Lexus is afraid of the M

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louiegz
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Lexus is afraid of the M

Postby louiegz » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:59 am

I received an information package from Lexus about the new GS and there was a pamphlet with a comparison of different makes of cars. They didn’t include the M in the comparison. Do you think Lexus thinks they were beat on this one? Less horsepower and more money, who’d want to buy the GS?







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Re: Lexus is afraid of the M (louiegz)

Postby gniknave » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:06 am

louiegz wrote:who’d want to buy the GS?


The ones that never drove the M

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Postby Fenvy » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:08 am

I think it's uncomparable.. I could be wrong but it seems the g5 is more for lexuary over performance (but still a pretty good performance)

the m, I think, are more performance over luxary

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Postby gniknave » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:15 am

What has me wondering is why Lexus didn't introduce their new 3.5 Liter in the GS instead of the new IS. Having a 3.0 in much larger sedan, but a 3.5 in a smaller sedan doesn't make much sense to me, especially since you'd be paying much more for the GS300.

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Postby Fenvy » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:19 am

that's not the market they're in

hence the name: lexus (lexuary)

when you think of lexus, do you ever think of performance? not me

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Postby szh » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:18 pm

When the GS400 was first released, I think it caught a lot of people by surprise for its performance characteristics. I almost considered getting one years ago.

But, I agree, the recent introductions have been quite bland. I would much rather have my current 2003 M45!

Z

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Postby Jesda » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:24 pm

The Cadillac STS and Infiniti M are beating the bloody hell out of Lexus. The M sold about 2500 last month and the STS sold 3720.

HOWEVER, the M is flying off showroom floors without incentives!

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Postby DAEDALUS » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:38 pm

Are there good incentives for the Caddy? Didn't think the employee discount applied. Where can I find sales numbers for L****?

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Postby Jesda » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:29 am

The employee discount applies to the entire Cadillac line except for the $76,000 XLR roadster, so you can take home a new STS for $37k. The program seems to be moving units, boosting GM's market share to 30%, but they aren't making a dime (1.2 bill loss this qtr).

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Re: (DAEDALUS)

Postby Jesda » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:34 am

DAEDALUS wrote:Didn't think the employee discount applied. Where can I find sales numbers for L****?
I cant find a clearly organized chart, but apparently Lexus is still the top-selling luxury brand in the US, a title it took from Cadillac at the turn of the century.

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Re: (Jesda)

Postby szh » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:56 am

Jesda wrote:I cant find a clearly organized chart, but apparently Lexus is still the top-selling luxury brand in the US, a title it took from Cadillac at the turn of the century.
Hmmm ... not to disbelieve, but I see a lot more Mercedes Benz's around here than Lexus. That may, however, be due to the fact that there is an MB dealer about three miles from my house - the closest car dealer of any kind!

Seriously, the whole Bay Area seems to have a lot more MB's than I would expect, and the numbers seems to have jumped in the past two to three years. Is this not a national phenomenon?

Z

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Re: (szhosain)

Postby maxnix » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:55 am

szhosain wrote:When the GS400 was first released, I think it caught a lot of people by surprise for its performance characteristics. I almost considered getting one years ago.

Z
Yeah, I test drove a used 1998 GS400 and thought it was a really great RWD Accord.

The dealer thought it was worth a lot more than I did.

M45, baby! Both are better than the contemporary GS model.

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Re: (maxnix)

Postby szh » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:12 pm

maxnix wrote:Yeah, I test drove a used 1998 GS400 and thought it was a really great RWD Accord.
Yeah, I test drove one back in 1998 sometime and was quite pleasantly surprised. Anyway, I decided to trade my 1991 in for a 1995 (used) ... which, in hindsight, turned out to be a mistake (it was a lease return, and I was naive in thinking the car had been maintained.)
maxnix wrote:M45, baby! Both are better than the contemporary GS model.
Heartily agreed! I am very happy with my 2003 M45, even though it does not compare to the 2006!

Z

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Re: (szhosain)

Postby gniknave » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:45 pm

Yeah I do notice a lot more Mercedes on the road in the Bay Area than Lexus'. But it's a little different depending on where you are. Back home in Indiana you'll see a lot more Caddy's and then some Lexus'. Mercedes is pretty rare as is BMW out there.

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Re: (Ev_eezy)

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:14 pm

For the first time in the history of Lexus, they have made an attractive looking car.Too bad under it's gorgeous skin it's still an overpriced rwd Camry.

It's like having Anna Nicole Smith disguised as Monica Bellucci. Sure, it's great to look at, but you don't want to find yourself locked in a room with it.
Ev_eezy wrote:doesn't make much sense to me
Those six words sum up the entirety of Toyota and Lexus's existence for me.

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Postby szh » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:02 am

ROFL! A funny analogy!

Seriously, even though Mercedes Benz's seem to be proliferating in the Bay Area, I would not get one. Their reliability is a big concern! And, they are not unique - that is one of my reasons for having the 2003 M45. It is instantly recognizable on the road (yes, an older design, but very nice) and rare, so when you do see one, it brings a sense of accomplishment: "Yeah, I saw another M45 on the road today!"

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Re: (szhosain)

Postby OneOfOne » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:54 pm

lexus is number one in sales when taken as a whole. this is solely due to the rx. lexus is 3rd I believe when just cars are involved.

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Re: (MinisterofDOOM)

Postby maxnix » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:21 am

MinisterofDOOM wrote:Too bad under it's gorgeous skin it's still an overpriced rwd Camry.
Actually, it is a RWD Avalon.

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Re: (Dozer42)

Postby maxnix » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:08 pm

Dozer42 wrote:Picked up an M45 Sport for my wife on Saturday, and it's been a blast to drive. In my opinion it absolutely crushes the Lexus GS in every single regard except one, and that's customer service.
Sadly, some one dealer market dealers are not up to snuff.

Infiniti does not have all the geegaws of a McDonalds playroom, but the good ones have great service, attitude, and hospitality. Save the entertainment for somewhere else as I don't want to pay for it.

Enjoy your M. Autoweek thinks the same as you do.

http://www.autoweek.com/articl...02927

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Postby Jesda » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 am

I fully agree with the comments here about the experience at Lexus dealers. You get a premium feel for the brand the moment you drive up to the lot. The lavishly appointed waiting rooms (I've spent time with my stepdad waiting for oil changes) have large-screen TVs, free soda, juice, coffee, and a total ambience of luxury.

Still, the guy who went to the Infiniti dealer and bought a Coke and Doritos from a vending machine got the better car for a lower price. And his sales and service staff are likely just as honest and courteous.

I always think of Infiniti owners as an independent bunch, not so easily swayed by shallow gimmicks.

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Re: (Dozer42)

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:25 am

Dozer42 wrote:Free coffee, espresso, soft drinks, cookies, sandwiches, etc...And this is even before becoming a customer!

Then check out their completely seperate service facility about 5 miles away. The garage floor is also tiled, and absolutely spotless. They've got 32 bays equipped with lifts, and over 100 loaner cars.

When mine needed warranty work or major service, I'd just give them a call and they'd drop off a loaner car and pick mine up. They'd do the work, detail the car completely, and drop mine off. (The maintenance certainly was NOT cheap though!)

At the service facility they have all the free drinks, cookies, PCs set up with internet connections, a big-screen TV, an area for the kids, etc.
Short of the loaner cars and the kids area, my NISSAN--not Infiniti, just Nissan--dealer does ALL of that. Fewer bays, too, but there's no room for any more. All that for the owner of a privately traded car that was purchased there brand new 13 years ago. Lexus impresses people with that because people have crappy expectations. It should be standard fare. I guess we have better than normal dealerships around here--but even the DODGE dealerships do that stuff.

As for Lexus' AMG killers...yeah. Right. And I'm a bird with titanium feathers.Dropping a high output motor in a car does not automatically make it a supercar. There is so much more to it than that that Toyta/Lexus are completely incapable of grasping anymore. They'll never get powerbands, shift points, gear ratios, suspension setups, drag coefficients, downforce, or any other supercar essentials down. They'll make a big-power lux barge and pass it off as an AMG beater. Anyone really in the market for an AMG beater will know what the Lexus is not. Any poseurs in the market for the statement that ownint an AMG beater will make to the neighbors will snatch it up and believe they've got the best car in the world. And that's all Lexus needs.

If our Dodge dealers here are on par with your Lexus dealers...I REALLY need to set foot inside a Lexus dealer here. Wait...no. No I don't. I'll go to the Caddy dealership. At least there are cars there I give a damn about.

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Re: (Dozer42)

Postby Jesda » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:25 am

Dozer42 wrote:I guess I'm just 'shallow' and stupid because I fall for these gimmicks. Pretty dumb of me to like having a good dealer who actually takes care of me.


I was paying you a compliment because you bought the Infiniti anyway. If you read my post, you'll see that I agreed with you. Sheesh. And I've been crack-free for 23 years. Woohoo!

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Re: (Dozer42)

Postby Jesda » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:01 am

Dozer42 wrote:That's what you call a compliment? That I bought the Infiniti anyway, even though I was shallow enough to fall for Lexus' gimmicks before?

Keep your compliments to yourself.

Your remark was very snobbish. Somehow you think you're smarter than other car owners because of your Infiniti? That you weren't swayed by shallow gimmicks.

That's extremely insulting. Despite what you imply, Lexus owners aren't stupid people.

Don't paint me with that same brush thanks. I don't feel I'm better or smarter than everyone else for buying an Infiniti, I just bought it because it was a good car that beat the competition.
Apparently Ryan has siblings.

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Postby gniknave » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:20 am

In my opinion Infiniti and Lexus' service are dead even. There are some Lexus dealers that will better Infiniti dealers in service just like there are Infiniti dealers that will better Lexus dealers in service. I agree that Lexus of Stevens Creek is probably one of the best -- if not the best automovtive dealership of any kind in the Bay Area. Look at how much money they've spent to plug all of those bells and whistles in there though.

The some dealers lack the space and the budget to make things happen like Lexus of Stevens Creek. Have you ever been to Lexus of Concord? Boy would you be disappointed! Let'snot even get started on Coliseum Lexus in Oakland! I won't be biased though, I know of one Infiniti dealer in the Bay Area that you want to stay the heck away from (except for their parts department), but since I work for Infiniti I won't mention the name.

The training program for both Lexus and Infiniti is nearly identical. The incentives from the factory for an individual to keep a high csi (customer satisfaction) are nearly identical. This is the reason why they're consistently so close together on the customer satisfaction charts every year.



Dozer I happen to love my 15 year old Q!

BTW Dozer I checked out your site and read through the part about your skydiving. That was some great reading man, I felt I was right there with you


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Re: (Dozer42)

Postby Jesda » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:25 am

Dozer42 wrote:Got it, you're saying you're PMSing?

That would explain the holier-than-thou attitude from a kid with daddy's ancient 12 year old car.

Good luck with that.

I hope that type of attitude isn't representative of most Infiniti drivers.
The Midol is yours for the taking.

It seems apparent that the Lexus crowd is defined by emotionally explosive children whose egos are as fragile as eggshells. Counseling would be more appropriate than vehicle purchasing.

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Re: (Ev_eezy)

Postby Jesda » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:30 am

Ev_eezy wrote:In my opinion Infiniti and Lexus' service are dead even. There are some Lexus dealers that will better Infiniti dealers in service just like there are Infiniti dealers that will better Lexus dealers in service. I agree that Lexus of Stevens Creek is probably one of the best -- if not the best automovtive dealership of any kind in the Bay Area. Look at how much money they've spent to plug all of those bells and whistles in there though.
My belief, based just on observations as a consumer, is that Lexus dealers tend to be more consistently nicer (is that even a valid phrase? ). It seems like a larger number of Infiniti dealers operate as dual Nissan/Infiniti franchises, with amenities, parts availability, and service on par with Toyota and Honda dealers, but lacking a luxury ambience to take it to the next level. I don't doubt that the particular dealerships you've worked at are competitive with Lexus.

I wonder if its the total value for money that pushes Infiniti ahead of Lexus in some surveys?

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Postby szh » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:05 pm

Guys, chill a little! We are all car fanatics, so let's not let minor issues get in the way of enjoying driving the automobiles! What I will ask is that we do not take polarized extreme positions on this subject, since it is never that black-and-white!

Each manufacturer (Infiniti and Lexus and others) has a target market they go after. Each attempts to succeed in that target market with the features and capabilities that they think would make the most sense for those customers.

So, not surprisingly, the typical Infiniti buyers think that Lexus misses the mark and the typical Lexus buyers probably think that Infiniti misses their mark! Am I surprised? No!

Yeah, I would not buy a Lexus because they do not emphasize what I want in a car. However, and this is the important point, I could live with those shortcomings (if I had an LS430 for example) and the right Infiniti were not available.

I suggest that the same is true for Lexus owners!

With regards to dealerships, I think they are closer than we would all like to think. I have seen Infiniti and Lexus and BMW and Acura dealers in the Bay Area - checked them out thoroughly a short while back when looking for a replacement for my wife's Acura - and they are all very similar. That may be representative of the Bay Area perhaps.

To me, having a child care area is not important, but to some, I suppose it could be. My local Infiniti dealer has a wonderful coffee/hot chocolate machine that I use when I visit!

But, what is far more important to me is the fact that the Service Manager I deal with has been there for somewhere near 10 years and knows me well. I get the right care and consideration from him ... and I know it is not unique, since I have seen him interact with other customers in the same way.

That is what counts (for me) and I would be surprised if Lexus did not have similar long-term supporters and similar experiences in their camp!

Z


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