Lighting source

[StarPD]

Another member here posted a link to a web site regarding lighting. I went there and the owner hooked me up with high power halogen infra-red high beam bulbs for my '05 Q45. Here is his reply to my inquiry:

<Replace the existing 9005 bulbs with 9011. The new bulbs are not sometinted or overwattage version of 9005, but rather employ a relatively newtechnology called HIR, Halogen Infrared. The mechanical dimensions of thebulb are all virtually identical to the 9005, but the bulb glass isspherical instead of tubular, with the sphere centered around thefilament. There is a "Durable IR Reflective" coating on the sphericalglass. Infrared = heat, so the coating causes heat to be reflected back tothe filament at the center of the sphere. This causes the filament tobecome much hotter (producing more light) than it can by passingelectricity through it, *without* the shorter life or greater heatproduction that comes with overwattage bulbs (to say nothing ofoverwattage bulbs' incompatibility with stock wiring.)

Here's the comparison:

stock: 9005, 12.8V, 65W, 1700 lumens, 320 hourscompare: 9005+50, 12.8V, 55W, 1830 lumens, 175 hoursnew: HIR1, 12.8V, 65W, 2530 lumens, 320 hours

These bulbs are spendy - $27/ea - but their cost is worth considering incontext: Any number of companies will charge you more than this for atarted-up 9005 with blue colored glass (PIAA and Sylvania Silverstar cometo mind) that doesn't produce more light and has a very short lifespan.

The HIR bulbs have a double-wide top ear on the plastic bulb base, this isto comply with the law requiring different bulbs to have different bases.The extra-wide plastic top ear is easily trimmed or filed to make the bulbfit your headlamp's bulb receptacle. Once that's done, they go directlyinto the headlamp, and the existing sockets snap on.>

I bought a pair and am having them installed Wednesday 5-23. I'll report here as soon as I can try them out at night.

This guy really knows his stuff, and only sells top grade merchandise. The 9011s I got from him are by Toshiba Lighting. Here's a link to his excellent web site for much more information on automotive lighting. It has a wealth of information on all aspects of automotive lighting, including full specs on most autmotive bulbs:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

Check out his input to NHTSA at his site to see how deeply he is involved in lighting, and the depth of his knowledge. He is SMART!!!!

I have no connection with him beyond being a customer.

[Skibane]

Quote »This causes the filament to become much hotter (producing more light) than it can by passing electricity through it, *without* the shorter life or greater heat production that comes with overwattage bulbs.[/quote]The increase in lumen output looks VERY impressive, but his explanation doesn't sound quite right.

Heat is heat.

With no other changes, simply running the filament hotter - regardles of whether it's due to higher wattage or improved heat retention - will reduce its lifespan. Perhaps there is something else going on here (i.e., some other modification to the filament material, envelope, surrounding gas, etc.)?

Quote »I bought a pair and am having them installed Wednesday 5-23. I'll report here as soon as I can try them out at night.[/quote]How about installing just ONE of them, so that you can do a quick comparison with the original bulb? (i.e., use a piece of cardboard to cover the high beam that has the new 9011 bulb, note the light output, and then repeat the test with the other, original-bulb high beam covered instead).
Modified by Skibane at 7:02 PM 5/20/2007

[StarPD]

The increase in lumen output looks VERY impressive, but his explanation doesn't sound quite right.

Heat is heat.

With no other changes, simply running the filament hotter - regardles of whether it's due to higher wattage or improved heat retention - will reduce its lifespan. Perhaps there is something else going on here (i.e., some other modification to the filament material, envelope, surrounding gas, etc.)?

How about installing just ONE of them, so that you can do a quick comparison with the original bulb? (i.e., use a piece of cardboard to cover the high beam that has the new 9011 bulb, note the light output, and then repeat the test with the other, original-bulb high beam covered instead).

Modified by Skibane at 7:02 PM 5/20/2007

I suspect that simply retaining and using the infra-red aspect to create a hotter environment results in more light than just passing more electricity through the filament might, much like using a halogen atmosphere allows more heat to be used in a conventional halogen bulb by redepositing the vaporized filament material back onto the filament rather than on the envelope. Not sure of the physics involved in the difference in heating the filament by passng electricity through the filament as opposed to creating a hotter environment, but that might explain it better.

One thing I do know is that if one studies his NHTSA document, it's clear that he does know his stuff.

Replacing ony one bulb would be a good test, but since I can't do the work involved in changing bulbs myself, I have to pay the dealer to do it, and two trips for that would be inconvenient. My '94 Q45t was easy to change bulbs on, since the only difficulty was removing the plastic shields over the light assembly, a 5 minute job. I put 100/80 watt bulbs in it, and it made a big difference. After driving it that way, despite the HID low beams, which are great, I noticed the reduction in light range on high beams in my '05. The '05 requires battery removal and MAF removal, to change high beam bulbs, more than I care to mess with.

I'm having the bulbs replaced Wednesday, and will go to church that evening, so I should be able to tell how much difference there is, and will report on it.

[StarPD]

Here is Harison Toshiba's info on this process:

ProductsAutomotive Forward Lighting

Automotive Forward Lighting "TOSHIBA" Halogen Forward-lighting Bulb with IR-Reflective Films

HIR Series

What is "HIR"?It is acronymized for Halogen-lamp with Infrared Reflective-films, which can reflect Infrared radiation at its glass surface formed with vapor-deposited films.

[Principle of Brightness Increase] HIR lamp has an advanced optic interference multilayer film vapor-deposited many times, which blocks IR (Infrared Radiation) in the glass envelope and allows visible light to go through the film.

When generated lights at the filament coil reaches this multilayer film, its infrared radiation can be blocked at "advanced optic interference multilayer film," and reheat the filament coil.

The glass envelope is formed in anomalistic rounded shape in order to efficiently take Infrared radiation back to the filament coil.

By reheating the filament coil with IR discarded for visible auto-lighting purpose, these IR-reflective films are more than double the brightness while still maintaining its wattage.

For OEM Genuine Parts

"HIR2" for OEM

For OEM Genuine Parts customers, HIR1 (ECE approved), HIR2 (ECE approved), and White-colored HB3 (ECE approved) are available.

Characteristics, HIR LampAcquires more-whitish lights by super-efficiencyImproves reliability with hard glass materialRelay harness unnecessaryEnables coexistence with resin lens

HIR are also available for consumer market.Please review distinctive visibility for night driving.

Performance Comparison (with in-house products) Conventional High-efficient HIR Super Halogen Wattage 58 61 58 Brightness Equivalent of 58W Equivalent of 85W Equivalent of 135W Go here for complete web page with data and pictures on HIR bulbs:

http://www.harison.co.jp/pro/head/index_e.html

[Skibane]

So, what's the verdict?

[StarPD]

So, what's the verdict?

It's staying light out too late this time of year to try them. When I got out of church Wednesday evening, it was still sunny. I don't like to start my car unless I'm going to run it long enough to fully warm up the oil, so I don't want to just start it up later at night to just make a short run in the neighborhood to try them out. Guess I'll have to go to the parking garage in the mall to try them out. I promise I'll report back as soon as I can. I won't forget, as I'm anxious myself to see how they work.

[StarPD]

So, what's the verdict?

Okay, in one word, the verdict is "okay". Not great, not bad, just okay.

An explanation is in order, along with background to keep it all in context. It's a long read, but necessary to fully explain it.

I have for many years driven extremely fast cars the way they were built to be driven, that is, at or near maximum capability. Much of that driving was at night. The ability to see far enough ahead to stop from speeds in excess of 150 MPH is critical to survival. That distance is measured in many hundreds of yards. Jet aircraft have landing speeds over 135 MPH, hence need extremely bright long range landing lights. I used to use TWO pairs of them, one pair @200,000 candlepower each in place of standard high beams, and one pair @ 290,000 candlepower each as auxiliary supplemental lights. Both had very tight beams to reach out a long way. The high beams were adjusted to converge on the road at maximum range. The auxiliaries were adjusted to converge approximately 3' above the road at maximum range. With these lights, I regularly ran 150 MPH plus and felt safe doing so (there was NO traffic when I did this, and it was only done on good well known roads).

Fast forward: When I got my '94 Q45t, I replaced the high beams with 100 watt halogen bulbs. Thanks to the beam focus, they reached out pretty well. Nowhere near what my old aircraft landing lights did, but considerably better than the stock bulbs. I estimated they were good for driving around 110 MPH at night, maybe a little more, possibly 120 in good weather.

Fast forward once again. Upon driving my new to me 2005 Q45 at night, I was duly impressed with the xenon low beams. The beam pattern and light output illuminates the side of the road as well as the pavement quite a long way. I estimate them to be good for approximately 65 mph, quite fast for low beams. The high beams were disappointing though. Stock high beams didn't extend the range much more than about 5 to 10 mph worth, or maybe 75 MPH.

I finally had a chance to test the new HIR 9011 Halogen Infra Red bulbs. Unfortunately, it was a Saturday night, and everywhere I went there was too much ambient lighting from street lights and businesses, and traffic was so heavy it precluded much use of the high beams except for a few short intervals. High ambient light reduces the perceived light from automotive lights, so my perceptions were a little skewed. I will of course try again at another time when conditions are more suitable for testing.

My impression of the lighting on the F50 so far is this: Low beam performance is superb, the best I've ever seen. I feel however that the reflectors for the high beams is designed to produce high light dispersion, to allow adequate side-lighting and to reduce loss of beam upon traversing dips and rises. In other words, the light is spread out in all directions rather than being focused into a tight beam that reaches out. In fact, the effect is almost as if the high beams are aimed outward from the centerline of the car, rather than converging at maximum range, as they should be.

Accordingly, the irrefutable increase in light output from the new HIR bulbs isn't able to extend the range as greatly as it might, and in my book, should. Total perceived light is increased by approximately 25 to 30%, but it just doesn't extend out like it might with a better reflector design.

Unfortunately, increasing the light output enough to improve range considerably with the existing headlamp assembly would probably create enough heat to melt the plastic lens and reflector. Even so, because of the high dispersion, the high near-brightness would likely obscure the improvement in long range lighting at night due to the eye's function at night.

I break down visual range at night into three groups, near, intermediate, and distant. Near and distant have only one value, but intermediate has three; intermediate near, intermediate medium, and intermediate far.

Stock high beams have moderate intermediate near, fair intermediate medium, poor intermediate far, and no distant. Max safe speed 75 to 80 MPH.

HIR bulbs have almost 50% increase in light output, but because of the reflector design on the F50, maybe 25% is enjoyed by the driver, thanks to the high degree of light dispersion. Accordingly, I rate the lights with the HIR bulbs this way:Good intermediate near , moderate intermediate medium, fair intermediate far, and poor distant. I rate max safe speed approximately 95 MPH.

So, after this admittedly long read, what's the bottom line?I believe the HIR 9011 bulbs are a good value considering the parameters they are forced to operate in. I know of no other bulb that will safely provide more or better high speed lighting, even though the limit of speed at night with them isn't as high as it might be with a car that had better reflector design. In other words, they're as good as you're going to get with the stock headlamp assembly.

The only workaround for this would be to install auxiliary lamps on the front end, possibly alongside or even in place of the fog lamps. They would preferably be at least 100 watt Halogen, with fairly tightly focused beams, and of course properly wired with minimum 12 gauge wire and powered through a relay. A little research might find either a good compact high power driving light, maybe even one that uses an HID bulb, that would fit in the fog light openings or could be easily installed alongside of them. If anyone has done such a mod, I'd dearly love to hear about it. If anyone who is interested in improving the safe top speed of an F50 beyond 100 MPH has the inclination, time, money, and ability to experiment with auxiliary driving lamps, I suspect that others in this forum might appreciate the input as much as I would.

In closing, if you drive an F 50 and do much night driving at high speeds, I strongly urge you to replace your high beams with the HIR 9011 bulbs, and to limit your night time speeds even with them to below 100 MPH.

[sijoko]

Okay, in one word, the verdict is "okay". Not great, not bad, just okay.

An explanation is in order, along with background to keep it all in context. It's a long read, but necessary to fully explain it.

I have for many years driven extremely fast cars the way they were built to be driven, that is, at or near maximum capability. Much of that driving was at night. The ability to see far enough ahead to stop from speeds in excess of 150 MPH is critical to survival. That distance is measured in many hundreds of yards. Jet aircraft have landing speeds over 135 MPH, hence need extremely bright long range landing lights. I used to use TWO pairs of them, one pair @200,000 candlepower each in place of standard high beams, and one pair @ 290,000 candlepower each as auxiliary supplemental lights. Both had very tight beams to reach out a long way. The high beams were adjusted to converge on the road at maximum range. The auxiliaries were adjusted to converge approximately 3' above the road at maximum range. With these lights, I regularly ran 150 MPH plus and felt safe doing so (there was NO traffic when I did this, and it was only done on good well known roads).

Fast forward: When I got my '94 Q45t, I replaced the high beams with 100 watt halogen bulbs. Thanks to the beam focus, they reached out pretty well. Nowhere near what my old aircraft landing lights did, but considerably better than the stock bulbs. I estimated they were good for driving around 110 MPH at night, maybe a little more, possibly 120 in good weather.

Fast forward once again. Upon driving my new to me 2005 Q45 at night, I was duly impressed with the xenon low beams. The beam pattern and light output illuminates the side of the road as well as the pavement quite a long way. I estimate them to be good for approximately 65 mph, quite fast for low beams. The high beams were disappointing though. Stock high beams didn't extend the range much more than about 5 to 10 mph worth, or maybe 75 MPH.

I finally had a chance to test the new HIR 9011 Halogen Infra Red bulbs. Unfortunately, it was a Saturday night, and everywhere I went there was too much ambient lighting from street lights and businesses, and traffic was so heavy it precluded much use of the high beams except for a few short intervals. High ambient light reduces the perceived light from automotive lights, so my perceptions were a little skewed. I will of course try again at another time when conditions are more suitable for testing.

My impression of the lighting on the F50 so far is this: Low beam performance is superb, the best I've ever seen. I feel however that the reflectors for the high beams is designed to produce high light dispersion, to allow adequate side-lighting and to reduce loss of beam upon traversing dips and rises. In other words, the light is spread out in all directions rather than being focused into a tight beam that reaches out. In fact, the effect is almost as if the high beams are aimed outward from the centerline of the car, rather than converging at maximum range, as they should be.

Accordingly, the irrefutable increase in light output from the new HIR bulbs isn't able to extend the range as greatly as it might, and in my book, should. Total perceived light is increased by approximately 25 to 30%, but it just doesn't extend out like it might with a better reflector design.

Unfortunately, increasing the light output enough to improve range considerably with the existing headlamp assembly would probably create enough heat to melt the plastic lens and reflector. Even so, because of the high dispersion, the high near-brightness would likely obscure the improvement in long range lighting at night due to the eye's function at night.

I break down visual range at night into three groups, near, intermediate, and distant. Near and distant have only one value, but intermediate has three; intermediate near, intermediate medium, and intermediate far.

Stock high beams have moderate intermediate near, fair intermediate medium, poor intermediate far, and no distant. Max safe speed 75 to 80 MPH.

HIR bulbs have almost 50% increase in light output, but because of the reflector design on the F50, maybe 25% is enjoyed by the driver, thanks to the high degree of light dispersion. Accordingly, I rate the lights with the HIR bulbs this way:Good intermediate near , moderate intermediate medium, fair intermediate far, and poor distant. I rate max safe speed approximately 95 MPH.

So, after this admittedly long read, what's the bottom line?I believe the HIR 9011 bulbs are a good value considering the parameters they are forced to operate in. I know of no other bulb that will safely provide more or better high speed lighting, even though the limit of speed at night with them isn't as high as it might be with a car that had better reflector design. In other words, they're as good as you're going to get with the stock headlamp assembly.

The only workaround for this would be to install auxiliary lamps on the front end, possibly alongside or even in place of the fog lamps. They would preferably be at least 100 watt Halogen, with fairly tightly focused beams, and of course properly wired with minimum 12 gauge wire and powered through a relay. A little research might find either a good compact high power driving light, maybe even one that uses an HID bulb, that would fit in the fog light openings or could be easily installed alongside of them. If anyone has done such a mod, I'd dearly love to hear about it. If anyone who is interested in improving the safe top speed of an F50 beyond 100 MPH has the inclination, time, money, and ability to experiment with auxiliary driving lamps, I suspect that others in this forum might appreciate the input as much as I would.

In closing, if you drive an F 50 and do much night driving at high speeds, I strongly urge you to replace your high beams with the HIR 9011 bulbs, and to limit your night time speeds even with them to below 100 MPH.

George, thanks for the write-up on your experience with the HIR bulbs. I did some research on them after reading your initial post. I like the idea of increased light output at the same wattage and with no increase in bulb temperature. I read at one site that the actual increase in light output (lumens) was closer to 75% which is outstanding. But in the end, the reflector housing has a lot to do with how well the bulbs perform in the car.



I have Eagle Eye HID driving lights on my 94 Q that allow me to drive safely at high speeds. I've had them on the car for almost 5 years. Originally bought through the JC Whitney catalog. I would say that you can't go wrong with a good set of HID driving lights to replace the factory fogs.

[StarPD]

George, thanks for the write-up on your experience with the HIR bulbs. I did some research on them after reading your initial post. I like the idea of increased light output at the same wattage and with no increase in bulb temperature. I read at one site that the actual increase in light output (lumens) was closer to 75% which is outstanding. But in the end, the reflector housing has a lot to do with how well the bulbs perform in the car.



I have Eagle Eye HID driving lights on my 94 Q that allow me to drive safely at high speeds. I've had them on the car for almost 5 years. Originally bought through the JC Whitney catalog. I would say that you can't go wrong with a good set of HID driving lights to replace the factory fogs.

Interesting.Here's what Daniel has to say about thatm specifically mounting height:*************************************************On Sun, 27 May 2007, gpharris wrote:

> Thank you Daniel.> And thanks for the info on the driving light, but I can't read German. Is it > available in English?

I can dig for it, but the important parts are the dimensions and the beam diagram.

> It looks interesting. I wonder if it can be fitted into the fog light> opening in my car (2005 Infiniti Q45).

Too low -- they need to be up at headlamp height.

> I understand about the driving light mounting height, but if you look> carefully at an Infiniti Q45 made after 2004, you'll see why mounting at> headlight height won't work. As much as I don't like low mounted driving> lights, on this car, I have little choice. There just is nowhere else to> put them.

You'll have to find a way. Low-mount driving lamps are useless.**********************************

For all Daniel's expertise, I'm not sure I agree fully with him. I've seen rally cars that have long-range driving lights roof mounted, but also low mounted. I think some is better than none. Certainly low mounted lights are not as desirable as high mounted ones, but I can't see how they would be totally useless. The Auxiliary 290,000 cp lights on my SS Impalas and Corvettes were all low mounted, and they extended visual range at night considerably. Of course, I already had the 200,000 cp lights in the high beam receptacles too.

Were your HID lights mounted in the fog light receptacles on your G50, and if so, how much did they help?

[sijoko]

I installed the HID lights in the same spot as the useless factory fog lights. The driving lights are wired up to turn on using the fog light switch on the stalk. As far as illumination, it is like driving at daytime. I've got the lights adjusted as high as possible and they work very well.

[StarPD]

I installed the HID lights in the same spot as the useless factory fog lights. The driving lights are wired up to turn on using the fog light switch on the stalk. As far as illumination, it is like driving at daytime. I've got the lights adjusted as high as possible and they work very well.

Thanks sijoko.I think I may do something similar. I'm so used to having really good lighting at night I have to do what I can to be able to see well then. Now I just have to find lights that will fit in the fog light receptacles relatively easily.

Take care.

[QE86]

I got my HID from http://www.jrtlighting.com they have a competitive pricing and good service.

[3Q Jay]

Anyone tried these HIRs for our low beams?pricey.

http://www.automotivelightingu...=1398

[maxnix]

The increase in lumen output looks VERY impressive, but his explanation doesn't sound quite right.

Heat is heat.

Yes, and infrared is invisible to the human eye. Hmmm......

[SynisterQ]

Anyone tried these HIRs for our low beams?pricey.

http://www.automotivelightingu...=1398

I believe Sylvania Silverstar Ultras are $60 or more, so that is close to the HIR bulbs for much better performance.