you want to give the speakers the power they deserve. So if you were to replace the speakers and put an amp to them it'd probably run you at least $300 for 4 pairs of speakers (maybe more because in Canada we get screwed), and say $300-400 for the amp.

If you wanted to add a sub/amp, it of course depends on what you want out of it. But a decent system will run you about $500, plus the box and installation accessories. JL Audio and Rockford Fosgate make the best subs and amps. For sound quality take a look at the JL Audio 10W6 or 10W3 even (although the price difference isn't that much, and from what I hear the sound difference is significant), and pair that with either the JL Audio 500/1 amp or the RF T500-1bd amp.

[holynick55]

Thx Tarek,one thing I am not sure to understand...The original speakers (Not Bose), will they be able to offer a louder and better sound if I only add an AMP? (As it is now, the sound is definitely not loud enough)

Also, IF I have to change speakers, do I need to change all of them or only a few?

thx

[vballer22]

Thx Tarek,one thing I am not sure to understand...The original speakers (Not Bose), will they be able to offer a louder and better sound if I only add an AMP? (As it is now, the sound is definitely not loud enough)

Also, IF I have to change speakers, do I need to change all of them or only a few?

thx

How loud do you turn up the volume? the distortion really begins at the "18" mark on the base model oem system. That is, when you turn it up, the number on the radio display reads 18.

What are you willing to spend? a good 4 channel amp should be about $150, maybe $200 at most. any more is meant for super high power or show systems. The head unit is also a great idea to replace. try this:

AMPhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-MRP...wItem

Head Unithttp://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-CDA...wItem

Speakershttp://cgi.ebay.com/2-NEW-ALPI...wItem

andhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ALPINE-SPR...wItem

That's a GREAT system, and more than you would really need, but just an example. The next question iss how much bass you want. A little? enough to round off your music? A TON?also do you listen to more rap or more rock?

A much cheaper example, but really good none the less:Amp same as above

head unit, stick with alpine or pioneer, and spend around $150.

Speakers: stick with rockford fosgate, alpine (type s), maybe sony or something. Figure on spending upwards of $60 per pair, 6x9's usually cost a little more than 6.5's.

How much bass would you like?

[tarek]

Thx Tarek,one thing I am not sure to understand...The original speakers (Not Bose), will they be able to offer a louder and better sound if I only add an AMP? (As it is now, the sound is definitely not loud enough)

Also, IF I have to change speakers, do I need to change all of them or only a few?

thx

I'm not positive on this, but I'm 90% sure you can't just add an amp to the factory speakers. You'd need to change the headunit for sure, and even then I don't think it works that way with factory speakers.

If you want to go a fairly cheap route without adding a sub, look at the infinity reference speakers. Infinity make great speakers so I'd stick with them for that. You can pick up a pair of 6x9s for the rear deck for ~$60: http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-R...wItem and a pair of 6.5s for the front for ~$40: http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-R...wItem plus shipping for the two. You'll need to get an aftermarket deck, and there's a ton of choices to whatever works for you...that's between $100-200 to be conservative. And then an amp for ~$200: http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCKFORD-F...wItem.

The amp vballer22 might work just fine, I just don't know anything about it. Our resident audio god (rjdmmfl1) swears by the Rockford Fosgate Power (not Punch!) series of amps, so that's why I suggest that.

[rjdmmfl1]

I'm not positive on this, but I'm 90% sure you can't just add an amp to the factory speakers. You'd need to change the headunit for sure, and even then I don't think it works that way with factory speakers.

If you want to go a fairly cheap route without adding a sub, look at the infinity reference speakers. Infinity make great speakers so I'd stick with them for that. You can pick up a pair of 6x9s for the rear deck for ~$60: http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-R...wItem and a pair of 6.5s for the front for ~$40: http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-R...wItem plus shipping for the two. You'll need to get an aftermarket deck, and there's a ton of choices to whatever works for you...that's between $100-200 to be conservative. And then an amp for ~$200: http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCKFORD-F...wItem.

The amp vballer22 might work just fine, I just don't know anything about it. Our resident audio god (rjdmmfl1) swears by the Rockford Fosgate Power (not Punch!) series of amps, so that's why I suggest that.

I wanted to let you guys give your input rather than continue to interject my opinion on things. I think that's how we all grow regarding knowledge, and I see from some of the comments on here that folks are doing just that

Regarding putting an amp to the factory speakers, it can be done, but I wouldn't suggest it! A decent amp would most likely be too much for the factory speakers. and would eventually blow them!

Everything Tarek and Vballer suggested is spot on. Its all about how much you want to spend, what type of music you listen to, what type of sound you are trying to get.

So first off, a 4 channel amp is an absolute must. There are a number of them to choose from, but I would stick to JL audio, MTX, or Rockford to start things off!

Getting an aftermarket deck would definately help out, but if you keep your factory deck, you will need something like the JL audio cleansweep or Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.1 sound processor.

For your front speakers, you want to get a component setup. As already suggested, something like the Infinity reference or Infinity Kappas would be rnough for you. No need to go balls to the walls with Infinity Kappa perfect or Boston Acoustics, that's overboard for what you want!

For the rear speakers, you can eiether go with another set of 6.5"components and get an adapter plate to mount them, or you can go with the 6x9's which is what is there from the factory. 6x9's offer more midbass, which would be really nice for the "punch" that you get in techno music!

To finish it all off, if you want a little nice bass, but want to keep your trunk space, you can go with a shallow mount subwoofer that can fit into a really small box, or perfectly in the spare tire area, if you'd be willing to give that up. For the music you listen to you want a woofer that sounds good in a sealed box, not a ported box, so I would stay away from Rockford fosgate for the woofer, and go with something like a shallow mount Pioneer.

**note** this sub isn't the best sounding thing by far, but if you're trying to conserve trunk space, then this will do. You could also get a shallow mount Rockford P3 sub, but again, even with a lot of power, these subs are just OK. For a good everyday woofer, 1 12" JL audio W3 would be perfect! Not too much bass, just a little bit for good overall sound

**SUMMARY**Speakers:2 x Infinity Reference 6.5 components2 x Infinity reference 6x9's

no need to play around with other companies! For everyday use, Infinity Kappa speakers will be more than what you need!

Amplifiers:Kenwood 4 channel = OK amp http://cgi.ebay.com/KENWOOD-EX...wItem

Alpine 4 channel = good amp http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

JL audio 4 channel amp = Good amp! http://cgi.ebay.com/JL-AUDIO-A...wItem

Rockford Power 4 channel amp = Good amp http://cgi.ebay.com/Rockford-F...wItem

**note** There are more powerful amps you could go with from each of these companies, but these will be more than enough for your needs... no need to spend money unnecessarily! I would personally fo with eiethr the Rockford or the JL audio amps.

Subwoofer: there's really no way around it. Ifd you want complete sound, you need a subwoofer. For your needs, i would go with a JL audio W3 for a little bass, or the JL audio W6 for more bass. Also good is the Alpine Type R.

Subwoofer Amplifier: either the JL audio 500/1 or the Rockford Fosgate T500-1bd will be great for your needs!

Hope this helps... look at a few of these, and then

[tarek]

I wanted to let you guys give your input rather than continue to interject my opinion on things. I think that's how we all grow regarding knowledge, and I see from some of the comments on here that folks are doing just that

lol I was wondering where you were! Thought you went on vacation or something

[holynick55]

Thx a lot guys!! Wow! Lots of info but the links sure help.

To answer, I like it loud when I listen to Tehno like Tiesto or whatever...and I would be happy with a fairly good system for 500$

THey are 6 or 8 speakers in the base AC..I understood I needed to only change 4 speakers...so the 2 back and.... which ones? I dont change the one in the dash, right?

How much would be reasonnable for installation?

THx!

[vballer22]

Thx a lot guys!! Wow! Lots of info but the links sure help.

To answer, I like it loud when I listen to Tehno like Tiesto or whatever...and I would be happy with a fairly good system for 500$

THey are 6 or 8 speakers in the base AC..I understood I needed to only change 4 speakers...so the 2 back and.... which ones? I dont change the one in the dash, right?

How much would be reasonnable for installation?

THx!

Tiesto huh? well you're gonna need a sub for that my friend.

There are 6 speakers in the base model, and no stock subwoofer. The speakers to change are the two 6x9's in the back deck, which you remove by going under through the trunk, not above below the window, and the two 6.5's in the doors, which you must remove the door panels to get to, then use a 1" spacer to mount the speakers onto.

I personally love installing this stuff myself, but if you dont feel comfortable doing it yourself, expect to pay a total of $1000 for a pretty good system, and $500 to $700 for a good system. Of course keep on the lookout for great deals on ebay and other places. AND STAY AWAY FROM CIRCUIT CITY AND BEST BUY for your installs.

[the727kid]

These guys are getting in the right direction, I would reccomend a different set-up though. I would consider some Phoenix Gold RSDs for the front stage (if you can find them, they are sold-out everywhere), those are ~$100 I believe shipped. Next I would do a Sundown 100.4 as for your amplifier. Use the front two channels to power the RSDs and the bridge the rear channels to run a sub (possibly a Mach5 Audio MAW10). The sub would be excellent for Techno music, especially in a sealed box.

All of those products have been tried and tested numerous times. And you could end up with much more for your money with those, than saying going JL. I believe Sony, Infinity, and Kenwood products aren't that great. Infinity has muddy bids and harsh highs, and I think the other two are just sub-par equipment.

For ~$600 (maybe less) this set-up has the potential to really blow away set-ups costing twice as much.

MAW10: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...d=204

Sundown 100.4 (Don't be scared by the price, e-mail them to get a MUCH better price, or look for it used, the warrenty is two years and is transferablle, the owner of the company has A++++ support): http://www.low-hz.com/commerce...bf155

PG RSDs:http://cgi.ebay.com/PHOENIX-GO...wItem

As for installation, well I say try to do it your self, I will gladly talk you through it if you need help. It would be a pretty simple install. Just would need take a weekend-off and do it slow and take your time, if it's your first install.

[rjdmmfl1]

These guys are getting in the right direction, I would reccomend a different set-up though. I would consider some Phoenix Gold RSDs for the front stage (if you can find them, they are sold-out everywhere), those are ~$100 I believe shipped. Next I would do a Sundown 100.4 as for your amplifier. Use the front two channels to power the RSDs and the bridge the rear channels to run a sub (possibly a Mach5 Audio MAW10). The sub would be excellent for Techno music, especially in a sealed box.

All of those products have been tried and tested numerous times. And you could end up with much more for your money with those, than saying going JL. I believe Sony, Infinity, and Kenwood products aren't that great. Infinity has muddy bids and harsh highs, and I think the other two are just sub-par equipment.

For ~$600 (maybe less) this set-up has the potential to really blow away set-ups costing twice as much.

MAW10: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...d=204

Sundown 100.4 (Don't be scared by the price, e-mail them to get a MUCH better price, or look for it used, the warrenty is two years and is transferablle, the owner of the company has A++++ support): http://www.low-hz.com/commerce...bf155

PG RSDs:http://cgi.ebay.com/PHOENIX-GO...wItem

As for installation, well I say try to do it your self, I will gladly talk you through it if you need help. It would be a pretty simple install. Just would need take a weekend-off and do it slow and take your time, if it's your first install.

this is the problem... for folks that don't know much about car audio, it can be hard to convince them to go with some of these "off brands" that are less known and less battle tested. If I didn't know anything about car audio, I would much rather someone refer me to a known company than saying "hey, trust me, these are great speakers, I know you've probably never heard of any of these brands, but they're really good"

Speakers: Yes, I agree infinity reference and maybe kappas have harsh highs, but I didn't think he was trying to spend the money that it would cost to get high quality "name brand" components like Infinity Kappa perfects or Boston Acoustic Pro 60's ... I've never listen to "phoenix gold" components, so I can't speak to them, but I can definately speak to the quality of Kappa perfect and Boston Pro 60's, and there are few components in the business "at reasonable costs" that can match those components!

Amplifiers: Next regarding amplifiers, again I wouldn't trust some off brand amp company. There are tons of amps that one could refer someone to, but why would anyone go with a company that they've never heard of.

Again, I would put up my Rockford 1500-1bd amp all day against sundown's comparable SAZ-1500d. And its not that I'm completely brand loyal, its that since Chan took over engineering at Rockford Fosgate, they've greatly improved their stuff over the crap they were putting out 6-7 years ago, and their POWER amplifiers are just simply bad *** amps.

Subwoofers: I can only recommend ok quality subs because I don't think he's trying to spend the money that wopuld be necessary for a JL W6 , which again would be more than enough for his needs.

In theory, I do not like mixing and matching amps and subs, because when you have companies like Rockford and JL that make good 1-2 punch amp sub combos, then its safer to go with those than an off brand company.

gain, I def thank you for chiming in, its good to have diverse opinions, but what happens if you're wrong. What happens if he gets them, and they sound like a$$, and he's like da*n, I should've never went with that off brand company. That's why we are sticking to brand names that don't cost an arm and a leg, but will still get good sound. In the end, if you want GREAT sound, you just have to pony up the dough!

[the727kid]

this is the problem... for folks that don't know much about car audio, it can be hard to convince them to go with some of these "off brands" that are less known and less battle tested. If I didn't know anything about car audio, I would much rather someone refer me to a known company than saying "hey, trust me, these are great speakers, I know you've probably never heard of any of these brands, but they're really good"

Speakers: Yes, I agree infinity reference and maybe kappas have harsh highs, but I didn't think he was trying to spend the money that it would cost to get high quality "name brand" components like Infinity Kappa perfects or Boston Acoustic Pro 60's ... I've never listen to "phoenix gold" components, so I can't speak to them, but I can definately speak to the quality of Kappa perfect and Boston Pro 60's, and there are few components in the business "at reasonable costs" that can match those components!

Amplifiers: Next regarding amplifiers, again I wouldn't trust some off brand amp company. There are tons of amps that one could refer someone to, but why would anyone go with a company that they've never heard of.

Again, I would put up my Rockford 1500-1bd amp all day against sundown's comparable SAZ-1500d. And its not that I'm completely brand loyal, its that since Chan took over engineering at Rockford Fosgate, they've greatly improved their stuff over the crap they were putting out 6-7 years ago, and their POWER amplifiers are just simply bad *** amps.

Subwoofers: I can only recommend ok quality subs because I don't think he's trying to spend the money that wopuld be necessary for a JL W6 , which again would be more than enough for his needs.

In theory, I do not like mixing and matching amps and subs, because when you have companies like Rockford and JL that make good 1-2 punch amp sub combos, then its safer to go with those than an off brand company.

gain, I def thank you for chiming in, its good to have diverse opinions, but what happens if you're wrong. What happens if he gets them, and they sound like a$$, and he's like da*n, I should've never went with that off brand company. That's why we are sticking to brand names that don't cost an arm and a leg, but will still get good sound. In the end, if you want GREAT sound, you just have to pony up the dough!

I can understand not trusting a brand not heard of. **** I was once that way too. I used to run all JL Amps, despite being told there is better for the money. Eventually I switched to Sundown, a SAZ1500. That single SAZ1500 blew away a pair of JL 1000/1s in SQ, power output, and most important to me, effciency.

You could put that Rockford up, they are both great amps, no doubt. But the Sundown has much better customer service (you may know the people but majority of people do not know Rockford Asscociates), while with Jacob he is the only one you talk to, and I would be shocked if he didn't anwser you back within 2-3 hours with full response helping you. Also the Sundowns comes with a 2 year warrenty, and a 5 year discount if you manage to blow something up and its your fault. Lastly, his amps were warrentied to .5 ohms until people tried to do that with weak electricals. But his amps are battle proven to play daily at .5 ohms, and proven to burp at .17 ohms. Can Rockford amps do that?

As for the PG RSDs, well the reviews are EVERYWHERE about how great of a budget component set this is. Car Audio and magazine gave them a huge rating, along with tons and tons of people on the audio forums using them with great success, especially with deadened doors.

Now the Maw sub, there is not a ton of review on this. But take some time to do reviews and you will find many people have been overally satisfied with this sub. After all it is only $77, if he didn't like it, which I think he would love it, he could sell it for probally almost what he paid.

On most audio forums, Kenwood, Infinity, Sony, are rarley used. JL is more common, they have great quality subs without a doubt, but pricey. Check out some audio forums and Sundown is bowed down to, Mach Audio is reputable name, and like always the RSDs are a budget favorite by tons of people. In fact check out a MECA, IASCA, or DB Drag event, I highly doubt you will name of the above brands used, besides maybe a Kenwood headunit. You will mostly "off brand", as you liek to say, equipment. In fact an "off-brand" sub and amps are winning all the competitions, with Sundown Amps being almost everywhere now.

Without a doubt in my mind I know what I reccomended will sound just as good if not better (I think it'd sound better) as if he went with JL components and amps. I can't compare the Maw to the W6, I would think the W6 would prevail but it is nearly triple the Maws price. I think the W6 is a good choice as well, but pushes his budget up more. But without a doubt the Sundown 100.4 would dominate a JL 450/4, be more efficient, and gives your more tuning options, and the PGs are probally comparable to the mid-level JLs components.

Again these are not off-brand companies, they are merely companies not big enough to spend millions on advertisment and are not sold at retail outlets. JL started off just like these companies and grew over time

[vballer22]

Can't say much for the sub and amp as I don't know much about them, but for the price the PG's are great speakers, and I say that because I owned a couple pairs that were in my old honda element. But that's for the price. I'd say that *gasp* many sony speakers sound as good if not better in the highs, and I mean the full range sonys sound as good as the component PG's. But for the price and quality they're great speakers. My audio shop that I advertise for installed a sundown amp in one of their show cars, but to be honest I dont remember the sub or even the amp model. It sounded pretty good, I did notice however that it was very efficient, that struck me right off.

[rjdmmfl1]

I can understand not trusting a brand not heard of. **** I was once that way too. I used to run all JL Amps, despite being told there is better for the money. Eventually I switched to Sundown, a SAZ1500. That single SAZ1500 blew away a pair of JL 1000/1s in SQ, power output, and most important to me, effciency.

You could put that Rockford up, they are both great amps, no doubt. But the Sundown has much better customer service (you may know the people but majority of people do not know Rockford Asscociates), while with Jacob he is the only one you talk to, and I would be shocked if he didn't anwser you back within 2-3 hours with full response helping you. Also the Sundowns comes with a 2 year warrenty, and a 5 year discount if you manage to blow something up and its your fault. Lastly, his amps were warrentied to .5 ohms until people tried to do that with weak electricals. But his amps are battle proven to play daily at .5 ohms, and proven to burp at .17 ohms. Can Rockford amps do that?

As for the PG RSDs, well the reviews are EVERYWHERE about how great of a budget component set this is. Car Audio and magazine gave them a huge rating, along with tons and tons of people on the audio forums using them with great success, especially with deadened doors.

Now the Maw sub, there is not a ton of review on this. But take some time to do reviews and you will find many people have been overally satisfied with this sub. After all it is only $77, if he didn't like it, which I think he would love it, he could sell it for probally almost what he paid.

On most audio forums, Kenwood, Infinity, Sony, are rarley used. JL is more common, they have great quality subs without a doubt, but pricey. Check out some audio forums and Sundown is bowed down to, Mach Audio is reputable name, and like always the RSDs are a budget favorite by tons of people. In fact check out a MECA, IASCA, or DB Drag event, I highly doubt you will name of the above brands used, besides maybe a Kenwood headunit. You will mostly "off brand", as you liek to say, equipment. In fact an "off-brand" sub and amps are winning all the competitions, with Sundown Amps being almost everywhere now.

Without a doubt in my mind I know what I reccomended will sound just as good if not better (I think it'd sound better) as if he went with JL components and amps. I can't compare the Maw to the W6, I would think the W6 would prevail but it is nearly triple the Maws price. I think the W6 is a good choice as well, but pushes his budget up more. But without a doubt the Sundown 100.4 would dominate a JL 450/4, be more efficient, and gives your more tuning options, and the PGs are probally comparable to the mid-level JLs components.

Again these are not off-brand companies, they are merely companies not big enough to spend millions on advertisment and are not sold at retail outlets. JL started off just like these companies and grew over time

First off, this is fun .. I like good dialogue instead of nasty bickering, thanks for being a stand up dude regarding your input and advice.

Second, I stated in another post that no company makes great everything. You mentioned JL components, but no one said anything about JL components. I wouldn't put rockford or JL components in my car because they don't make great speakers. Boston makes great speakers (I'm running Boston Pro 60's), but they don't make great subs and amps. Rockford makes great top of the line subs and amps (Power series), but their speakers are garbage. Alpine makes great headunits, and everything else ranges from OK to good.

And that's just the top name brands I can think of regarding their specialty and not so specialty products. I agree about Sony and Kenwood, but I put them there for the sake of completion regarding brand products to show how they ranked against other brand products.

There's a speaker company (name forgets me right now) that I hear makes the absolute best speakers in the business, but the name escapes me for a reason. NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THAT COMPANY, and the few people that do don't matter to the public at large.

Regarding amps stable down to .5 ohms... well, not since Rockford's competition series have the even made speakers that handle low ohms like that. i know for a fact that they do not believe setups should be run that low for daily used setups. The T2 "could" take 1600 watts from the T15001-bd at 1 ohm, but who runs them like that, unless you're at a competition? No daily car driven (that cares for his system) would blast his system at those low ohm loads. And since Rockford moved away from the competition aspect and focused more on expanding the product line for the range of daily consumers, they haven't focused on making amps stable into those low ohm loads.

Its all about where you want to put all your marbles.. all of these companies you mentioned are small companies with a particular focus, that was JL and Rockford 20 years ago, but since then, they've expanded, and focused on the bottom line a little more (not that that's a good thing, and its partially what almost ruined RF 7 years ago)... to expand means to chage focus, and that's what they did. SUNDOWN sells like, what, 10 products, so obviously, with a company that small, you can do almost anything you want regarding equipment design, but in the end, " they still don't make no money".. gramatically incorrect for a reason.

Ok, that's enough on the comparisons between big and small speaker companies... it's been years since RF won at the major audio competitions, and with their curent focus, their products may never win again!

For the record, I could suggest digital designs for subwoofers or stetsom for amplifiers, but again, I would probably get the same (what the heck are those) looks from folks also
Modified by rjdmmfl1 at 6:39 PM 5/27/2008

[the727kid]

First off, this is fun .. I like good dialouge instead of nasty bickering, thanks for being a stand up dude regarding your input and advice.

Second, I stated in another post that no company makes great everything. You mentioned JL components, but no one said anything about JL components. I wouldn't put rockford or JL components in my car because they don't make great speakers. Boston makes great speakers (I'm running Boston Pro 60's), but they don't make great subs and amps. Rockford makes great top of the line subs and amps (Power series), but their speakers are garbage. Alpine makes great headunits, and everything else ranges from OK to good.

And that's just the top name brands I can think of regarding their specialty and not so specialty products. I agree about Sony and Kenwood, but I put them there for the sake of completion regarding brand products to show how they ranked against other brand products.

There's a speaker company (name forgets me right now) that I hear makes the absolute best speakers in the business, but the name escapes me for a reason. NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THAT COMPANY, and the few people that do don't matter to the public at large.

Regarding amps stable down to .5 ohms... well, not since Rockford's competition series have the even made speakers that handle low ohms like that. i know for a fact that they do not believe setups should be run that low for daily used setups. The T2 "could" take 1600 watts from the T15001-bd at 1 ohm, but who runs them like that, unless you're at a competition? No daily car driven (that cares for his system) would blast his system at those low ohm loads. And since Rockford moved away from the competition aspect and focused more on expanding the product line for the range of daily consumers, they haven't focused on making amps stable into those low ohm loads.

Its all about where you want to put all your marbles.. all of these companies you mentioned are small companies with a particular focus, that was JL and Rockford 20 years ago, but since then, they've expanded, and focused on the bottom line a little more (not that that's a good thing, and its partially what almost ruined RF 7 years ago)... to expand means to chage focus, and that's what they did. SUNDOWN sells like, what, 10 products, so obviously, with a company that small, you can do almost anything you want regarding equipment design, but in the end, " they still don't make no money".. gramatically incorrect for a reason.

Ok, that's enough on the comparisons between big and small speaker companies... it's been years since RF won at the major audio competitions, and with their curent focus, their products may never win again!

For the record, I could suggest digital designs for subwoofers or stetsom for amplifiers, but again, I would probably get the same (what the heck are those) looks from folks also

x2 It's good to have a nice audio converation. Some car forums I am, people are just plain out ignorant it's not even worth my input lol.

I agree no company has a perfect all around area (although some companies are pretty well all round, but those are very expensive companies). Only Bostons I have heard where the Z6s in my buddies car, and they absolutley shined in his car, with horrible locations and no deadning, very very impressive.

Are you thinking of Rainbow? A lot of people consider them above many others. Infact I used to run their Germanium Line, about their middle line (still $500 for a set, highest is pushing 10,000$ I believe). I loved those speakers, I haven't heard tweeters as nice as those, and the mids really were impressive as well.

Yea there is not too many people willing to run that low of an ohm load, but it does sure impress people ... I had some fun running my 2 1500s that low... got very loud lol.

But one thing... Sundown sells ALOT... Jacob sells amps quicker than they can be produced, I think he is about to be back-stocked for the second time on the SAZ3000Ds and they have been out lil over a year maybe? I also see the 1500s every time I turn around.

Haha I think this guy would get scared with the prices of Digital Designs

[tarek]

This is a great discussion...I'm really enjoying reading it (and learning some things too!). A bit of a newb question here, but both the727kid and vballer22 mentioned the efficiency of the amp. How exactly do you notice or hear efficiency? Wouldn't an amp that's less efficient sound the same except for being a little quieter?

[rjdmmfl1]

in technical terms, efficiency usually deals with the input power compared to output power, or, how much of the power going to the amp is actually converted to power driving a component (speaker or subwoofer), and how much is lost as heat. Rockford's POWER amplifiers are notoriously efficient.

Regarding how one "hears" efficiency, I believe "the727 kid" is referring to how clean the music (or bass in the case of an amp to a sub) comes through at lower volumes and gain levels vs having to turn up the gain just to get good clean bass without distortion... but I won't answer for 727, I'm sure he'll chime in on what he meant soon ...

[the727kid]

in technical terms, efficiency usually deals with the input power compared to output power, or, how much of the power going to the amp is actually converted to power driving a component (speaker or subwoofer), and how much is lost as heat. Rockford's POWER amplifiers are notoriously efficient.

Regarding how one "hears" efficiency, I believe "the727 kid" is referring to how clean the music (or bass in the case of an amp to a sub) comes through at lower volumes and gain levels vs having to turn up the gain just to get good clean bass without distortion... but I won't answer for 727, I'm sure he'll chime in on what he meant soon ...

Correct in the first paragraph.

What you are referring to is the pre-out voltage, that has to do with the HU.

What I am referring to by effciency is how much amperage the amp draws. The more efficient it is, the more power it can produce with the less strain on the electrical system.

[rjdmmfl1]

Correct in the first paragraph.

What you are referring to is the pre-out voltage, that has to do with the HU.

What I am referring to by effciency is how much amperage the amp draws. The more efficient it is, the more power it can produce with the less strain on the electrical system.

speaking of preout voltage... this is why I picked up the new Kenwood 8120 and sold my Avic D3. 5 volt preouts vs 2 vlt preouts... Many alpine headunits come with 5 volt preouts also... what do you usually recommend to folks for heaunits if they will be installing amps?

[the727kid]

speaking of preout voltage... this is why I picked up the new Kenwood 8120 and sold my Avic D3. 5 volt preouts vs 2 vlt preouts... Many alpine headunits come with 5 volt preouts also... what do you usually recommend to folks for heaunits if they will be installing amps?

Ahh a very touchy subject! Many people are on both sides with this. But basically if you set your gains properly and install your system correctly it doesn't matter. Which theorectilly correct. But the world isn't perfect. With HF drivers, you can hear about any noise that is in the system. I have a very minute noise in my horns that you can barley hear at idle with volume at 0, but it's there. Everything is about as perfect as I can make it, and it's still there. Now with an 8volt pre-out I probally could avoid this, just because of the lower input sensitivty. So I guess you could put me in the higher the pre-out voltage the better, but it doesn't buy or sell me on the deck, nor should it any one. I run a Alpine-9887 because of its massive options and ability to run a 3-way active set up. When I get an A/C I will probally get an Eclipse AVN6620 because of it's probally the best option for its price in its catagory. BTW I have ran 2v, 4v, 5v, and 8v headunits, and I have had success with all. So in the end, pick the headunit that includes the features you need.

[vballer22]

Ahh a very touchy subject! Many people are on both sides with this. But basically if you set your gains properly and install your system correctly it doesn't matter. Which theorectilly correct. But the world isn't perfect. With HF drivers, you can hear about any noise that is in the system. I have a very minute noise in my horns that you can barley hear at idle with volume at 0, but it's there. Everything is about as perfect as I can make it, and it's still there. Now with an 8volt pre-out I probally could avoid this, just because of the lower input sensitivty. So I guess you could put me in the higher the pre-out voltage the better, but it doesn't buy or sell me on the deck, nor should it any one. I run a Alpine-9887 because of its massive options and ability to run a 3-way active set up. When I get an A/C I will probally get an Eclipse AVN6620 because of it's probally the best option for its price in its catagory. BTW I have ran 2v, 4v, 5v, and 8v headunits, and I have had success with all. So in the end, pick the headunit that includes the features you need.

Oooooh great point. Most people overlook the voltage WAY too much, and then blame it on the quality of the rca interconnects and such. This is reason why I reccomended the alpine HU in my first post here. It's so CLEAN. Honestly, I know I havnt heard the whole spectrum yet, but In my opinion Alpine makes absolutely amazing sound processors in their units, and above all the sound output and shaping is incredible.

And earlier I said I heard the efficiency of the amp, just to clarify some people have told me I'm hearing the sub's quality, some people agree, and some people just call me crazy. But theres just something to it that you can hear when an amp and a sub are working in perfect harmony. Like Doc's T2 and power amp, or a JL W7 3 ohm sub and amp.

[the727kid]

Oooooh great point. Most people overlook the voltage WAY too much, and then blame it on the quality of the rca interconnects and such. This is reason why I reccomended the alpine HU in my first post here. It's so CLEAN. Honestly, I know I havnt heard the whole spectrum yet, but In my opinion Alpine makes absolutely amazing sound processors in their units, and above all the sound output and shaping is incredible.

And earlier I said I heard the efficiency of the amp, just to clarify some people have told me I'm hearing the sub's quality, some people agree, and some people just call me crazy. But theres just something to it that you can hear when an amp and a sub are working in perfect harmony. Like Doc's T2 and power amp, or a JL W7 3 ohm sub and amp.

What you hear has nothing to do with efficiency. The sound on the sub is too dependent on the car and the box. The only realy way to compare an amps "sound" is to put the same sub in the same car and match the exact power the sub is getting. Honestly, I doubt anyone would notice an audible difference. (Of course those big Home Audio Audiophile guys might, )
Modified by the727kid at 10:23 AM 5/28/2008

[tarek]

Those are some great answers to my question I'm learning lots here! lol. I've got another question tho (and I am sorry to the op for thread jacking) . Higher preout voltage is obviously better...you get nicer, cleaner sound. But what I was wondering, how do you guys set up your sub systems after it's physically installed? How do you find the perfect gain settings and such? I've never actually installed/configured a sub system before, so this is something I've been wondering about. I was going to ask when the time came for me to do so, but now seems as good a time as any

[the727kid]

Those are some great answers to my question I'm learning lots here! lol. I've got another question tho (and I am sorry to the op for thread jacking) . Higher preout voltage is obviously better...you get nicer, cleaner sound. But what I was wondering, how do you guys set up your sub systems after it's physically installed? How do you find the perfect gain settings and such? I've never actually installed/configured a sub system before, so this is something I've been wondering about. I was going to ask when the time came for me to do so, but now seems as good a time as any

Well there are 3 ways to do it. First way is by ear, turn up the gain until you hear distortion and turn it back down some. Second way is by a DMM using the OHMs law. You figure out how much wattage you want at the ohm load the sub is wired at, use the forumla and figure out voltage. (There is tutorial for this on JL's website. Lastly is using an Oscilloscope, which is the most accurate, it actually shows on a graph the signal and you can see when the signal begins to clip.

[tarek]

Well there are 3 ways to do it. First way is by ear, turn up the gain until you hear distortion and turn it back down some. Second way is by a DMM using the OHMs law. You figure out how much wattage you want at the ohm load the sub is wired at, use the forumla and figure out voltage. (There is tutorial for this on JL's website. Lastly is using an Oscilloscope, which is the most accurate, it actually shows on a graph the signal and you can see when the signal begins to clip.

Cool thanks! Doesn't sound too hard then...easier than I expected. Since I don't have a Oscilloscope lying around I'd probably go for option 1 or 2