looking at q45's to buy

[matt]

i am looking at 2 q45's to buy, but im not sure wich one i should go for.

the first is a 1993 Q45t. fully loaded and has everyhting. but has 160K miles. its selling for $3850

the second is a 1992 Q45. sun roof, leather, has good features, just doesnt have some of the stuff the t has. the owner also added a $1500 sound system to it. it has 140k miles and is $4000.

obviously money is not the problem cus the prices are so close, im just wondering what is better. are the features that come with the touring package worth the extra 20k miles? or is the base model good enough? thanks for the help.

[elwesso]

First thing you MUST, MUST, MUST know is if the timing guides were done...... Basically, in the 90-93 Qs, the timing chain guides were made out of plastic, and they break over time..... Some last a long time, some dont..... If they havent been done, or your not sure, and you still want the car, just have them take off 1700 off the price, since thats about how much it costs....... If you dont have it done, the engine will self destruct...... If the guides fail, you'd be really lucky to get away with a 2500 repair...... This is an interference engine, so if the piston hits the valve, your in for BIG problems.... Most Qs with failed timing guides either become a parts car, or get a take out engine...... Upwards of 3000 to do it right......

But between the 2, id take the 93...... its the most coveted of the 90-93 generation, as it already has the 1st gear start (90-92 start in 2nd)..... Plus, the T model indicates that is has the SUPER HICAS system (fancy way of saying 4 wheel steering)......

I dont know how much difference a regular Q is as opposed to a T model....... maybe someone can chime in there......

Now for the grim part....... Take in mind that your buying a 10 year old car..... if it hasnt been maintained really well, its gonna need a LOT to get back to good condition...... By now, all of its cheap miles are gone, and its gonna need some attention........ Assuming most everything is origional, the suspension is probably shot, transmission is on its last days (unless its new), the engine is a time bomb (without new guides), and some of the electrical components are starting to rot....... If your looking for a more reliable car, I suggest you look into a 94 or 95....... many of the reliability issues from the 90-93 generation were worked out....... But the 93 is said to be the best performing Q45 of the G50 generation (90-96)..... If your looking for more performance, rather than reliability, the 93t will be a perfect match.......

Tell us where you are located, as one of the NICO infinit members would be near you to come and look at it with you......

Spend some time reading the previous posts here, and in the INFINITI ONLINE MECHANIC section........ Youll find out everything youll want to know.......

Finally........ Welcome to NICO!!!!

[elwesso]

Good service records are also key...... Id be very cautious about buying a 10 year old Q with little or no service records......

[matt]

i have acytually seen both these cars. they were taken very good care of and look brand new. im waiting on replies from both of them about the service records and what has been replaced/fixed, and im looking into the timing guides thanks for telling me about that.

i am located in San Francisco. the cars are about 30-45 minutes away.

[elwesso]

There are many people out there on the west coast that im sure would be glad to help.......

Unfortunately, these cars hold up very well cosmetically, so just because its been neglected mechanically wont show...... because they dont require much to keep looking really nice........

If its not on the service records, at least look at the front of the engine...... IF the RTV used to seal the front is a sky blue color, chances are it hasnt been opened.......

[matt]

well i talked to the guy with the 92, and he says he can contact the dealer where he has gotten it serviced and can get all teh service records printed out. he says he got new brakes and shocks last year, and got the transmission flushed. im just waiting on the other one now.

also, im looking at a 1994 J30t with 140k miles for $4000. if it comes down to the fact that this would be better these Q's, ill take it, but i want the power

[Q45tech]

Do you have the capacity to spend $3,000 above the purchase price and $3,000 per year thereafter, is the question you have to ask yourself!

Your standards may not be high [you may not want to spend the money to get or keep the car to near new mechanical standards.

Either car [140k, 160k] is a transmission failure waiting to happen, same with AC, not to mention the guides..............worst case $5,000- $11,000 in repairs if you want to go till 250,000 miles.

I know this is hard to understand but once any car is 25% of new MSRP [say below $10,000] many things are worn out.

Please pay a LOCAL expert to analyse/inspect the choices

[elwesso]

Basically from any way you look at it, the Q is better than the J, except for fuel economy.........

[fxjackso]

Matt-

I'm not a professional tech, and I second the idea of getting an inspection. In addition to the guide issue, check to be certain the full ($(900+) 120,000 service was done. In addition to the expense, another indicator of the seller's diligence.

Also, the tires- a well maintained Q will have 4 V- rated name brand tires, or , as an alternative, H rated Michelin Pilots.

If the A/C has been converted to R-134, unless the full dealer "kit" appears on the service records, you will be rebuilding it in short order.

[elwesso]

Agreed...... If the car doesnt have at least 95H rated tires, something would seem a little fishy.......

It all depends on what you want....... IF you want a Q45 just for transportation....... You can get away with doing all that necessary...... but you wont get any percent of the enjoyment you could........

[Q45tech]

Why would anyone just buy a old used Q for transportation. There are so many less expensive to maintain cars available.

[greg_atlanta]

A lot of owners in SF Bay area report very high service costs from both dealers and independents...... keep that in mind!

If you are not financially prepared to incur a lot of repair expenses then stay away from ANY used luxury car.

Plan to spend $10,000+ in repairs in maintenance on either car over 2-3 years.

[Jesda]

Why would anyone just buy a old used Q for transportation. There are so many less expensive to maintain cars available.

Well, to enjoy their commute, as I do. My 92 Q45 is my main car.

If I spent $3000/yr and keep it to 250,000 miles, and I have 180k now, I'll spend about $10000 by 2006. Paid $4k for the car, so its $14k total.

A new car for $14,000 would be ugly, boring, and mostly lacking in style and performance. What can you get for 15k? A base model Civic? A Hyundai?

All cars are throwaway expenses. Might as well enjoy throwing it away.

-Jesda

[nuQ]

JESDA, COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!!!

so many people i know will turn their nose up at ANY used car with more that 75k miles, but then spend 300-500 a month on a car loan payment, then snicker when someone with a used car has to spend $500 or even a thousand on a repair. they already put that into their car with 2 or 3 monthly payments!!!! there may be months when there is no money put into a used car (or even a year, if real lucky!), all the while a new car owner is making payments and thinking they are so much better off with a new car sitting in the driveway.

always cheaper in short-term and long term buying used (this coming from an ex car salesman!). ***the only exception is when you KNOW that you will be keeping the car for a very long time***

in regards to the used Q matt, have someone who knows what to look for, take a look. the chain-guide issue is a HUGE question in purchase. if they aren't done, and you aren't willing to spend between 1200-2000 to have them changed, walk away. they really are a time-bomb! if you do decide to purchase one of the Q's, take an entire afternoon to search ALL the old maintanence threads on this site, you'll be VERY, VERY glad you did. the advice you receive here is second to none, and that includes mechanics you might know and any infiniti service manager (not including you joe in that group!!!!LOL). i really am so thankfull i found this site before purchasing my Q last Feb.!!!!!!! the Q is such a special car, the best i have ever driven!!! i actually look forward to getting into that leather-clad driver's seat!!!!! allright, i'm gushing!LOL just be carefull, and make sure the Q's were well taken care of, but remember, you WILL be taking even BETTER care to keep it rolling past the 200k mark. if you're up for this endevour,,,,GO FOR IT!!!! you'll be glad you did when you're still pulling hard past 140 mph!!!!!!!!!! Jeff

[elwesso]

Jesda..... That was beautiful..... sniff sniff.......

If you DIY, that opens a WHOLE new book......

Most jobs that you wouldnt even think could be done, can be........ An FSM, a torque wrench, metric sockets and wrenches, and a good set of jack stands or ramps will get you all you need to be....... Ive saved myself 1000 in labor costs, plus parts are dirt cheap from Joe.......

Like I said earlier, what makes these cars the best value is this...... They cost the same OR LESS than ANY luxuary car of its year or mileage, and can be had for thousands less......

The only way I could ever bring myself to spending this kind of money is by considering this car as a hobby, then transportation..... I enjoy driving, and I like cars..... And im gonna get a car I enjoy driving...... If I didnt care about that, Id get a civic or a maxima (no offense max. guys)..... Good, solid cars to get you from pt. a to pt. b with no hassles in between.......

But, if all your looking for is

[Jesda]

I just opened up Excel and started punching numbers. I got my 92 Q on April 15 2003 (tax day, heh!) for $3800 plus about $430 tax/license.

Total for repairs and maintenance after that date rang up to $3079.84

For about $3079 I got five tires, replaced AC compressor, replaced receiver drier, recharged AC, replaced water pump/PS belt, oil changes and filters, three tows (first month of ownership), water pump, radiator checked for clogging, tensioner pulley bearing, XM installation, remote start, keyless entry, tires rotated, sunroof lubed, transmission cooler, fuel pump, fuel control module, fuel filter, coolant, one Bose amplifier, radiator/AC fan switch, four wheel alignment, and brake pads. My total does not include gasoline and injector cleaner fluids.

The only things I did myself are change the radiator cap. Otherwise I paid $55/hr on average for labor.

I bought the car with 169k and now have 181k. 12,000 miles in five months. I think the last owner sold the car knowing things were due.

Last owner already did all but one of the fuel injectors, fuel rail, fuel tank, alternator, fuel pump (he installed a used one, big mistake), heater hoses, egr gasket, shocks, brake pads, balance shaft, belts.

Whats left to do after this? Besides the usual (oil and filter, tires, brake pads and rotors, belts, suspension, bushings, and other wearitems) there's nothing left. I'm having the chain guides done this fall. My first year of ownership should come out to about $5500. Every year after that I suspect wont exceed $2000. Suspension inspected and in good shape. Cooling system inspected and in good shape. Motor in good shape. My total rings up to

I drive my car around town a lot, and thats a good thing because if anything fails, I'll know it before taking a long trip. A couple weeks ago I drove from Spokane WA to St Louis MO with only one problem... a flat tire five miles from my destination.

I love my Q. Had I not purchased it, I would have financed a Nissan Sentra for $14000. Subtract $3200 for my 93 Honda Accord. Add 15% interest (Im young and have almost no credit). Add 8.25% sales tax.

I would have been making payments on a total loan of $13443 for five years at $224 per month. Add full coverage insurance to that, and I'd be at $350/mo for insurance instead of the $170 I pay now (tons of tickets, wrecks from back in the day).

Maintenance for the Q: $2000/yr.Insurance for the Q: $2040/yr.Purchase Price: $4230 w/T&LTotal over five years: $24430

Maintenance for the Sentra: $200/yrInsurance for the Sentra: $4200/yrPayments: $2688/yrTotal over five years: $35440

So its an extra $11,000 for a 2004 Nissan Sentra 1.8L 4-banger with half the power, front wheel drive, none of the handling, none of the luxury, none of the performance, none of the room, and none of the class.

I thought this through. I LOVE MY Q!

-Jesda

[maxnix]

Balance shafts? Where are these located?

[Jesda]

Dunno. Receipt just said "Balance Shaft As Required". Fee was all labor $40.

[Jesda]

Oh yeah, if I did my own labor my 5-year costs would drop by about $8000.

[Q45tech]

Congradulations. Hope it works out for you [180K>250k].

My worst year was $6,000 from 135K>165k [from a duplicate $5700 [100k>135k]. After I learned what I was doing and planned replacements in advance [learned how to secure parts at a discount and opportunistic buying]. I never spend more than $3,000/yr during the past 4 year. Ican assure you I changed things most would never consider. {rear subframe, bearings, hibs, calipers, shocks, kingpins, ac condenser, HVAC inside fan, sunroof seal, differential, driveshaft, motor mounts, suspension arms, entire exhaust system, brake line hoses.

Good $6,000 in almost new parts for $750 [partners on a wreck].

$23,700 in 155,000 miles is 15.3 cents per mile......roughly $4,000 per year on average............can't drive much of a car for $333 per month.

With DIY and a 25% discount from Scottsdale [better some junkyard or ebay parts].........Many times better to find a wreck or blown Q and purchase it [$750-$1,000] for parts [if you have the room] and know what you are looking for.

I have SPARES: wheels, an alternator, ecu and tcu, every electronic module, entire dash/gauge cluster, spare Bose and speakers, HVac , side mirrors, ashtray, visors, FP controller, headlight lenses, you name it in my personnel inventory.

[Q451990]

I have SPARES: wheels, an alternator, ecu and tcu, every electronic module, entire dash/gauge cluster, spare Bose and speakers, HVac , side mirrors, ashtray, visors, FP controller, headlight lenses, you name it in my personnel inventory.

Man... I'd like to see that room sometime. I have some spares, but nothing like that. ECU, TCU, Bose, Wheels (although they're ugly as hell), seat motors and control, tail lights (in hopes of developing an LED option) Side markers...

Heath

[Q45tech]

They maybe ugly [use the 94 polished ones] but they don't bend in 2 years [6 months] like most aftermarket and even the brand new oem wheels]. Forgot KS and injectors, ABS, CAs, MAFSold my used spare transmission for $500, no spare engine but there must be 6-7 at the local Japanese takeout place [$1300] and there are 2 other places in town.At least the new all around shocks will last another 40k.

Gotta find a new paint job Q to transfer everything.

[EWT]

All else equal, I'd take a 93 over a 92. You get the first gear start, you might have the metal timing chain guides, and you get one more year of revised and improved parts. They seem to be fairly rare too. I looked for another one for a long time and never found one in decent condition.

[campbpt]

Matt,Hey bro, go with the '93 t. Honestly, the "t" part isn't a big deal. It does make for a better Q45, but it doesn't alter performance considerably. You should get the '93 because it was the best of that generation of Q's. Basically, the kinks had been all worked out by '93. So, I'd go with the '93. Still, keep in mind that the 90 - 93 Q's have pretty flimsy timing chain guides. You'll want to get that checked out if you buy it. One last thing...get a Q! G20's, J30's, etc. are cool and all, but the Q is the flagship! I have a '95 Q, and it's the smoothest, pimpest car I've ever owned. Later.

[Jesda]

After this one kicks the bucket or I find a good deal I'll take up a 95 Q. Maybe even a 99 by then.

Oh wait, I'll be done with law school... BRAND NEW M45!!!!