Little Nissan and Weight Reduction

[Jacko3]

Hello Folks:

After disgracing many bigger cars so far with my little nissan, I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that weight reduction is perhaps one of the best ways to increase gas mileage and improve performance.

A naturally aspirated G that can loose at least 300 - 500 pounds of real weight, can possibly take on or beat a regular G with a stillen supercharger.

Last night, on an inclined hill----maybe 5 - 10 degrees form the horizontal, a 1990 Model Mercedes S-Class 430 or 500 could not outrun my little nissan. In fact, as i reached the 3rd gear---where I have the most power, I began to pull away from him---1 car length away, and this was the big surprise. He could not keep up!

When we got to the top of the hill, we both slowed down and the guy was busy looking at my little nissan as if it was some type of miracle.

Then this morning, a Nissan Titan V-8 with after market exhaust, decided to try out the little nissan. He was so behind my tail that I thought he was going to run over me underneath it. When we took off at the light, it appeared he held up until i hit my third gear, and then I started pulling away from him, slowly but surely and the gap became a good three car lengths away. When we got to the next light, there was respect. He did not try to drag anymore with me because getting a second whooping would not be in the interest of his image and person. LOL!! However, when we got to the next light, smoke was coming from my clutch with a heavy burning smell--maybe i fried my clutch in that effort, but the car still runs great. I am changing my oil at the end fo this month or even next weekend. LOL!

So, why did a 1.6 litre engine car with less than 110 horsepower, if at all it has that amount of power to begin with, beat cars with 4.5 litre and 5.7 litre V-6 and/or V-8 engines with over 250 horses a piece????? The answer is weight. Weight is the worst culprit of performance.

I hear people laugh and call the Mitsubishi Evolution a kiddie car. They deride it like its a disease, and yet, there are few 6 and sometimes many 8 cylinders that cannot keep up with it. The Evo has a weight advanatage that should not be ignored inspite of its kiddie car status.

Weight reducation, my good friends, is a credible way to go. If i told some one that a 110 horepower car can out run a 250 horsepower car, they probably would not beleive me. The G can benefit with light weight materials, a great deal.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I hear you about the diet the G needs to go on.

I would like to get a very light Nissan and put a VQ35de or HR in it... It would be sweet!

DJ

[tollboothwilley]

the question is whether it would stand up to the heavier engine...

how would you integrate the g35/350z ECU to work with a different car as well? Wouldn't there be a lot of issues?

[BrandAidDesignG35]

There have been V8's swapped into G35s, and also I've seen a VQ tucked in a 240sx... SR20 swaps are a dime a dozen. Drop a new engine in there Jacko, you'll have abeast on your hands.

I truly agree with your statements, how else would a VW rabbit smoke my G? Why would my G smoke older V8's at the drag strip? Weight my friend, the enemy of acceleration.

Many factors can contribute to power/weight ratios, but at the end of the day, if you safely lighten your car, you'll have a solid car for the track... easy & cheap power...

[Jacko3]

With my new found power, I now harrass slower bigger car---especially SUVs, on the road and they seem perplexed at why the driver of the little nissan (Jacko) is asking for a whooping. Well, they always make the mistake of trying to drag with me until they realize to their chagrin how slow they are.

The B-13 is so light that you can literally pick up its manual transmission on your hand/shoulder/head and walk half a mile with it for a serious work out. Most of all, it is cheap to buy a used one---$350. A used 1.6 litre engine is less than $600. So, for about $1,200---parts and labor, I coul literally blow a transmission and engine every year and still be happy.

I am very certain that a well tuned Nissan Versa could achieve the same as well.

My good friends, weight is an enemy, a terrible enemy of performance. Also heat is an enemy as well.

[ldstang50]

Weight was one of the first things I tackled in my evo. The car came I believe just over 3100lbs, with no gas. On my first race I pulled the interior and went 12.5 with it and she had 280whp or so. I actually pulled more weight out of it and had the car weighed a few months later and with 3/4 tank and me (160lbs) she weight was 3020lbs. So in essence I pulled or replaced 200+lbs worth of crap in the car.Weight savings not only help a car with acceleartion, but also braking and handling. Cutting weight is the single most important thing (I think) you can do to make your car faster.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

It's funny when you see their faces in your rear view, and even funnier when they don't bother at the next light...

Go little nissan GO!!! You and I should meet Jacko... we could have a lil' Nissan Showdown on your secret track.

[Jacko3]

Well done! How does it feel owning a 350Z and an Evo?? Whats the difference in performance and feel? Why do you like both cars?

[Jacko3]

Thats right! On my secret track, I am still king. This is where my G is king over my little nissan.

Oh, my little nissan is a 2 dr with back seats. If I removed the backseats or even the passenger side seats, there would be very little competition with the little nissan at every light because it would be even quicker.

I mean, the weight reduction theory is so pronounced even in the little nissan that she actually gets quicker as she depletes the amount of gas in the tank. So, I only try to keep her full between 60 - 70 percent of the tank in order to lighten her load a little, while maintaining a good level of gas in case we have another fuel shortage unexpectedly. And, she still gets between 30 - 34 MPG on the highway.

What have I done to her, I threw in a K&N air filter, re-adjusted idle settings to 18 BTDC, gave her a good tune-up, and the rest is history. I had no idea she was this quick until January 2009. And she has 252K on the engine and transmission.

[G37 Man]

sounds like you finally broke her in,now she is a true racing car,enjoy!

[Sentientbydesign]

I hear people laugh and call the Mitsubishi Evolution a kiddie car. They deride it like its a disease, and yet, there are few 6 and sometimes many 8 cylinders that cannot keep up with it. The Evo has a weight advanatage that should not be ignored inspite of its kiddie car status.

Wow, so I talk about weight reduction for months and you come now as if it was your epiphany

The problem with the Evo is that the 08 weighed as much as a G!!!

As they have added more features, technology and power, they've also added weight. If I'm not mistaken, the early generations weighed in well under 3k lbs. The 08 came in at 3,517 lbs.

One of the issues is that Mitsubishi started using aluminum suspension parts, then decided to cut cost and went back to steel.

Hello Folks:

After disgracing many bigger cars so far with my little nissan, I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that weight reduction is perhaps one of the best ways to increase gas mileage and improve performance.

A naturally aspirated G that can loose at least 300 - 500 pounds of real weight, can possibly take on or beat a regular G with a stillen supercharger.

Last night, on an inclined hill----maybe 5 - 10 degrees form the horizontal, a 1990 Model Mercedes S-Class 430 or 500 could not outrun my little nissan. In fact, as i reached the 3rd gear---where I have the most power, I began to pull away from him---1 car length away, and this was the big surprise. He could not keep up!

When we got to the top of the hill, we both slowed down and the guy was busy looking at my little nissan as if it was some type of miracle.

Then this morning, a Nissan Titan V-8 with after market exhaust, decided to try out the little nissan. He was so behind my tail that I thought he was going to run over me underneath it. When we took off at the light, it appeared he held up until i hit my third gear, and then I started pulling away from him, slowly but surely and the gap became a good three car lengths away. When we got to the next light, there was respect. He did not try to drag anymore with me because getting a second whooping would not be in the interest of his image and person. LOL!! However, when we got to the next light, smoke was coming from my clutch with a heavy burning smell--maybe i fried my clutch in that effort, but the car still runs great. I am changing my oil at the end fo this month or even next weekend. LOL!

So, why did a 1.6 litre engine car with less than 110 horsepower, if at all it has that amount of power to begin with, beat cars with 4.5 litre and 5.7 litre V-6 and/or V-8 engines with over 250 horses a piece????? The answer is weight. Weight is the worst culprit of performance.

I hear people laugh and call the Mitsubishi Evolution a kiddie car. They deride it like its a disease, and yet, there are few 6 and sometimes many 8 cylinders that cannot keep up with it. The Evo has a weight advanatage that should not be ignored inspite of its kiddie car status.

Weight reducation, my good friends, is a credible way to go. If i told some one that a 110 horepower car can out run a 250 horsepower car, they probably would not beleive me. The G can benefit with light weight materials, a great deal.

[Jacko3]

Oh Nate, great one, it takes a while for some of us (including me) to see these things and come to terms with it. The issue of weight as it affects performance, became so glaring and completely bewildering to me, this weekend than at any other time in my driving experience. At one point this weekend, I actually had to park my car on the side of the road with the emergency blinkers on, and walked around it to convince myself that I was not driving a rocket. It felt totally unreal.

If you think my experience last weekend was impressive, this evening, a 2006 Chrysler Sebring, could not smoke me---I actually gave him about 3 feet ahead of me and yet he just couldn't pull away---i was actually gaining on him. I bet he was disappointed and angry.

Nothing is more satisfying than to be driving slowly and gently, and someone in a so-called powerful ride comes along road-raging me, and flashing their lights at me, and then suddenly, i bolt away leaving them in my dust in my rear viiew mirror. After slowing down again, they never seem to have the guts to pass me or flash their lights at me again----they just stay put, behind me doing the normal speed limit. It brings a great grin and smile to my face. They just never expect that my little nissan would make them look that bad.

[ldstang50]

The problem with the Evo is that the 08 weighed as much as a G!!!

As they have added more features, technology and power, they've also added weight. If I'm not mistaken, the early generations weighed in well under 3k lbs. The 08 came in at 3,517 lbs.

I was one of the first Evo owners in the country buying an 03 in early Sept. The curb weight of that car was about 3200lbs

One of the issues is that Mitsubishi started using aluminum suspension parts, then decided to cut cost and went back to steel.

In 04, Mitsu came out with the Evo RS, it was a 'stripper' Evo with no power windows, locks, no rear wiper, no HIDs, no intercooler sprayer, optional AC and diffs all the way around. This was called the jungle package. You can only get it in red or white. You can tell an RS because the door handles and mirrors will be black. This car weighed about 3100lbsIn 05 Mitsu added the MR which came with the aluminum roof, lighter bbs wheels, 6spd, ACD and LSD, Bilsteins, a larger turbo and more power. The 05 turbo uses a 10.5 However even with the lighter roof, wheels and suspension, the MR with out leather weighed the same as the GSR (regular model) because the 6pd transmission was heavier. In 05 the curb weight of an Evo was just north of 3300lbs. The 05 RS had the aluminum roof but regular suspension and wheels and 5spd so it was the lightest of the bunch, but the suspension was designed for the car with the steel roof not aluminum, so it didn't match up well with the RS, even though it was about 50lbs lighter than the GSR and MR.In 06, the Evo became the IX and was fitted with an even slightly larger turbo and electonically controlled adjustable cam gear on the exhaust side. As far as weight, I'm not completely sure, but I know it wasn't over 3500lbs.Now the new Evo X weighs over 3500lbs, but it also has as many gadgets and gizmos as a fighter jet

[kmckis1029]

i wanted to get rid of my full sized spare tire to drop about 30lbs.. but the trunk liner in my G is so thin as it just sits on the spare for support... ima have to get a thicker aftermarket trunk liner...

once i finish with engine upgrades ima get lighter rims... should be about 15lbs less a rim... so 60lbs and 30lbs... thats almost 100lbs less with no cabin stripping... then add a lighter exhaust and i'll be over 100lbs lighter...

[Jacko3]

Thats right!

[ldstang50]

once i finish with engine upgrades ima get lighter rims... should be about 15lbs less a rim... so 60lbs and 30lbs... thats almost 100lbs less with no cabin stripping...

AND thats unsprung weight so you won't alter suspension geometry and most importantly its rotational mass. lighter wheels are easier to spin.

then add a lighter exhaust and i'll be over 100lbs lighter...

you getting the titanium one that weighs like 4lbs? if so you a balla!!

I remember watching a car show on speed a few years ago. They had an RSX and they were doing mods to it. They did a baseline dyno pull, then after EVERY mod they did, they dynoed it. They dyno'd after they swaped to a lighter flywheel and 'gained' hp. Then they added larger rotors and 'lost' hp.Now most of us know they didn't actually gain or lose hp, they reduced or increase drivetrain losses in getting the power to the wheels.

[Sentientbydesign]

I was one of the first Evo owners in the country buying an 03 in early Sept. The curb weight of that car was about 3200lbs

In 04, Mitsu came out with the Evo RS, it was a 'stripper' Evo with no power windows, locks, no rear wiper, no HIDs, no intercooler sprayer, optional AC and diffs all the way around. This was called the jungle package. You can only get it in red or white. You can tell an RS because the door handles and mirrors will be black. This car weighed about 3100lbsIn 05 Mitsu added the MR which came with the aluminum roof, lighter bbs wheels, 6spd, ACD and LSD, Bilsteins, a larger turbo and more power. The 05 turbo uses a 10.5 However even with the lighter roof, wheels and suspension, the MR with out leather weighed the same as the GSR (regular model) because the 6pd transmission was heavier. In 05 the curb weight of an Evo was just north of 3300lbs. The 05 RS had the aluminum roof but regular suspension and wheels and 5spd so it was the lightest of the bunch, but the suspension was designed for the car with the steel roof not aluminum, so it didn't match up well with the RS, even though it was about 50lbs lighter than the GSR and MR.In 06, the Evo became the IX and was fitted with an even slightly larger turbo and electonically controlled adjustable cam gear on the exhaust side. As far as weight, I'm not completely sure, but I know it wasn't over 3500lbs.Now the new Evo X weighs over 3500lbs, but it also has as many gadgets and gizmos as a fighter jet

Thanks for the history lesson. I still want one. I was referring to the older generation Evos for the sum 3k lbs weight. Wikipedia showed the first gen weighing in under 2800lbs.

i wanted to get rid of my full sized spare tire to drop about 30lbs.. but the trunk liner in my G is so thin as it just sits on the spare for support... ima have to get a thicker aftermarket trunk liner...

once i finish with engine upgrades ima get lighter rims... should be about 15lbs less a rim... so 60lbs and 30lbs... thats almost 100lbs less with no cabin stripping... then add a lighter exhaust and i'll be over 100lbs lighter...

Check out my weight reduction index in the Mod Database. I think all of the trunk stuff weighed about 50lbs (spare, jack, carpet, plastic moulding).

Where are you going to get rims that weight 15lbs less than stock? How much do the stocks weigh? I seem to remember the older 17s and 18s were in the mid 20lb range. My forged 19s are 19/21lbs (based on unverified info). I would be careful with racing rims as they are not designed to deal with stuff like speed bumps or potholes and can easily deform or crack.

[Jacko3]

Simply removing the cats and swapping out the OEM exhaust with Stillen TD Catback exhaust, alone will take away over 30 lbs worth of weight and you will feel it on the steering wheel when you drive.

[kmckis1029]

jackco3:

yeah i know...but im leaning toward a Tanabe MEDALION TOURING exhaust... but true dual just has more bragging rights... just dont want any drone... either one will cut weight on the G

Sentientbydesign:

i want just another set of 17s... maybe(big maybe) 18 inch alluminum rims... i want lighter more than style... but yeah they will be less durable... i read the rim and tire is like 27lbs... i want to drop by 10-15lbs on each tire...

[tollboothwilley]

The nismo 19's are freakin light

check those out

[Jacko3]

Nismo 19s is my dream wheels. I just love Nismo wheels--they look really nice. But they are darn expensive.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

You can often get some Gram Lights on the tire rack at a discout. They can be extremely lightweight wheels to consider. 11lbs +

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Oh, sorry, just checked, I think you'll find some lighter Tracklites, enkeis, on the tire rack, and I didn't see any discounts

[ldstang50]

Thanks for the history lesson. I still want one. I was referring to the older generation Evos for the sum 3k lbs weight. Wikipedia showed the first gen weighing in under 2800lbs.

I didn't mean to come off as a d!ck or know it all, but my Evo used to be my baby so I am (or was) up to date with them.Evo III's are my fav, soon followed by the Tommy Makinnen edition Evo VI's

[C-Kwik]

i want just another set of 17s... maybe(big maybe) 18 inch alluminum rims... i want lighter more than style... but yeah they will be less durable... i read the rim and tire is like 27lbs... i want to drop by 10-15lbs on each tire...

Unlikely. The weight of the OE tire size for the 17 inch wheels are around 27 lbs by themselves depending on which tire you look at. You might be able to save a couple of lbs here at most. The wheels could save some more, but even a 10 lbs savings would be a lot in a 17 inch size. The G35 is a heavier car so make sure the sheel you get will handle it. Jumping on the lightest wheel you can find may not be the smartest thing to do. Wheels do flex under load. Too much distortion could affect how the tire interacts with the road.

That said, to realize gains by saving weight in the wheels and tires is easier than with reducing sprung mass. The force required to accelerate your car in a straight line is pretty straight forward. But with wheels, you not only accelerate them in the forward direction. But you also have to provide them with rotational acceleration which requires additional force. So reducing the weight of your wheels and tires not only reduces the total mass to be accelerated in the direction of travel, but it also reduces the mass that has to be rotationally accelerated. So pound for pound, reducing weight in the wheels and tires are more effective than reducing mass elsewhere in terms of acceleration. Obviously, the more you can save in weight there, the better, but you're not going to find much savings in tires and you don't want to compromise strength in the wheels to save a few pounds.

[Sentientbydesign]

I didn't mean to come off as a d!ck or know it all, but my Evo used to be my baby so I am (or was) up to date with them.Evo III's are my fav, soon followed by the Tommy Makinnen edition Evo VI's

I meant my comment sincerely. It's nice talking to someone who really knows their cars and how it's "evolved"

Unlikely. The weight of the OE tire size for the 17 inch wheels are around 27 lbs by themselves depending on which tire you look at. You might be able to save a couple of lbs here at most. The wheels could save some more, but even a 10 lbs savings would be a lot in a 17 inch size. The G35 is a heavier car so make sure the sheel you get will handle it. Jumping on the lightest wheel you can find may not be the smartest thing to do. Wheels do flex under load. Too much distortion could affect how the tire interacts with the road.

That said, to realize gains by saving weight in the wheels and tires is easier than with reducing sprung mass. The force required to accelerate your car in a straight line is pretty straight forward. But with wheels, you not only accelerate them in the forward direction. But you also have to provide them with rotational acceleration which requires additional force. So reducing the weight of your wheels and tires not only reduces the total mass to be accelerated in the direction of travel, but it also reduces the mass that has to be rotationally accelerated. So pound for pound, reducing weight in the wheels and tires are more effective than reducing mass elsewhere in terms of acceleration. Obviously, the more you can save in weight there, the better, but you're not going to find much savings in tires and you don't want to compromise strength in the wheels to save a few pounds.

I agree with most of that, but I will say I've seen upwards of a 5lb weight difference between comparably sized tires. 20lbs of rotating weight isn't too shabby considering it's distance from the torque arm is longer than the rim itself.

For wheels, I'd say look into forged 17s for maximum weight savings. Magnesium is also an option, but is very pricey.

[C-Kwik]

I agree with most of that, but I will say I've seen upwards of a 5lb weight difference between comparably sized tires. 20lbs of rotating weight isn't too shabby considering it's distance from the torque arm is longer than the rim itself..

Yeah, the moment of mass around the axis of rotation is actually what matters, but unless someone wants specific knowledge about it, I'd say leave it out of the equation. It could end up being a hugely complicated discussion. Not that it would deter me. Perhaps a simple way to put it though is to say that pound for pound, removing mass from the wheels and tires is better than removing it ffrom the rest of the car. And removing weight from the tires is better than removing it from the wheels. But a small disclaimer is that some tires are heavier to provide a more rigid structure. This can make a difference at the handling limits.

For wheels, I'd say look into forged 17s for maximum weight savings. Magnesium is also an option, but is very pricey.

I recall years ago at SEMA, a friend of mine who worked for Volk at the time threw one of their magnesium wheels to me as I was walking up to the booth. I nearly freaked out until I caught it. I can't recall what he said the weight was, but it was super light. I believe it was only 15" though. Either way, it was pretty easy to hold balanced on one finger. They bend pretty easy (from impacts) though is what he told me. Pretty much a track only wheel.